Pavone Anti Abortion Priest
Kate’s article on Father Frank Pavone (below) brought back some old memories and some new thoughts.
When I was with the National Coalition of Abortion Providers, I regularly had conversations with Father Pavone (as well as other pro-life leaders). In addition to our having a few lunches (where we split the tab), I once facilitated his visit to an abortion clinic and he once arranged for me to meet with a group of 30 other priests to talk about the abortion issue. When he came to Washington, D.C. for the annual “March for Life,” Frank would invite me to meet with some of his travelling companions.
My motivation for having these meetings was not necessarily to reach “common ground.” I never really thought that was generally possible. Instead, my goal was to make him and his folks understand more about what drove our doctors to perform abortions and what motivated the women to have abortions. I thought giving them that perspective would make their protestations more “calmer” and it would make them treat women a little more civilly.
The problem was that, after a while, I just felt like I was on display. I talked very candidly about abortion and it always seemed like he (and the others) were just not that interested in learning more about the abortion process and the women who sought abortions. When I met with his priests, I talked for an hour straight, laid out every step of the process, talked about the good stuff and the bad stuff and when I opened it up for questions, the only one asked was “What is George Tiller really like?” They never probed, never argued, never talked about why they opposed abortion.
"Pro Life" March Pictures
Now, ten years or so later, I wonder what I accomplished, if anything.
I still see Father Pavone out there as he continues to rail about the horrors of abortion. As Kate alluded to, he recently has gotten into some hot water lately and, to be honest, I don’t give a damn. I am not out to wish anyone ill will. Meanwhile, there are folks out there who are seeking that elusive common ground but I really wonder if that is possible in light of the caustic ever present conversations that go on when talking about the abortion issue. I really wonder if it’s possible to have a civil conversation anymore about abortion.
Dr. Tiller was murdered in Church by A Christian AntiAbortion Pro Life Terrorist
Just take a peek at the Facebook page “Abortion.com.” It’s a pro-choice site and, yes, the administrator of the site can be a bit caustic at times. But, generally, the tenor of the “discussions” is very unproductive. It’s just folks lobbing bombshells at each other. That’s unfortunate because the administrator, who used to work in the field, is open to any questions about the abortion procedure and process, but, with a few exceptions (like our friend Rogelio), the pro-lifers on the site just like to jump in with a snide or viscous remark, calling all of us pro-choicers “baby killers” or “murderers.” Then they just run away. Wow, that’s some debate! Then there are those who seem intent on trying to bring down the whole site, trolling, spamming, etc. Indeed, recently someone actually threatened the administrator to the point where the FBI is now involved.
Maybe this more caustic “debate” is just reflective of the state of politics in general these days. Whether it is or not, I prefer to stick to my approach. I will try to present the facts about abortion and will answer any question, no matter how squeamish, that is posed to me. It’s a perfect opportunity for a pro-lifer who really wants to think about the issue to – dare I say it – work with the facts. Isn’t that how we should be making our decisions?
I dunno. Maybe I was just wasting my time. Maybe it really just comes down to my bumper sticker versus theirs. Geez, I hope not.
Abortion - Abortion Clinics, Abortion Pill, Abortion Information 
April 22, 2012 at 11:02 am
Pat, I’m sure your lessons on abortion provided the factual information that they used as their platform for propagandizing. Instead of saying the doctor inserts a cannula through the cervix to extract products of conception, they will say something to the effect that the cannula tears the baby apart in a slow agonizing death. They get the procedure correctly then add the drama. In fact, Pavone used to have a collection of videos on You Tube and his PfL site that showed the basics.
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April 23, 2012 at 7:30 am
Pro Lifers are constantly spreading false information and misleading facts.
Why can’t they behave like people that are not terrorists?
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April 22, 2012 at 1:34 pm
Chris Bowers’ new book, “The Republican Brain,” will clarify just why bridging this gap is impossible under the present rules of engagement. The link between reactionaries, Republicans and pro-lifers is quite clear.
If you want to get them to understand why anybody would favor abortion, you have to tax them particularly to provide for children– schools, medical care, social services, welfare; you have to include in any legislation limiting a woman’s right to control her own destiny provisions for them to pay $260,000 for her child’s upbringing; and you have to burden them with the unpaid care of abused, neglected and abandoned children. How many divisions does the Pope have? How many children does Pavone have?
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February 10, 2014 at 9:35 am
c4a8Congratulations, Abby! We Catholics are very proud to be welcoming you as one of us!I feel sorry that Fr. Pavone will not be alwoled to attend your confirmation on Sunday. As you consider and rejoice in what his example has meant to you in your faith journey, though, here’s something that you may find comforting to bear in mind:The Parable of the Talents (Matthew 25: 14-30.In this parable, Jesus teaches us that our special gifts and talents are give to us by God and that we are meant to use them to His greater glory. Nowhere in the parable, however, is there any guarantee that we won’t encounter obstacles to using our God-given gifts and talents in the way He most desires. This is where Fr. Pavone is now attempting to deal with obstacles in fulfilling the special mission that he vowed to God to make his life’s work. Your feelings of deprivation and sadness at not having him present at your confirmation could, if you chose to do so, be offered as a prayer for his swift triumph over those obstacles.I’ll be thinking of you and praying for you on your special day!bb
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April 23, 2012 at 5:30 am
Pat Richards continues the “Fr. Pavone” topic that Kate Ranieri began Wednesday, and Pat, it turns out, has had more extensive dealings with Father than Kate has had. And Pat is not happy.
For one thing, after listening to Pat’s arguments in favor of legal baby killing, Father is seven years later still trying to make that practice illegal. More importantly, the thirty or so “Priests for Life” who listened to Pat’s arguments, hardly responded.
If I were Pat, the priests’ silence would piss me off too. I mean here are all these guys absolutely opposed to what Pat supports, and they sit there quietly? Why? I’ll tell you why. Priests, when challenged, are mute on the topic of feticide because, since the 1950s, they‘ve been mute on the topic of embryocide, feticide’s father. So long as the victims were unseen, they could ignore their murders and the teaching of the Church. But when the victims grew big enough to be seen with the naked eye, the priests were caught. They found it harder to ignore what the Church teaches – that it is diabolical intentionally to kill innocent people.
So, what do they do. Most of them continue to look away. If they get a tough boss, they might say something, but if not, they’ll continue to talk about poverty, kindness, scandal, gossip, education, etc., and ignore the holocaust taking place in front of their eyes.
A few will try to do something, like Fr. Pavone’s priests, but their path is even more difficult: how can they attack feticide effectively when ninety percent of their audience practices or approves of embryocide?
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April 23, 2012 at 7:33 am
That’s not the reason!
The priests were busy thinking about molesting little boys. Their minds were occupied.
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April 23, 2012 at 8:09 am
Fetuses are not people, and they are not innocent. Those are constructs useful to the members of a dysfunctional twelve-step program who call themselves “pro-life.”
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April 23, 2012 at 9:22 am
This post is John Dunkle’s continuation of his legendary (not) histrionics about health care that he doesn’t like. So he pitches a hissy fit once a week online and once a week outside an abortion clinic.
B-O-R-I-N-G
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April 23, 2012 at 8:06 pm
What is the deal with that creepy truck?
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April 24, 2012 at 5:56 am
His purple pimp mobile?
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April 24, 2012 at 9:59 am
What “creepy truck?”. Are we talking about Dunkle?
That meeting with the priests was interesting. One thing that stymied them was that I came out and said “abortion is a form of killing” and that there are some bad abortion providers, etc. I went straight to some of their charges and talked candidly about them. I could see they were dumbfounded when I was just talking honestly. They didn’t expect that.
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April 24, 2012 at 10:26 am
How many of them do you think were pedophiles?
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April 24, 2012 at 2:35 pm
It’s ironic that you and others are frank about abortion and about bad abortion providers. But nowhere is there any outcry against wretched dermatologists or butchers that call themselves urologists or obstetricians who cause permanent brain damage to babies during childbirth. And when the anti abortion cartel whines about the number of “dead babies” due to abortion, there’s hardly a whimper of concern for the women who die during pregnancy or childbirth or who suffer from post partum depression. It seems to me that the anti abortion zealots should drop the prolife label and begin sporting the Fetal Fetish & Friends because that would be more accurate.
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April 24, 2012 at 6:18 pm
WHy are anti Abortion people so dumb?
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February 8, 2014 at 10:11 am
c5cdIt is very disheartening in what Bishop Zurek is doing to Fr. Frank. It is eeinvdt Father Pavone is being used as an instrument of God. Thank you Abby for your letter and sharing this. We as the Catholic Church have to stick together. A family that prays together stays together. We must remember the spiritual warfare battle is between us and the devil. Not between Bishop Zurek and Fr. Frank or us against them . We live in an imperfect community and in an imperfect world. However, we must not let that discourage us to strive to be perfect. Consequently, which means this should not hinder us from eliminating abortion 100%. Every ounce of effort and energy counts as it will be magnified 100x fold by the Holy Spirit. As you go through your confirmation Abby please ask the Holy Spirit to come down and bless you and the church. To enlighten us and light a fire within all of us to do what is right and to God’s will. We must end abortion yesterday. Not now, not tomorrow or in the future. We need a sense of urgency. With that sense of urgency we ask the Holy Spirit to fill us with His grace, patience, understanding, wisdom and knowledge to do great things.Bishop Zurek we humbly ask you do great things within the church not to be envious or jealous of people who do great things. Be the solution and not the problem. Be the shepherd of the church as a bishop should be. God bless and go forth.bb
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April 24, 2012 at 8:59 pm
personally, i wish my anti compatriots were more educated about various abortion procedures.
it drives me nuts when someone screams about babies being burned alive in reference to saline abortions, when that procedure hasn’t been performed routinely in 30 years.
being educated about a matter doesn’t mean one must agree with it. but it is still education rather than ignorance.
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April 24, 2012 at 8:29 pm
Kate, it’s all about them! Their fear of death, their need to be insulated from the knowledge of their own mortality and consequent oblivion, their need to prove to themselves they can overcome their own death, their need to work through their lack of faith in a God who loves and cares for them.
It’s a dysfunctional self-help program, focused on abortion. They cannot tear their gaze away from the horror they envision for themselves. It is a dark thing.
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April 24, 2012 at 6:19 pm
This Pavone guy seems like another typical Pro Lifer nut case . . .
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April 24, 2012 at 8:55 pm
i believe that certain people in each camp can easily have common ground if they choose to seek it.
i have found common ground with many choicers in that we wish that abortion was something to nobody ever had to consider.
we have common ground in believing that anyone facing an unwanted pregnancy deserves compassion, rather than condemnation.
we have common ground in our desire for the abuse and terrorism inflicted upon those who seek abortions, abortion providers and staff to end.
we have common ground in our belief that anti-abortion leaders need to speak out against that abuse and terrorism.
i firmly believe that the common ground is there. it is those who wish to find it that is lacking.
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April 24, 2012 at 9:07 pm
in defense of the priests’ question about dr tiller, i have to admit that i love hearing about him from his friends and colleagues.
i had been praying for him for quite a while before he was murdered, and by studying him and what motivated him, i saw why he was so well loved by those who knew him.
being an anti, many people close to him do not wish to share personal stories about him, and i can understand that.
his life was stolen and they want only to protect his honor and dignity.
it is being on the outside looking in, but i can sure understand it.
so when those who knew and loved him trust me enough to share something about him, i relish it.
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April 25, 2012 at 8:29 am
There are a lot of stories about George, Rogie. I always loved how he would respond to someone who was ranting and raving at him. He would calmly sit back and say “now that’s just bad manners.”
The one thing I’ll never forget is the large wall in his clinic that was adorned with literally hundreds and hundreds of letters from women all over the world thanking him and his staff for being there in their time of need. Very touching…
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April 29, 2012 at 12:53 pm
jajajajaja
i wish i could have gotten a chance to know this man.
those who did know him always speak of the warmth and wit that he showed to his friends and family.
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April 25, 2012 at 10:47 am
Pat, your comments about working with the facts when making decisions resonates with me too! The ONE fact that both sides can agree on is the fact that a fetus is killed. Beyond that, there is little common ground. They have their small world of “facts” based on dogma, faith, pseudo science and anecdotes and our side has facts based on medical/psycho/social and scientific evidence.
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April 27, 2012 at 8:30 am
Actually, Kate, I’ll betcha that a number of pro-choice folks would not agree with your statement that “a fetus is killed.” They would probably say the “pregnancy was terminated.”
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April 27, 2012 at 8:49 am
No, in order to carry through in their mission they would not use “killed.” They would say, “murdered.” The difference is very important to them, and the importance is significant.
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April 25, 2012 at 6:37 pm
Pat, this just from Hullabaloo:
Ms Overton’s right to choose
by digby
This is an interesting strategy:
As states across the country are passing laws to restrict access to abortion, California lawmakers are considering a significant expansion of who would be able to perform the procedure in the state.
Under a bill that passed its first committee hearing Tuesday, nurse practitioners, nurse midwives and physician assistants would be able to perform what is known as an “aspiration” abortion, which is the most common abortion procedure and takes place in the first trimester of a pregnancy.
The current form of the bill, SB1338 by Sen. Christine Kehoe, D-San Diego, would allow for only 41 people in the state, in addition to doctors, who have been through a pilot study on the issue to perform aspiration abortions, but backers say they expect that number to be significantly expanded as the proposal moves forward.
Also on Tuesday, an Assembly committee passed a separate bill that would expand access to birth control by allowing registered nurses to dispense the medication.
“These bills are stark contrasts to what is happening nationally and in too many states across the country,” said Kathy Kneer, president and CEO of Planned Parenthood Affiliates of California, which is backing both measures…
“I’m surprised that supporters of abortion would think this is a good move. They are lessening the medical requirements for someone who can do an abortion,” said Carol Tobias, president of the National Right to Life Committee. “That does nothing to promote safety or to protect women’s health,”
Tobias said the bill, compared with what other states are doing, shows “California is out of step with the rest of the country.”
The last I heard all this was supposed to be left “up to the states” so I don’t think the zealots are in a position to complain.
And for all its “extremism” it’s really just expanding access to a guaranteed constitutional right. Studies have shown that these medical professionals are perfectly capable of dispensing birth control and performing early abortions. The more people who are qualified and licensed to dispense birth control and perform first trimester abortions, the less likely it is that the forced childbirth zealots are able to reduce their availablility. But that won’t stop thezealots from saying otherwise. After all, these are people who lie about everything in service to their “cause.”
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April 27, 2012 at 8:30 am
You gotta love California.
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February 9, 2014 at 2:04 pm
c561Abby,Welcome to the fold! To say we are thrilled to have you would be an uemtrstaeednnt. I was especially struck by your comment: The decision to keep Father Frank in Amarillo is not just detrimental to the pro-life movement. It is also keeping him from doing what he does best bringing people to Christ and to the Catholic Church. Thank you for sharing these beautiful words, and for articulating so clearly an aspect of this situation that has been largely overlooked. Even though I’m a cradle Catholic who deeply loves her Faith, I’m having a hard time understanding in light of the countless post-abortive men and women out there who are desperately in need of help how Fr. Frank’s God-given talents are being best utilized for the good of the entire Body of Christ in his current situation. As you made clear in your letter, Father Frank possesses a unique ability for reaching out to these walking wounded and helping them find the healing they need. All pro-lifers know that next year’s presidential election will be of enormous consequence in charting the course of our nation’s future. Is it just me, or do you also find it odd that he was pulled off the battlefield at such a critical moment?Congratulations many times over, Abby!bb
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February 9, 2014 at 3:44 pm
c4d2Abby,Congratulations and welcome to the Church of Christ!!! I am so sorry that Fr Frank wont be there. He too has been very itterumnnsal in bringing me back to the Catholic Church. My spouse who was once a non practicing Jew also came around because of him. We heard him at a Divine Mercy conference and the rest is history. I don’t think Fr Frank knows about the impact that he made on my life, my families lives and to others like us. It is very nice to know that your life was also touched by this humble servant of God. I continue to pray that Bishop Zurek understands Fr Frank’s importance not just to the pro life movement but the Church. I call the Amarillo Diocese everyday and sometimes even twice a day to get a Fr Frank update and all I get from a Deacon Ashley is read the Amarillo Globe. Anyway, I continue to pray for this diocese and it’s leadership.For what its worth Abby, I truly believe that God loves you so much that he used Fr Frank (a future saint in His Church) as an instrument to bring you back home.God Bless you and the precious babies you protect!We love you,The Anapolous Familybb
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April 23, 2014 at 8:29 am
That’s not just logic. That’s really sensible.
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May 7, 2012 at 10:47 am
0MG! this is s0 wr0ng LMFA0
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May 7, 2012 at 10:48 am
0MFG! i didnt mean that!
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February 10, 2014 at 9:20 pm
c415Congraulations Welcome Home Sister, may we meet in heaven one day.I want to pnolreasly thank you for your LIGHT, and TRUTH. Because of you and others like you, young women are choosing LIFE. I got to see my unborn 20 week old grandaughter for the first time yesterday. So excited to have a new life. Remember to offer that First Holy Communion for Father Frank. Because dear your prayers are very powerful on that most Holy day, may they be taken to the throne of God!Know that God named you ABBY for a reason, nothing happens by chance!The meaning of the name Abby is Father in rejoicing’, so know that the FATHER is indeed rejoicing that you have come home, he will hold you close to his sacred heart on that day! And he holds your family in his hands. Thank you for your book and for standing up for the truth. I will go to Mass and offer it for you! May God guard you with his most holy angels and may all the holy souls intercede for you on your day!Sister n Christ- Cathybb
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