President Obama has indicated that he wants to help the pro-choice and pro-life movement find “common ground” on the issue of abortion. There are lots of cynics out there, from pro-lifers who say they could never agree with a “baby killer” to ardent pro-choicers who distrust anyone who would take away the constitutional right to abortion. Still, the President has persisted and several months ago his office sponsored a telephone conference call with representatives from both sides of the issue. Most participants say they felt that not much was accomplished.
Let me suggest that, if there is one thing that both sides of the debate have in common, it is they want to reduce the number of abortions. And to do that you need to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies. You know the phrase: “every child a wanted child.”
What is the pro-life movement doing to reduce the number of abortions?
First of all, many of them, despite the position of their church, do support birth control. Some of them are reasonable and enlightened enough to understand that people will have sex and if they do they should use birth control. Then there are others, who are a little more dogmatic who say abstinence is the only way – the “Just Say No” crowd. A nice thought, but not very realistic. And, they say, if you have sex and become pregnant, well you’re out of luck. You’re having a baby. Get the shower announcements printed.
Of course, there are the pro-lifers who believe that they stop abortions by “educating” women as they are entering an abortion facility. If they can, they stop the women tell them “the truth about abortion.” If they cannot stop the women, they’ll scream at them at the top of their lungs. I’ve talked to pro-lifers about these tactics and they swear that they have “saved” a lot of “babies.” They tell me about the woman they talked to who suddenly learned exactly what abortion is. And they tell me she went home instead. Of course, they do not realize that that woman probably called a different clinic the next day and had an abortion elsewhere. But that is beside the point.
The general pro-choice movement certainly supports sex education, birth control, etc. which does reduce the number of pregnancies in this country. But I want to talk about the clinics that are listed on the website (www.abortion.com) that sponsors this blog. That website is a directory of clinics that perform abortions and offers other reproductive health services. And I would suggest that they do more to stop abortions than the average pro-life activist.
What most people don’t realize is that when a woman enters one of these clinics to have an abortion, the first thing that happens after filling out the paperwork is a counselor sits down with her and discusses the circumstances that led to her getting pregnant. During that conversation, the counselor will discover whether or not the woman was on birth control. I once attended a session and, when asked what kind of birth control she was on, the woman responded “I use Lady’s Luck.” I asked her what she meant and she replied “I just hope I get lucky and don’t get pregnant.”
The counselor will then spend time trying to determine what form of birth control is best for that woman: the depo-provera shot, birth control pills, an IUD. If it is determined that birth control pills are the best option, the counselor will usually give the woman a free, three month supply of pills. For many women, pills are very expensive so the clinic tries to make it as easy as possible to get that woman used to taking those pills. Once these discussions are complete, the woman will then have her abortion.
When a woman comes to an abortion clinic, the staff is ready to help but they also never want to see her again. The goal is to put the woman on a regimen that will hopefully prevent any more unintended or unwanted pregnancies. Despite the accusations of the pro-life movement, abortion providers are not anxious to see a woman several times for an abortion. While they would never judge them and will facilitate their desires, they also hope that the woman (and man) take less risks in the future.
I suggest that the pro-life movement does practically nothing to stop abortions. Their response is just don’t have one. On the other hand, the real work of preventing abortions is taking place right inside that very clinic.

April 7, 2010 at 11:27 am
I won’t quibble about it either. The one woman whom I knew who wanted a final-trimester abortion was a woman whose child I would not want to be. Definitely a lot of issues that were going to prevent her from being a competent mom from the get-go. I never learned whether she went through with it or not.
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April 7, 2010 at 11:46 am
Pat, I always appreciate your feedback. It is always respectful, and for that I respect you immensely, regardless of whether or not we are standing on common ground.
Elena, I don’t see how I have avoided any questions. The fact that you feel the need to call me out and BASH the notion that people should a COME TOGETHER is preposterous. Addressing me in a condescending manner is definately NOT the way for you to go if you want me to see your point of view (because I just stop reading your post at that…)
And I said, “There ARE pregnancy centers that..” I don’t claim that they are ALL advocating for the “patient”. I believe that some of them DO probably push their OPINIONS of the wrongness of abortion. And I don’t think every abortion clinic is as “caring” and “concerned” for the patient as you might try to have me believe. There are flaws everywhere and there always will be. It is the way of the world.
And please…Don’t just skim through my post and take out the parts that piss you off, because I generally agree with positions on both sides…you are welcome to stop reading my post altogether, because the only person on here that makes me think about the opposition is Pat. The rest of you talk too much out of anger and I can’t see the facts through your rants.
I feel equally hurt for the mom that chooses the abortion as I do for the helpless child that is inside her womb. I don’t claim to be an extremist. I don’t march on Capital Hill. So, I guess (to you) that makes my opinion null.
But to answer your questions:
In a tubal pregnancy, the fetus and mother would be harmed, so YES (gasp) I do feel that an abortion is warranted in that situation. There are instances where I agree with abortion…But only if absolutely medically necessary…and that’s just not the majority…
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April 7, 2010 at 11:47 am
I am the anonymous above!
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April 7, 2010 at 3:01 pm
Hmmmm, James. I think your comments above make you “pro-choice”!
Anyway, I totally agree with you. I do not like anyone condescending anyone else. It is not constructive. On the other hand, I also get frustrated when a question is asked and never answered. I’m not saying you’ve done that, but I’ve seen it here and on the abortion.com Facebook page.
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April 7, 2010 at 5:11 pm
ditto…and although I am pro-choice on many issues…I am pro life when it comes to the unborn.
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April 8, 2010 at 2:35 am
James,
what about anencephalics , 5-, or Pataus or Robertsons or Pulmonary hypoplasia?
Intelligent person regarding pain. Obvious. With the ability to perceive what is pain?
A spinal reflex may exhibit withdrawal without spinal root ganglion or fascicular Colima related pain to the cortex.
James?
James answering questions does establish common ground. Helps cordial discource – when you rant and do not answer- frustrating – although nice to see you on the site .
Is the tubal pregnancy abortion murder if you would allow it?
Not all Tubal pregnancies kill the mother.
What about anencephalics, can the mother choose.This where we understand positions
otherwise discourse is meaningless.
Ron
what about a viable baby at 28 weeks that has severe abnormalities, no choice for parent?
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April 8, 2010 at 6:10 am
James, since you call yourself ” ‘pro-life’ for the unborn,” maybe you can explain to me why almost all self-proclaimed “pro-lifers” DON’T care for children they wanted to see born– kids who suffer from parental ignorance or cruelty, from social structures that block their potential, from predatory environments? Why don’t they have a vision of life that is at least as broad as they love they would like me to believe they have? Maybe you can use your personal experience to explain it to me.
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April 9, 2010 at 8:56 am
cg, I cannot speak for every “pro-lifer”. But I assume that many could be in my shoes. I am a sinlge mother right now. My husband is in jail (for the 7th time in our 10 years of courtship). He is a drug addict and has struggled with it for many years–came from a long line of addicts, no love from his drug addicted mother, never knew his father, step-father commited suicide on Father’s Day right before I met him. We were kids in high school when we got together. I am drawn to people that need help, I guess. Surely because of something in my psyche that I cannot pinpoint. When that and my love for life combine, it is astronomical..and dangerous to myself. But that is my lot in life. I stoped living for myself. I dedicated my life to showing him love beyond words, demonstrating it to him and our children.
Like your son, my boys know more about “real” life issues than any kid their age. They saw things that some adults haven’t seen. I guess, in a way, it was probably the abuse that you described for your son. As a young mother alone, it was very frustrating. Little help from family. I remember one night in particular, when my oldest was 3. He defied me most of the time, because he watched his father defy me. Well, he wouldn’t go to sleep. I was so tired from going to school all day and working all night that I lashed out. I spanked him so hard that it put welps on his bottom and I started to cry. It wasn’t his fault that I was so frustrated and exhausted that I took it out on him. I eventually learned to walk it off, and give myself a little time-out.
Now, I have to remind myself everyday how important these little lives are that have been intrusted to me…
Enough about that..
I am older now, and a little wiser. I cannot foster or adopt because of my husbands record, although I have a great job in the health field and a lot of love to give. I have tried.
I used to dream about finding a baby in a basket on my doorstep, like you see in the Disney movies. A mother that cannot care for her baby, and secretly wills it to me. Needless to say, that has yet to happen.
My husband is one of those unwanteds that you speak of. Maybe when his life finally matures, we can adopt or at least foster..until then, I will dream.
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April 9, 2010 at 10:00 am
Don’t give up on your dreams, Jamie. You’ve had it tough, I know, but I can feel that you are full of love. I had a very tough upbringing also and my goal has been to make my two children better than me and to give them a better life than I had. I’ve accomplished that goal, so I’m lucky. I hope one day you hear something crying on your front doorstep!!
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April 9, 2010 at 10:53 am
Pat, you are precious! When can we have coffee??
Hilly…I’m not going to beat the dead horse with the issue of pain…it is completely subjective, and “whatever the patient says it is”. Well since the fetus cannot talk, I cannot here him… moving on so that I am focusing and not ranting AGAIN…
If I was pregnant with a child who had any one of the disorders you listed above, I would carry to term, and pray for a miracle. I don’t think my life is any more or less inportant than theirs. God will take these babies when his time is right, much like he will do to my children some day. I realize that everyone isn’t me, BUT if we were all the same, life would be pretty damn boring.
And NO embryo can survive any type of tubal pregnancy, it hasnt yet implanted to grow and thrive in the correct spot. And if that tube were to rupture, it is extremely dangerous to the mother.
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April 9, 2010 at 4:34 pm
I can assure you, James, not many so-called “pro-lifers” are in your shoes, unless you think that because you feel you have triumphed over your parenting deficits, that you have the right to expect other unwillingly pregnant women to triumph over theirs in just the same way. It doesn’t happen that way. I can assure you that the kids who were overstressing you when they were five will not be the same kids who overstress you when they’re teenagers. If you are not already a graduate of a series of parent groups, I strongly urge you to keep ahead of the curve by starting now. To not do so is to have a 35-year-old child shock and disappoint you grievously.
I infer from your story taht as a child you learned to work things through on your own and to expect that “normal” men treat you like that.
I have dealt with a large number of women who either were in or used to be in abusive relationships, and I always made it a point to ask either why they had left it or why they still were in it. The answer for the first group was a variation of, “Nobody in my family ever treated me like that,” and for the second, “But he LOVES me!” If you are not aware how much the self-image you learned from your parents’ values (the Republican “family values”!) has made you a slave to repeated abuse, you will in the future find yourself unable to cope with a qualitative change in stresses from your older children. And that won’t be nearly as bad for you as it will for them.
PS– I love to say, “Told you so!” when the egg hits the fan. I hope you disappoint me.
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April 9, 2010 at 5:27 pm
Maybe I am wrong about other pro-lifers, but anything can be triumphed. Why aren’t we preaching that to these girls that want an abortion?? And please trust me on this–I EXPECT NOTHING from nobody.
I did learn to work things out on my own, but NO to the “normal” man comment. My dad is my best friend. I talk to him about everything, and I commend him for telling me to own up to my own responsibilities. I only WISH that I fell in love with someone like my dad. He’s the most amazing man I know.
On the other hand, I look at my cousin who grew up with me…a little older…everything handed to her…no responsibility…30 years old now…lives at home…parents pay for everything, and her kids call HER dad “Daddy”. They don’t even like her, because she stopped trying long ago when her parents didn’t push her to BE SOMETHING.
Since your so big on “pro-lifers” NOT taking care of what they say they’ll take care of. Do you want my address?? I’ll take your 120 babies a year..leave them on my doorstep, and knock on the door. I assure you that I’ll answer.
I have heard everything you’ve said, and I will be in counseling, parenting, therapy for the rest of my natural life–because I always know there’s room for growth.
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April 10, 2010 at 11:38 am
James, I’m not saying your relationship to your father has anything to do with your tolerance for a decade and more of plainly disrespectful behavior from the man who loves you. Family dynamics is not always that straightforward.
What I am saying is that your children are learning from the relationship between you and their dad what is going to be “normal” behavior for them to exercise (if they are boys) or to expect (if they are girls). You will not want to spend hours on the phone pleading with your adult daughter to leave her marriage before he kills her or being questioned by the cops as to why your son would have broken his wife’s jaw.
That is why I encourage you to probe into why you will let a man engage you in such a sub-optimal relationship. Sharon Wegenscheider wrote a ground-breaking book years ago, “The Family Trap,” which explains the roles children undertake to hold a family together. She of course, felt her childhood was fine– until she started coming apart in adult life.
Of the four roles children assume, your comments about “everything can be triumphed” and having worked everything out on your own indicates that you probably were the Family Hero role-player.
Enough off-topic. On topic: Telling anybody that anything can be overcome is not going to work in 99% of the cases. You can’t expect any mother to care for a baby until she has met her own needs first: “You can’t take care of the baby until you take care of the Mom” is the slogan for visiting nurses.
Finally, I feel you’re pulling enough maternal freight on your own without having to fantasize about taking on another 120 children. It’s not emotionally healthy to do that.
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April 12, 2010 at 9:15 am
haha to your last comment. That’s what I mean. I think your “aborticentrism” is about as unrealistic as my taking on all those babies (though I wish it were different).
And YES I do hear everything your saying and, although I agree with some of it, I also think that 99% of things CAN be overcome. Just take a look at yourself.
It seems that everyone on this board has overcome some rough patches somewhere.
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April 12, 2010 at 4:09 pm
James, it appears you don’t really have much understanding of family dynamics– how some kids (30%, according to the longitudinal study done by Warner-Jones in Maui over 20 years) can escape the evils of an impoverished life and how some kids adopted by a billionaire can blow it all by age 30.
If you were able to relate your own struggle to success to the underlying dynamics, you’d gain an appreciation of other familiies’ dynamics as well– and respect the woman’s decision as to how many more babies she should have.
It’s very common for the “family hero,” having fought so hard to get where he/she is, to assume that everybody else can do the same– but we can’t.
I don’t know any way to point your head in the right direction, but at least I can ask you what your practical commitment is to real human beings– not in some soft-focus future, but in the here and now, so you become aware that your actual commitment level is probably as committed as you’re going to be for children you want others to bear.
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April 14, 2010 at 7:21 am
Wow! Hilly, Charles, Elena — I didn’t realize I’d been hit like this!
Anyway, Hilly gets to the heart of the matter: “Should we outlaw IUDs, hormonal birth control, and so on because they cause abortion?” Those diabolical devices are the reasons we are Sodom and Gomorrah. And when I get the stupid notion that I myself might escape, I remember Lot’s wife.
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April 14, 2010 at 7:39 am
Okay, I gotta ask you John.
Are your married/dating? Do you have sex? If so, do you use birth control?
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February 8, 2014 at 2:09 am
This’ll Be My Year , I love the title of that song; sounds so HOPEFUL, right my darlnig FIona 9/11! NEVER STOP BELIEVING HONEY! I LOVE YOU WITH ALL MY HEART AND SOUL!LOVERainbowRay
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April 14, 2010 at 7:51 am
I’m married, but, thank God, I’m Catholic and I don’t have to advertise my sins. I tell them in Confession. I just don’t how you nons do it!
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April 14, 2010 at 3:17 pm
I ueds to speak Catholic, Pat! If I think anything needs translation, I’ll jump in. In this instance I would be telling you, I’m Catholic, but I use birth control.
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April 14, 2010 at 4:33 pm
Confession was so cool. You could sin all week, then go to confession, do a few Hail Marys and you’re forgiven! Then, you start sinning again on Monday!
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