As of yesterday, there is a new law in Nebraska that bans most abortions after twenty weeks. This was done under the assumption that the fetus can feel pain at that stage. The law will undoubtedly be challenged on the basis that it runs counter to Roe v Wade, the original Supreme Court decision that legalized abortion in this country. In that case, the Court basically said you cannot outlaw abortions until after 24 weeks.
There is a good chance that this law will make its way to the current Supreme Court. Of course, the Court could decide to not consider the case but the way things are going over there, there’s a good chance they will. So, at that point, the Supreme Court will be deliberating over the issue of fetal pain.
Now, let me try to sort this one out.
In this country, the states can electrocute, gas or inject with poison a real, live person. Yes, I know the argument in favor of such barbarity is that in (most) cases that person is a very bad person who committed some heinous crime. So, that person must pay the ultimate price! I get that piece.
But in Nebraska, a physician, who is acting solely at the request of the woman, cannot inject a drug called digoxin into a fetus/baby that is clearly alive but is also just floating around in the womb, unaware of what the hell is going on?
C’mon, let’s get real folks.
Please do not tell me that the baby (I’ll use that term) is floating around in there, thinking about what it’s going to eat that night or what college it will go to. Can pro-lifers say with a straight face that the fetus (equal time to pro-choicers) can see that needle coming down and feel it when it is injected? Does the baby/fetus really feel that little pinch and realize that this is the end?
The right to life movement (which polls show overwhelming support frying adult criminal) wants to outlaw abortions – period. They will come up with any angle, any strategy to make it more and more difficult to obtain an abortion in this country. This is just another way of going about that.
Indeed, why did they begin at 20 weeks? I thought “life” began at conception? I thought it is a person from minute one? If that is the case, why didn’t they go all the way back with this “it feels pain” argument?
The way I see it, abortion is a form of maternal euthanasia. It is a sad occurrence, one that no one willingly wants to face. Much like the decision to euthanize a 90 year old parent, this is a very tough one that is not made willy-nilly.
Don’t these politicians have anything more constructive to do with their time?

April 14, 2010 at 1:24 pm
1000% agreed with you Pat!
It is a very difficult decision to have an abortion, i never had one, but I guess that it might be one of the most difficult decisions ever! If the law is to change and forbid abortion, what will happen is that people will continue to do so in a different way, back offices, dirty and infected and the mortality of women will raise and people will start to wonder why she died, of course whoever still practice the abortion will try to hide themselves as much as they can, but if found, it will be arrested, condemned and executed because he/she took somebody’s life!!! So in another words, it is right to kill that doctor who choose to keep practicing abortion, but because he had to hide, the conditions of the place went poorly in all aspects and things just happens!!! When I was a child my dad said in the dinner table to be in favor of death penalty, at that time, back in Brazil I didn’t understand what was that and I cried because my dad was in favor of killing people, now, of course I understand better the situation and I don’t cry anymore, of course I still think it is harsh, but I can say that if any of this monsters out there do something to my daughter or grandson, the police do not need to worry about catching him, I will do it myself and execute him without one glare of guilty on my mind…
Pro-lifers or not, they change their minds as things happen in their lives… or when it is convenient to them… Pro-choice in the other hand use this option of abortion to be able to remove a problem because they were irresponsible enough to think before having sex and to use a condom. If pregnancy were the only risk…
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April 14, 2010 at 1:29 pm
There’s a lot here, Pat. I’ll just take one point — Roe outlawed killing young people after they had been living for 24 weeks. No, Roe did not. Roe said you may kill her right up till she’s born (and our President said you may kill her even after that).
Ok, one more: I say young person — a real, live person; you say fetus — an unreal, dead thing. See why I know this issue will only be resolved by our side’s using force to combat your side’s violence?
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April 14, 2010 at 4:29 pm
Sorry, John, but you are wrong about Roe. Roe said that the states can outlaw abortion after 24 weeks but they have to leave an exception when the womans life or health is in danger. Every state has such a law. So, unless her life or health is in danger, she cannot get an abortion. Pro-life groups like to say that a woman can get an abortion right up to birth. Unless it is for one of those exceptions, that just ain’t true. I personally know all five doctors in the country who do abortions for these extreme reasons. If a woman came to them with a totally health fetus and she was healthy looking for an abortion at 30 weeks, she just wouldn’t get one. But, see, the pro-life movement needs to keep saying what you are saying to make pro-choicers sound extreme. I have no reason to lie – I dont work for any groups. And, as you can see, I’m fairly candid and even critical of pro-choicers at times….
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April 14, 2010 at 5:18 pm
If you read Thomas Franks’ book, “What’s the Matter with Kansas?” you’ll understand better the wacko element that runs the state. One of his classic comments in the book is, “Republicans run on the premise that government is bad for you; when elected, they proceed to prove it.”
He describes how the prairie populism that was born of farmer’s ruination at the hands of Wall Street (even back then in the 1880’s!) transmogrified into anti-abortion sentiment culminating in the Days of Rage in Wichita, the week or so of anti-abortion violence.
A lot of those acivists thereafter got involved in politics. The result for the last generation has been wingnut government. The Kansas Board of Education was until recently only second to the Texas Board of Education in stupidity; Sam Brownback, their born-again Senator, plays to them like the yokels they are, and they re-elect him time and again so he can go to DC to raise their taxes, ruin their Medicare funding and destroy Social Security.
And now you have the Legislature do this? Well, I’d guess the former school board members got elected to the Legislature….
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April 14, 2010 at 6:01 pm
I believe you think you are right, Pat, but you are still wrong. “Health” is the reason. All a woman has to say to have the young person killed at any time before she’s born is “I cannot cope. I would have a nervous breakdown” or something similar. You are extreme, Pat. Of all the world’s killers since the beginning of time, you are one of the most extreme.
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April 14, 2010 at 7:50 pm
Oh, I forgot to add something, understandably: “and I am too.”
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April 15, 2010 at 6:04 am
John, before Roe v. Wade, the process you describe is exactly what women in some states had to go through– they appeared before a board to justify getting an abortion. They were in effect saying, “I cannot cope.” The boards didn’t have to offer the alternative of an adopption, although I suppose they could have.
One study showed that in general boards unwittingly used their power to grant the access to an abortion to women who were economically secure, well-connected in the community, educated and emotionally and psychologically stable. In other words, women who would have made good mothers.
Women who did not possess those criteria were usually denied. In other words, the boards were compelling children to be born to the mothers least able to care for them.
The so-called “pro-life” solution you offer would just be a replay of the same punitive social mindset, I’m afraid. This could be changed, however, if that movement ecver demonstrates it cares for human life.
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April 15, 2010 at 12:13 pm
I am one of the “most extreme killers of all time?” Gimme a break, John. Do you really mean that? I’ve never performed an abortion in my life.
Meanwhile, I know the pro-life movement points to the “health” exception in the third trimester. I have no doubt that a few women a year, and that’s all it is, go to a clinic in their third trimester and ask for an abortion because of “health.” But, John, all I can say is I know every doctor in this country who performs abortions at this point, all five of them, and if a woman came to them and said she wanted an abortion because she was going to have a “nervous breakdown,” the doctor would not do it. If anything, those doctors are so paranoid about being watched by the government, they are not going to take that chance.
But, please explain to me that earlier statement of yours. Yikes!
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April 15, 2010 at 4:06 pm
you meant “county” and not “country,” I hope, Pat!
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April 16, 2010 at 4:34 am
Careless, Pat — I should have said “one of the most extreme kayhaitchers of all time.” Extreme, yes, but not as guilty as I who knows what’s going on.
But the rest: selling baby parts is big business, and didn’t Tiller say he himself killed over a thousand third trimester kids each year (and the smoke from their burning bodies from his on-site incinerator is what finally drove Scott to act), and the mill in Englewood NJ used to do more late-terms than that and I’ll bet they’re still in business.
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April 16, 2010 at 9:22 am
I dont know where to start, John. It looks to me like you just read the most extreme pro-life websites every day and just regurgitate what they say.
George Tiller, who was a very close friend and whose clinic I visited, performed about 50 third trimester abortions a year.
Clinic do not sell the baby parts. Geez, that’s against the law. Yes, after a late abortion there are “parts”, I’ll grant you that. But they are disposed of in biohazardous waste bags per the law of the state. Many years ago, in the dark ages, a few clinics did have incinerators. What, do you want to throw the parts in the garbage?
The clinic in Englewood – and I know them well – performs abortions up to 24 weeks. They do not and cannot do abortions after that.
Please, John, start doing some thinking for yourself. Don’t believe all of the crap that both sides, yes, both sides, put out. I have worked in the field, I know the clinic, I know the bad ones, I am totally candid about what I’ve seen and I have absolutely no agenda…..
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April 16, 2010 at 9:44 am
I am so insightful: I sensed you are the voice I was listening for. Mind you, I don’t accept what you say, yet. I will look further into these three examples, or non-examples, of baby killing, and get back to you. Thank you, Pat.
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April 16, 2010 at 10:24 am
Cool. Check out today’s post. Might sound familiar to you….
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April 17, 2010 at 4:06 pm
Dunkle,
you sound so foolish.
I hope that is not the case.
They should write a post on you, there are so many examples that could be derived.
Just answer some straight forward questions.
Stop blabbing nonsense propaganda. If have a claim, support it.
Educate yourself a little bit so you can support the things you say.
1) Did you threaten violence in your first comment? Or anyone using violence as a means to not agree to live under the rule of law?
2) Would you let a women have an abortion at 6 weeks if the mother would die from the pregnancy if taken to term. I am curious how radical you are.
You clearly are on the fringes, how far we’ll see by your answers. People on the fringes resort to violence. They cannot articulate or support their opinions. If their opinions were in any way persuasive law would be changed.
If you do not want to live under rule of law, then they should move to other countries. That better fit their profile.
Let’s hear how radical you are. Above questions please,
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April 18, 2010 at 4:29 am
1. Oh no, but I do know what is inevitable.
2. Yes.
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