Personhood Demonstration
I am now totally convinced that the anti-abortion movement in this country has no idea how to stop abortion and, worse, some of their strategies might actually result in more abortions in this country.
There is now another anti-abortion group out there called “Personhood USA.” They are led by a young activist by the name of Keith Mason who hails from Colorado. Personhood USA’s announced goal is to pass amendments to several state constitutions that would recognize someone as a person “exactly at creation.” As Mason explains, that would be at the moment of “fertilization…when the sperm meets the egg.”
Go ahead, Keith, make our day.
Okay, so I’m not gonna spend any time talking about how only about half of these fertilized eggs actually result in an ongoing pregnancy. I guess to folks like Keith, it is irrelevant. I suppose that when fertilization occurs, the parents will go out and get their new little “person” a Social Security but if it never appears, well, we’ll just toss his or her card out. Despite some possible glitches, Keith is charging full steam ahead. Indeed, this November voters in Mississippi might vote on a “personhood amendment” to their state Constitution, although it is being challenged by the ACLU. And Keith has declared that his organization hopes to get proposals like these on the ballot in nearly half the states by 2012.
If Keith and his buddies want to spend all of that time on initiatives like these, I might even send him $5 to encourage him because it is an incredible waste of their time, money and energy. If you have ever worked on a ballot initiative you know how much work it is and if Keith wants to try to mobilize the anti-abortion folks in that state on a proposal that – even if it passed – would never pass constitutional muster, then I say go for it. Of course, he is ignoring the fact that a similar measure was defeated in Colorado in 2008 and 2010 but if his crowd wants to spend their time pushing something like this instead of working to defeat President Obama, I applaud their decision.
Keith Mason
Here’s the other kicker. Let’s say that the measure actually does pass in Mississippi and it starts making its way through the court system. Let’s say that in the meantime, President Obama has three more appointments to the U.S. Supreme Court and he gets into a pissing match with the pro-choice movement and, seeking revenge, he appoints three ardent, right wing conservatives. Then this case gets to that Supreme Court and they uphold the law!
The result?
Sorry, Keith, but the result could actually be more (illegal at that point) abortions.
That’s because redefining “personhood” in this fashion will actually end up reclassifying many birth control methods as abortifacients or agents that induce abortions.
Hmmmm…. Less birth control available to women.
Now, I’m no rocket scientist but is it not possible that this scenario might result in more abortions?
Hello, Keith! Are you out there?
Abortion - Abortion Clinics, Abortion Pill, Abortion Information 
June 9, 2011 at 10:18 am
No here’s the deal for you Deanna. Here’s the topic: It’s women. You know the other half of humanity.
You and your ilk fail to cite the testimony of millions of women who chose abortion. And why is that? You don’t want to know. You don’t listen. You don’t care. All you care about is what you do and how wonderful it is that you can help a few women.
[gag]
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June 9, 2011 at 10:48 am
What I care about is that unborn babies are being dismembered, their heads crushed, and their brains sucked out as we speak! And that it hurts women in the long run. Why is it that the only thing you care about is the women? Why don;t you care about the dismembered babies? How is it that I become the bad guy because I want to save a baby’s life? It’s a stupid mixed up world that we live in where people don’t think right and where wrong is right and up is down.
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June 9, 2011 at 11:21 am
its not so much you being a bad person, you just have your ideals mixed up i mean honestly what are we going to do with all of them i mean you talk as if we put them in a pile for satire. just understand that until you figure out a more” humane” way to suck out brains and fix this so called problem, we will still fight to save lives of women around the country, they deserve a voice babies cannot speak. the baby’s life would not be in the running for a good time, knowing it almost died at birth, went through a group home that probably made the kid worse off i mean you have to look at every aspect, the childs future, psychological dependencies such as attachment issues, everybaby cannot be saved.
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June 9, 2011 at 2:13 pm
I have MY ideals mixed up? You guys advocate to kill babies and I’m the mixed up one? Do you even hear what you are saying?
You are right babies cannot speak which is the very reason that pro-lifers speak for them. I am being a voice for the voiceless.
Proverbs 31:8 says “”Speak out for the one who cannot speak, for the rights of those who are doomed.”
As far as “everybody can not be saved” goes. Maybe not but I am sure that if we try we could squeeze a few productive lives out of the 1.5 million per year that we throw into the trash under the guise of “saving women’s lives”.
Also, The argument of “we are saving the lives of women” doesn’t cut it. I have volumes of documented cases of women dying, being rendered sterile, etc from SAFE, LEGAL abortions. Here is one study on the mental issues associate with abortion. It’s long but important.
A new research study featuring numerous controls and a national data set finds a link between abortion and psychiatric disorders. Dr. Priscilla Coleman, a professor of Human Development and Family Studies at Bowling Green State University, led the research team that conducted the study. The study refutes the report the American Psychiatric Association released in August claiming abortion causes no mental health issues for women. The research team found induced abortions result in increased risks for a myriad of mental health problems ranging from anxiety to depression to substance abuse disorders.
The number of cases of mental health issues rose by as much as 17 percent in women having abortions compared to those who didn’t have one and the risks of each particular mental health problem rose as much as 145% for post-abortive women. For 12 out of 15 of the mental health outcomes examined, a decision to have an abortion resulted in an elevated risk for women.
“Abortion was found to be related to an increased risk for a variety of mental health problems (panic attacks, panic disorder, agoraphobia, PTSD, bipolar disorder, major depression with and without hierarchy), and substance abuse disorders after statistical controls were instituted for a wide range of personal, situational, and demographic variables,” they wrote. “Calculation of population attributable risks indicated that abortion was implicated in between 4.3% and 16.6% of the incidence of these disorders,” they concluded.
The researchers found women who had abortions, compared with those who didn’t had a 120% risk for alcohol abuse, with or without dependence, a 145% increased risk of alcohol dependence, 79% increased risk of drug abuse with or without dependence and a 126% increase in the risk of drug dependence. For mood disorders, the experience of an abortion increased risk of developing bipolar disorder by 167%, major depression without hierarchy by 45% and major depression with hierarchy by 48%. For anxiety disorders, there was a 111% increased risk for panic disorders, 44% increased risk for panic attacks, 59% increased risk for PTSD, 95% increased risk for agoraphobia with or without panic disorder and a 93% increased risk for agoraphobia without panic disorder.
There was no mental health outcome showing abortion to have decreased the risk or a high risk for women who did not have an abortion.
Some abortion advocates have dismissed the wealth of previous research on the link between abortion and mental health problems by saying factors unrelated to the abortion contributed to them. The scientists found abortion elevated the risks independently of those factors. “The abortion variable made a significant independent contribution to more mental health outcomes than a history of rape, sexual abuse in childhood, physical assault in adulthood, physical abuse in childhood, and neglect which contributed to between four and ten different diagnoses,” the scholars wrote. “What is most notable in this study is that abortion contributed significant independent effects to numerous mental health problems above and beyond a variety of other traumatizing and stressful life experiences,” they said.
Ultimately, the authors write that abortion is directly “responsible for more than 10% of the population incidence of alcohol dependence, alcohol abuse, drug dependence, panic disorder, agoraphobia, and bipolar disorder in the population.” The team also found that spontaneous abortions, or miscarriages, had an independent effect on 4 of the 15 psychiatric illnesses examined — indicating abortion is significantly more traumatic for women than a miscarriage.
The team relied on a nationally representative sample, the national comorbidity survey, which is widely recognized as the first nationally representative survey of mental health in the United States.
Reference: Coleman PK et al., Induced abortion and anxiety, mood, and substance abuse disorders: Isolating, Journal of Psychiatric Research (2008), doi:10.1016/j.jpsychires.2008.10.009.
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June 9, 2011 at 3:32 pm
Not everyone agrees with Ms. Coleman: From the Wikipedia cite on Ms Coleman:
Some other researchers have been unable to reproduce Coleman’s results on abortion and mental health despite using the same dataset,[4] and have described her findings as “logically inconsistent” and potentially “substantially inflated” by faulty methodology.[5] The American Psychological Association (APA) and other major medical bodies have concluded that the evidence does not support a link between abortion and mental health problems,[6] and APA panelists charged with reviewing the evidence were similarly critical of the methodology of Coleman’s studies.[3] Coleman has responded that she is “not the only credentialed scientists whose research is indicating that abortion is not without serious mental health risks for many women.”[5]
Until numerous studies confirm and others do not counter her results, quoting it as fact is not rational. Citing it as support is OK.
What I do know regarding deanna is that she lives what she believes. Good for her, although I believe she is the exception (I note that the another prolific anti-choicer on this site, John Dunkle, does not claim to have ever adopted). Deanna does seem to be focused on adoption as the solution for an unwanted pregnancy. Unfortunately, many unwanted babies do not end up in adoption. Many women, after the 24hr/7dy/9mo bonding simply can’t sign the papers. This does not make them good parents. It might, but it might not. A woman who understands herself might well decide that (1) she won’t be able to sign the papers and (2) she will make a very poor parent, so abortion is the only answer for HER. That’s what deanna cannot understand.
Beyond that, how often do mixed race or drug dependent babies who are put up for adoption get adopted? Sometimes, sure. But MANY such babies, especially those who are not put up until that are beyond the baby stage, don’t get adopted – they get sent from one foster home to another to another. Then the cycle repeats, and they become the next generation drug addicts who rob and kill. Or worse, they become the next Bundy or the next terrorist.
Its nice to talk about the successes. Not so nice to talk about the failures. My opinion (I won’t site sources other than 50 years of living as an adult) is that a fetus that cannot survive outside the woman’s body without massive medical intervention is not an independent life form. So the woman has the right to decide to continue or not. It may end up being a bad decision for her; it may end up being the best decision she ever makes. We all make bad decisions and good decisions, and we move on.
Another opinion I have (I await deanna’s counter claim) is that without safe abortions (aside, CDC web site data says a legal abortion in the first two trimesters carries about 1/6th the mortality rate of a pregnancy taken to term), we will return to the pre Roe-v-Wade days of back alley illegal abortions that really did have the massive death rates and massive internal damage. Our society has tried numerous experiments to ban things people want. These efforts usually end badly. Check your history, deanna. Let woman choose; don’t turn the clock back. (How old are you deanna; were you an adult reading pre 1973? Did you every get exposed to the news reports? I remember. I don’t want that again.
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June 9, 2011 at 5:37 pm
“Beyond that, how often do mixed race or drug dependent babies who are put up for adoption get adopted? Sometimes, sure. But MANY such babies, especially those who are not put up until that are beyond the baby stage, don’t get adopted – they get sent from one foster home to another to another. Then the cycle repeats, and they become the next generation drug addicts who rob and kill. Or worse, they become the next Bundy or the next terrorist.”
Mixed race babies are actually very easy to get adopted and are actually in high demand with waiting lists. Babies who are addicted to drugs and even special medical needs ones are adopted relatively easily. The ones that are hard to adopt out are:
(1) children with catastrophic illnesses that require skilled homes. Not all homes are approved “skilled” homes for high medical needs children. I’m speaking of foster care and foster to adopt. These are state and local guidelines that prevent many homes form taking some of these children. There are however special needs adoption agencies such as CHASK that have waiting lists of parents seeking children.
(2) Large sibling groups of more than four or five children. Again, there are state and local guidelines for these. Not everyone is eligible to take that many (financial, home size, health guidelines). But to be honest fear keeps a lot of people from adopting that many at once.
(3) Children with backgrounds of abuse that prevent them from being placed into homes with other children (again state and local guidelines).
With that said, I do admit that more could be done. But also, to be honest, the sheer amount of bureaucratic red tape that a family runs into when they attempt to adopt is appalling and prevents many adoptions. Our foster system in the US is very broken. When we adopted our youngest (special needs FAS) we found out that he had been highlighted on the local TV stations “Wednesday’s Child” segment about a year earlier. We asked why no one had come forward to adopt him in that years time. it turns out that there was a stack of about 20 families wanting him but the social worker who handled his case just hadn’t gotten around to them. We had to fight and threaten to get lawyers (no kidding) for a solid year in order to get them to process our application to adopt him. After numerous tries they finally consented. The hold up had nothing to do with us it was that the social worker was “overworked” (her words) and didn’t have time to get to it. Just today a friend who was trying to adopt through the foster system gave up because she couldn’t get Social Services to process her paperwork. Now she is going private. Many of these “waiting children”have families desperately trying to adopt them but the bureaucratic mess stops them. And if it doesn’t then fear or finances do. Although, as I said I do admit that more can be done. There is an adoption push in the pro-life movement right now that has not always been there. People are stepping up to the plate in these areas. I was at a gathering that had over 700,000 attendees and part of the days focus was on encouraging adoption and post abortive ministries. I know of several well performing agencies that came out of that one gathering with one in particular processing adoptions as fast as they can with waiting lists. Part of the focus that day was on foster adoption also.
So, yes, our Foster system needs overhauling to break up the log jam of adoptions that would be taking place were it not so messed up and yes we need to do more and that movement is taking off. But there are other factors that are preventive like economics( the per diam per day for a foster child is only about 14 dollars in most states, not enough to feed the child) household size (after a certain age each child must have a separate sleeping room in most states per state guidelines) and plain old fashioned fear. These obstacles can be overcome though if a person is determined enough.
With all of that said, and with the mess our Social Services is, and with potential adoptive parents being afraid. There is STILL no legitimate reason to kill the unborn. I am the survivor of a failed abortion attempt. My parents couldn’t afford me. We were dirt poor, and I came from an addictive home that had it’s fair share of dysfunction. All of the reasons that you give for taking a childs life are all of the things that have made me who I am. I came through what you deem as an appropriate reason to kill me as a normal (yes) , functioning part of society. There are millions more just like me who could have come from the same circumstances, even one foster home after another, and turned out to be normal adults. Just as I was given a chance to live and prove my worth so should the others be.
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June 9, 2011 at 4:13 pm
Agree that Coleman is a suspicious as David Reardon.
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June 9, 2011 at 8:12 pm
And you picture yourself as the heroine who comes to their rescue, leaving others the really difficult work of nurture they know they’re unequipped for. I’m impressed. May I have your autograph?
“Unborn babies” is the image the so-called pro-lifer wants to sell to the public. “Potential humans” is a far more accurate and far less romantic description, which is why they avoid using it.
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June 10, 2011 at 4:43 am
“Rational adult” is the image Chuckles wants to sell to the public. “Confused post-human” is a far more accurate and far less romantic description, which is why Chuck avoids using it.
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February 9, 2014 at 6:54 am
January 20, 2008 9:10 pm by I am beginning to rialese that the opportunities to discover such moments become less as you get older and your situation becomes more complicated (or should that be more people become dependant upon you?)Good to hear that peace does still exist, however fleeting.
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June 9, 2011 at 2:26 pm
…and here’s another:
A second new study in New Zealand points to the link between abortion and subsequent mental health problems for the women who have them. Researchers at Otago University reported their findings in the British Journal of Psychiatry and found that women who have abortions have an increased risk of developing mental health problems. Professor David Fergusson, John Horwood and Dr Joseph Boden headed up the study that involved women who were interviewed on six different occasions between the ages of 15 and 30.
The study found that women who had abortions had rates of mental health problems about 30% higher than other women. The conditions most associated with abortion included anxiety disorders and substance abuse disorders. Abortions increased the risk of severe depression and anxiety by one-third.The authors concluded that anywhere from 1.5 to 5.5 percent of all mental health disorders seen in New Zealand result from women having abortions. Ultimately, the New Zealand team concluded that abortion adversely affects women’s mental health while childbirth and miscarriages do not.”Other pregnancy outcomes [including live birth] were not related to increased risk of mental health problems,” they found.
Reference:
“Abortion and mental health disorders: evidence from a 30-year longitudinal study.” Fergusson D, Horwood LJ and Boden JM (2008). British Journal of Psychiatry, 193: 444-451
Also, here is a link to an in depth study of the physical complications of abortion. This is documented evidence that abortion is not as safe as reported. This article is from the Elliot Institute with neutral medical and scientific references as backup. It has a complete bibliography at the end if anyone wants to check the sources.
http://afterabortion.org/2000/the-risks-of-choice-studies-document-the-physical-and-emotional-dangers-of-abortion/
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June 9, 2011 at 3:59 pm
So, how high are you willing to have your taxes raised in order to provide proper mental health services for those women in America? And the study equally validly points out that women with mental health issues have higher rates of abortion. . . So, if we fund mental health services, we can lower the abortion rate. How much will you chip in?
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June 9, 2011 at 4:04 pm
As much as it takes to keep babies alive and keep women from being messed up for years.
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June 9, 2011 at 8:08 pm
No, you haven’t been agitating to have them raised, have you? You’re just stating how you wish you’d be seen by others, not what you’ve actually done.
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June 9, 2011 at 10:21 pm
Ok aborticentrism…..you win…….I’m a nasty evil villain just out to make myself look good. Whatever. have fun with it!
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June 9, 2011 at 4:27 pm
Deanna, I understand how anxious you are to respond but I gotta tell ya that you’ll lose a lot of your audience if you keep writing tomes for answers.
Somewhere up there you said we advocate killing babies. The way I look at it, women will always consider abortion and will get one, so I advocate that they be done in a safe, healthy and as comforting environment as possible.
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June 9, 2011 at 10:31 pm
I don’t agree Pat. I believe that there will be ‘some” women who will always get abortions yes, but I also believe that many lives can be spared if it is illegal. Just like mine was spared. had abortion been legal and easily accessible I guarantee that I wouldn’t be here today. Now, I’m sure that all of you here couldn’t give a flip about that but it matters to me and to my children and to those that I minister to.
As far as the tomes. I know. I am a woman of many words.. Sorry. I will try to lighten the load.
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June 10, 2011 at 4:50 am
I love Pat, deanna, but you gotta remember, Pat is a killers’ helper. Take all Pat’s advice with that in mind. (And Pat never would tell me if he or she was male or female. That accounts for the strange syntax my lack of knowledge occasionally forces me to use, like the above.)
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June 10, 2011 at 10:36 am
I know who Pat is but I won’t blow the cover 🙂
I will give you a hint though. Pat’s a guy. You can tell my the writing style. Women write differently.
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June 10, 2011 at 1:37 pm
I could have figured that out for myself if I was smart.
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June 10, 2011 at 12:55 pm
So they shouldn’t have safe environments? You state so many points that just circumvent our cause, deanna, just understand that these statements aren’t trying to chastise you, it’s just, reading this I don’t think abortion could cause agoraphobia I mean do you know what that is, I mean the only few cases that have been documented and fully studied are insane I mean, honestly I believe for a woman to have a child in the world that they can never have a full on relationship with. But I’m glad you stick to your own.
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June 9, 2011 at 3:54 pm
David, Deanna et al. in #21: Nice research, David; you saved me a lot of time and trouble.
At bottom, Deanna’s situation is this: she’s a high-energy person capable of doing a lot. Abortion makes her uncomfortable, and since she’s capable in so many other areas, she’s determined to achieve the comfort level she wants because she believes she can do it. She knows how to marshal if not facts at least factoids in support of her campaign, and she employs excellent communication skills.
Because she needs to win, she cannot put herself in the place of a woman who is faced with the terrifying task of raising the child she can’t; nor can she assess impartially evidence contrary to her beliefs.
She thinks she is working at maximum capacity in caring for her children, but she hasn’t reached it yet– and she won’t until she finds herself raising the one she doesn’t want to.
In order to sustain her campaign, she cannot afford to consider the fates of children that David and Parker talk about and allude to: For example, in the state of New York, when frineds of mine were searching for an adoptive child, they rejected 25,000 physically and mentally unfit children who were available.
It is questionable if she can understand the plight of a child being raised by a mother who threatened a state trooper with aborting him if the trooper cited her for DUI and fetal endangerment. Her focus is on winning her battle against abortion, not on the need of pregnant women to want to have all the children they can properly care for.
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June 9, 2011 at 4:18 pm
You really do think you know me don’t you? You live in a place of fantasy that I have no way of traveling to. Don’t be so quick on the judgment draw there.
I know nothing about “friends” in NY who weed through 25,000 children. But I can tell you this about people that I know.
I adopted two special needs, one with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome and major health issues.
My friend adopted twins, one with a club foot.
My other friend adopted a girl with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome
Another friend adopted 3, a sibling group with major mental health issues.
Another friend adopted a baby girl with cranial deformities
Another adopted a sibling group of six
Another adopted a child with a cleft lip and palate and is in the process of adopting a special needs sibling group of three.
CHASK (special needs adoptions) has a waiting list of parents seeking special needs children.
And this list does not include the non special needs children that I know personally who have been adopted by pro-lifers. Maybe you hang with the wrong crowd 🙂
“Her focus is on winning her battle against abortion, not on the need of pregnant women to want to have all the children they can properly care for.”
My focus is on saving babies lives and helping them parent if they choose to or helping make an adoption plan if they choose not to.
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June 9, 2011 at 4:31 pm
Adoption is not always the answer. Some women do not want to carry a baby for nine months and then give it away. Can you understand that?
And, c’mon, Deanna. Are you telling me all of those people really are your “friends” and they just happen to be adopting all of these kids??? I’ve got hundreds of friends and I know two of them have adopted. What kind of neighborhood do you live in? Or are these “friends” part of a pro-life/adoption support group of people that are now “friends?”
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June 9, 2011 at 5:41 pm
Actually yes Pat they are my friends. I could name every one, give addresses and birthdays. These kids come to my kids birthday parties and some are family members. So yes, they are for real. (If you are interested you can look on my blog under the ‘adoption option” tab you will find our adoption story. Some of these children are part of that story.
YOu said, “Some women do not want to carry a baby for nine months and then give it away. Can you understand that?”
Actually, No.I don’t ! I have absolutely no comprehension of someone saying that they could kill their child but they couldn’t give it away. It is the most illogical thing that I have ever heard. I admit, I can’t understand that at all.
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June 9, 2011 at 8:02 pm
Yeah Pat, d’s got ya. You have two options — you can become like Chuck and join him in the ether, or you can become like Kate and the AI’s and get nasty and illiterate. Which is it.
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June 10, 2011 at 5:00 am
Or there’s the third option which is to be like John Dunkle.
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June 10, 2011 at 8:10 am
Kate’s right. I am not etherized, nor nasty, nor illiterate. And Kate’s no dope. If she were, she’d never have been able to see that.
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June 10, 2011 at 11:35 am
Deanna, i didn’t read all you wrote… but if you do what you are saying here i have to give you CONGRATS!!! because you are the only one here who is against abortion and it is doing something to make a difference… different than other people who only know how to accuse…
Somewhere up in the posts, you mention something about answering something to somebody and that you were not bragging, i read a little about it and i agree with you on that, if somebody is accusing you of something you got to explain (if you wish too).
Also, i am sure John will say that i am just like Pat, a baby killing…. well, i am not pro choice or either pro life – i only think that if i can not afford to help somebody for the rest of my life financially i can’t tell them what to do. AND i am very clear and also mention this here several times, i am only pro abortion in 3 scenarios – incest, rape, and proved medical condition…. otherwise i don’t agree with it.
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June 10, 2011 at 2:53 pm
Thank you Sonia for being fair to me. Appreciate it!
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February 8, 2014 at 6:15 am
How could you overlook Deanna Durbin.That bftauieul singing and acting lady out of the past. She got the most fan-mail of all in that time.Still enjoy looking at her old movies again and again.Thanks for posting and looking forward for more postings of Deanna.
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June 10, 2011 at 1:44 pm
Yes, Sonia, I do say you’re just like Pat, a killers’ helper. And I agree with your comparison of deanna to me. She is extraordinary. Do you mean to say that only extraordinary people can be against murder?
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June 10, 2011 at 2:23 pm
Dear John…. Deanna is WAY BETTER THAN YOU ARE…… She is against abortion and she work towards what she believes adopting and creating means for adoption… you in the other hand only knows how to offend people, how to accuse, how to point fingers, if we were to have more people like Deanna maybe abortion would not exist at all… I did not compare you to Deanna, not even close to that, because you are a radical, stupid catholic church rat. Which likes to pretend to be a good citizen and goes around accusing people. You can pretend whatever you are but, ME, i can sleep at night without any regrets because i never did kill any “baby”…
From time to time you writes things that i would say i agree with, is rare, but it happens, and unless somebody agrees with you 100% you don’t give anybody 0.1 % of a chance because you are selfish and doesn’t know how to walk a mile in other people shoes… So, for me, you are not worth to discuss anymore…
Thank you Deanna to make a difference in people lives.
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June 10, 2011 at 3:25 pm
If this is not my wife attempting to disguise her literacy, I did not catch a big fish yesterday.
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June 10, 2011 at 10:48 am
See, Deanna? It’s not the welfare of the born child that you focus on; you focus on eliminating the discomfort you feel about abortion. You ought to research the site that Dares Not Speak Its Name on this blog. Hint: It starts with the letter “A.”
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June 10, 2011 at 1:40 pm
Ach! deanna! Run! Hide!
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June 9, 2011 at 8:06 pm
Wow, Deanna! Your friends are doign GREAT work! They must be saving tens of thousands of children. Can you tell me how many children are adopted in the US annually, excluding those imported from other countries? One million? Two million?
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June 9, 2011 at 10:50 pm
The last statistics which were for the year 2007, there were 150,000 (the majority of foster children are not adoptable. The plan is to reunite them with their birth family) foster children waiting to be adopted with 51,000 placed for adoption and 17,000 placed with legal guardians. per the child welfare report to congress 2007
The total breakdown for adoption in the USA in 2007 was;
– 2007 breakdown of adopted children in the United States: Private domestic, 677,000 (38 percent); foster care, 661,000 (37 percent); international, 440,000 (25 percent). Department of Health’s 2007 National Survey of Adoptive Parents
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June 10, 2011 at 10:45 am
You made it sound like your people are adopting millions, and they’re only adopting 150,000? Ten times that number of abortions are performed every year. Since you have eight friends that have adopted, maybe you can recruit 80 more friends to adopt six kids apiece as you have. Be sure to let me know how the recruiting drive turns out.
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February 8, 2014 at 10:16 am
Oh such beautiful photo’s and the dainrlg little girl with the bunny hat is so cute! What beautiful little girls.The snow is magical, yes you need to enjoy it’s beauty! We don’t get snow here, maybe a few flakes once in a blue moon and then it’s gone if it even covers the ground. I used to live in the North and grew up with snow and remember it being so lovely! I love your blog!
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June 9, 2011 at 4:08 pm
Some of you may already be reading about this, but I just find it so fascinating, I want to be sure everyone knows about it, especially in light of Pat Richard’s response to anti abortion strategies. The poll, Conducted by the Public Religion Research Institute, it is one of the largest ever conducted about abortion attitudes in this country.
http://www.publicreligion.org/research/?id=615
Some of the things most interesting to me:
-there are a significant # of people who identify as both pro-choice and pro-life
-a solid majority of people think that abortion can be the most responsible choice, depending on circumstances.
-a majority of people of every religion, except evangelical Christians, think abortion should be legal, even if they think it is immoral.
-people are much more inclined to think abortion should always or mostly be legal if they know someone who has had an abortion.
-More than 7-in-10 (72%) religious Americans believe it is possible to disagree with the teachings of their religion on the issue of abortion and still be considered a person of good standing in their faith
All in all, it suggests that life is not as black and white as the more radicalized prolifers would like it to be.
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June 10, 2011 at 10:20 am
All in all it suggests that most people are as crazy and mixed-up as Kate
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June 10, 2011 at 10:41 am
Well, for every study out there there’s an opposing study with different conclusions as has been stated over and over about my sources. But for me and most other pro-lifer’s, studies about what others think about abortion makes no difference to our attitude towards it because it is an immoral act that destroys a human being. The whole country could be chanting in unison that it’s right and good and I would be saying, no, it’s immoral because in it a human being dies at the hand of another.
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June 10, 2011 at 5:59 am
I’ve come to ponder a few things about Deanna. I’m not writing this in any sense of meanness but in the way that things don’t connect for me. Consider, for example, her household full of six children, some with special needs, and all their activities of daily life including clothing, homework, slumber parties, meals, doctors and dentists appointments and bath and bed time. Consider also all the work including the unpaid pastor work, the time and money setting up households for women, the time and money spent planning and hosting birthday parties, the laundry, the cooking, the shopping, the upkeep on her blog, the vast amount of time spent posting tomes on Pat Richard’s blog, the labor of being a certified foster parent, and the time and money supporting orphan relief efforts, all this Deanna does singlehandedly. She offers freely the breadth of her accomplishments but resents being called a braggart. She writes passionately about the humanity of the fertilized egg she calls a baby yet speaks about her own children using labels, descriptions, and numbers. Finally, consider how she seems wary of others when their comments assume too much familiarity or get too close. Reading between the lines, deconstructing her rhetoric, or trying to make sense of all she claims in a cohesive body of work, seems to make Deanna uneasy. Her responses are along the lines of “you think you know me but you don’t.” The public persona of Deanna is undisturbed until someone begins to tug at a loose thread and Deanna becomes unraveled. This reminds me of the Wizard of Oz who told Dorothy to ignore the man behind the curtain. Deanna doesn’t want anyone to get to know the Deanna behind the curtain, just believe the Deanna persona.
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June 10, 2011 at 6:44 am
Park, you missed deanna but not even Pat could have done any better. Bet you could nail me, though, with your talent. Try it.
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June 10, 2011 at 8:33 am
Wow! For a bunch of people who yell “don’t judge” you guys sure are full of judgment.
The reality is that you don;t know me, some of your comments (abortacentrisism) are out of line. They proposed to know my income, expenses, and a host of other things based on nothing. The “unraveling” that you think you hear is me getting aggravated at the infantile attitude. If you guys want to have adult conversations then I am fine with that (wich is specifically what Ron Fitzimmons invited me here to do) but if all you guys are interested in is tearing me apart personally and talking about my income and how much I spend on groceries then frankly I have better things to do. So, yes, I get agitated and rightfully so.
Stuff like this “Deanna doesn’t want anyone to get to know the Deanna behind the curtain, just believe the Deanna persona.” Is nonsense and frankly uncalled for. I have better things to do than defend myself about me personally to a bunch of strangers. If you want to talk about the ‘ISSUES” then fine, which is what Ron Fitzimmons asked me here to do, but for post after post to be making assumptions about me is asinine and judgmental. If you want to get to know me go read my blog. It’s there in black and white.
The title of this article that I commented on was not “DeAnna’ Parker’s Lack Of Doing Stuff”. It was about the personhood status of the unborn.
MY question is this: Why do you guys personally attack anyone who comes along that doesn’t agree with you? Is it a way to discredit what they say? An agenda? Or just plain immaturity?
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June 10, 2011 at 11:38 am
It’s not an attack, per se. It’s a roundabout query about how you can singlehandedly do all the things you claim to do. It’s perhaps a teachable moment, rather than a ranting response, to share how others can follow your lead. If others have not considered all that you do, then perhaps there are lessons embedded in your approach to life that could serve others who are also like-minded.
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June 10, 2011 at 1:58 pm
I almost don’t want to answer this because whatever I say will be construed to be either bragging or boasting or lying. While I certainly don’t feel the need to defend myself to you I will answer for the sake of conversation. Yes, I do all of the things that I “claim” to do although admittedly I don’t do them all at the same exact moment. It’s summer so it’s a bit more relaxed than during the school year. And as a side note, we don’t have any foster children at the moment, we adopted the last one we had and the agency closed shortly thereafter (a private agency-the founder/director passed away suddenly) so we are having to transfer our paperwork to the state. As far as bday parties, house cleaning, shopping, cooking goes etc., it gets done. I actually have a lot more free time than you would imagine. The kids play (in the pool a lot in the summer) and I do my stuff. No big deal.
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June 11, 2011 at 5:48 am
Deanna,
Your response struck my soft under belly. I love the way you say that things just get done. In my own activism, things always got done. I’ve housed teens, abused women, crazy women, and one elderly woman who saw herself as a New Yorker prima donna, into our home. Their stays range from an overnight to a three year stint. And, as you said, things get done.
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February 9, 2014 at 12:32 am
July 23, 2009 2:24 pm by Janean Gernert Time is mind boggling…just think of etrinety! I read a good quote in Our Daily Bread on the 21st…”To make the most of today, keep etrinety in mind.” Do today what pleases the Lord and all of time will fall into place one day at a time. Love and prayer, G’mom
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February 8, 2014 at 10:24 pm
Thank you so much for this post. I want to let you know that I posted a link to your blog in (please, noitce the new url for my blog), under the Page 5 post on May. 26, 2012. Thanks again.
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June 10, 2011 at 8:36 am
“She writes passionately about the humanity of the fertilized egg she calls a baby yet speaks about her own children using labels, descriptions, and numbers.??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
DO I???????????????????????????????????????????????
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June 11, 2011 at 9:34 am
A good point, Parker, but I think she’s the genuine thing. She is just so fixated on having things her way, she doesn’t want to open up about how she pulls it all together financially. There’s a concept called “livable wage,” which is the calculation of the money needed to function as a family without having to resort to welfare. For example, in my state, a single person needs to make at last $640 a week just to get by– paying the utilities, rent, groceries– but this doesn’t include medical care. If Deanna were living in this state, married and with six kids, the family would need about $90,000 a year to get by.
So, I’m naturally curious as to how she pulls it off. Is her hubby like Todd Palin, making $160,000 in a union job? It’s clear that at least some of her kids qualify for SSI; maybe she gets foster care stipends; if she has the use of a church vehicle, she’s probably being paid $0.65 per mile in kind (the Feds tax this sort of benefit), and so forth.
Since she wants to set the direction for this dialogue, she’s not going to be very forthcoming about family finances (and besides, Americans are trained to hide their income from their fellow Americans; it’s a way of keeping us all underpaid).
Nevertheless, there are so-called “pro-lifers” who quite flatly lie about their work. One, Nancy, claimed to have adopted four children and spent her days as a volunteer at a children’s hospital. As soon as I asked how she kept the family afloat financially, she disappeared. Which is one clue to tellng the ringers– they can’t provide details that only a primary caretaker would know.
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June 11, 2011 at 8:41 pm
abortecentrism said “There’s a concept called “livable wage,” which is the calculation of the money needed to function as a family without having to resort to welfare. For example, in my state, a single person needs to make at last $640 a week just to get by– paying the utilities, rent, groceries– but this doesn’t include medical care. If Deanna were living in this state, married and with six kids, the family would need about $90,000 a year to get by.”
I am not about to break down my families finances on a public forum. I’m not that dumb. But I will say this: Our state has a relatively low cost of living, we sacrifice a lot of what most American’s consider “normal” living to do what we do, and my husband makes a reasonable salary. So, we make it work. I do not have a church vehicle,our church is small. And FYI three of our six children are no longer living in the home. There are all grown up with children of their own.
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June 12, 2011 at 1:41 pm
So why haven’t you adopted three more? After all, you could save them from being of the 1.5 milliion….
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January 13, 2014 at 10:35 pm
Ah, Deanna, Deanna of June 2011! You walked away without another word about why you won’t adopt three more needy children to replace those you lost to adulthood. I miss you so.
But I have taken to heart your attitude toward the value of human life and not adopted three children myself…
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June 10, 2011 at 2:29 pm
Before i forget, Pat is also right when he mention that if a person has to have an abortion it is better to have a safe one…
Not saying that i agree with all abortions, but i rather have a mom inside the house taking care of her kids than to have her to die because of a abortion gone wrong!
This is the real meaning of the word Pro-life if anybody care to understand…
A little girl of 12 (for example) who already has her period and is raped or abused by brother or father doesn’t have to go thru 40 weeks of pregnancy just because some people are too selfish to understand that that was not her choice to get pregnant…
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June 10, 2011 at 3:00 pm
Sonia, the thing about rape and incest abortions is that less than 1% of all abortions are done for those reasons with some saying that is is as low as 0.03 %. That leaves well over a million abortions per year that are strictly for convenience sake. So pro-choicers use the rape and incest argument to try and justify the other million that are killed.
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June 13, 2011 at 9:53 am
When i mention about those 3 facts that i am pro-abortion Deanna i was just mentioning my view of it. I understand that people use that as an excuse for being irresponsible. But i can not say that i am either pro-choice or pro-life being that in a way i do agree with abortion when they fall into those 3 examples i gave it. It is a very hard subject where each and everyone of us will always have a different opinion, that is the main reason i will keep repeating myself as a broken record again and again…. INFORMATION, EDUCATION!!!! When each side decide that changing the focus of the subject of being legal or not and decide to see that giving education to teens is a better way of spending the money we might see more good than bad happening…
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May 26, 2012 at 9:49 pm
secondo me la wii si un esperimento ma dmevroo aspettare ancora un pochino per la Wii2 .cio ora come ora questa consolle vende ha successo e c sono ancora tanti giochi in uscita .secondo me the conduit il gioco ideale x questa consolle grafica accattivante..un sistema di controllo che si spera sia ben implementato e tack .ecco fatto .poi uscir la wii2 .e grazie alla grafica che avr e ai sensori potenziati porter gli ultimi scettici ed eretici dalla nostra parte .k cos non romperanno per la grafica e sentendo di giochi come questo si aspetteranno cose simili per la wii2 .cmq la wii attuale si al di sotto delle altre consolle(graficamente) ma diciamocelo la XBOX360 offre poco o niente ed piena di bag la ps3 offre giusto giochi come metal gear .fine .solo grafica niente arrosto ..e questo the conduit lo dimostrer a tutti k il nostro arrosto anche se non molto bello da vedere il pi gustoso e succulento di tutti
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June 10, 2011 at 2:38 pm
There is this music that says so much, so i will post here just because i feel like it…
“Heal The World”
There’s A Place In
Your Heart
And I Know That It Is Love
And This Place Could
Be Much
Brighter Than Tomorrow
And If You Really Try
You’ll Find There’s No Need
To Cry
In This Place You’ll Feel
There’s No Hurt Or Sorrow
There Are Ways
To Get There
If You Care Enough
For The Living
Make A Little Space
Make A Better Place…
Heal The World
Make It A Better Place
For You And For Me
And The Entire Human Race
There Are People Dying
If You Care Enough
For The Living
Make A Better Place
For You And For Me
If You Want To Know Why
There’s A Love That
Cannot Lie
Love Is Strong
It Only Cares For
Joyful Giving
If We Try
We Shall See
In This Bliss
We Cannot Feel
Fear Or Dread
We Stop Existing And
Start Living
Then It Feels That Always
Love’s Enough For
Us Growing
So Make A Better World
Make A Better World…
Heal The World
Make It A Better Place
For You And For Me
And The Entire Human Race
There Are People Dying
If You Care Enough
For The Living
Make A Better Place
For You And For Me
And The Dream We Were
Conceived In
Will Reveal A Joyful Face
And The World We
Once Believed In
Will Shine Again In Grace
Then Why Do We Keep
Strangling Life
Wound This Earth
Crucify Its Soul
Though It’s Plain To See
This World Is Heavenly
Be God’s Glow
We Could Fly So High
Let Our Spirits Never Die
In My Heart
I Feel You Are All
My Brothers
Create A World With
No Fear
Together We’ll Cry
Happy Tears
See The Nations Turn
Their Swords
Into Plowshares
We Could Really Get There
If You Cared Enough
For The Living
Make A Little Space
To Make A Better Place…
Heal The World
Make It A Better Place
For You And For Me
And The Entire Human Race
There Are People Dying
If You Care Enough
For The Living
Make A Better Place
For You And For Me
Heal The World
Make It A Better Place
For You And For Me
And The Entire Human Race
There Are People Dying
If You Care Enough
For The Living
Make A Better Place
For You And For Me
Heal The World
Make It A Better Place
For You And For Me
And The Entire Human Race
There Are People Dying
If You Care Enough
For The Living
Make A Better Place
For You And For Me
There Are People Dying
If You Care Enough
For The Living
Make A Better Place
For You And For Me
There Are People Dying
If You Care Enough
For The Living
Make A Better Place
For You And For Me
You And For Me
You And For Me
You And For Me
You And For Me
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June 10, 2011 at 5:33 pm
how to stop a conversation
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February 8, 2014 at 8:49 pm
May 23, 2009 5:49 am by Teresa This is beyond beuuitfal. I love this: “in my ever maddening mind I am only defined by my screaming opposite.” how frequently i feel as if all I am is what I hate to be. The imagery in this paragraph is powerful, I’m still reading over it and feeling stunned at its eloquence. “I’m afraid to come home because you never saw me in pain and I’m just waiting for your love to run out.” how powerful is this, to address each individual’s nagging need that they will never be sufficient – that their own display of humanity (crying, sleeping, eating) will be the deciding factor of an important relationship?
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June 11, 2011 at 9:41 am
Deanna says: “What I care about is that unborn babies are being dismembered, their heads crushed, and their brains sucked out as we speak! And that it hurts women in the long run. Why is it that the only thing you care about is the women? Why don;t you care about the dismembered babies? ”
So, let’s balance that against what happens after the babies you want born ARE born? What do you know about the Abortion Store and the Baby Store?
And by the way, what happens to the fetuses God aborts– the miscarriages and the stillborns? Do they have a souls? What happens to them?
If it’s okay for God to abort 1.8 million babies every year, why should we not follow in God’s footsteps?
And: Would you let me have your dog?
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June 11, 2011 at 10:34 am
“If it’s okay for God to abort 1.8 million babies every year, why should we not follow in God’s footsteps?”
Now, common Chuck. Pat made the same point above, and it’s been made several times before that. It’s easily refutable and now it should be embarrassing even to mention it. But mention it again you do. And refute it again i have to, but this is the last time: God permits everyone to die (except his mother). God does not permit me to kill you even though I know you will eventually die.
We call the former natural death; we call the latter murder. Is that clear?
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February 8, 2014 at 1:17 am
Gorgeous! I love the b&w of them in front of the building. I met these two at a weidndg in March (of one of the bridesmaids, Sara). They look fantastic, and, of course, you captured them perfectly.
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June 11, 2011 at 12:45 pm
Sorry, but although Deanna quotes Proverbs, Ecclesiastes shows that not only does God perform abortions, God commends abortion: (IV, i-iii), something I pointed out to you previously and to which you never responded, by the way. So God doesn’t reserve abortion exclusively to him/her/itself.
One of the weaknesses of arguing from the existence of God is that since God must be all-powerful, then with God everything is possible, and that means permitting people to do absolutely anything they want, which of course would mean chaos. Therefore, we must establish standards by which we will live, rather than assume some Deity is going to do that for us. (As witness Ted Bundy’s life and accomplishments. It can be easily argued that a God meant him to be born, but it can be persusuasively argued that he should have been raised by somebody who cared for him.)
Which means you can either live by making other people have babies, or you can live by raising the babies that are. Only by ignoring what happens to real children can you feel like a hero compelling babies to be born only to ignore them. Re-read the Abortion Store and the Baby Store.
The existence of the so-called “pro-lifer” proves that if there is a God, God has a dark sense of humor.
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June 11, 2011 at 3:04 pm
talk about chaos
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June 11, 2011 at 6:16 pm
Sorry, but not quite. Your verses only say that the unborn is “better off” for not having seen or experienced evil to this point; it does not say “better off dead”, does not say “better to die than to experience evil” and certainly does not say, “kill people to prevent them from suffering evil”. One must further ask, if the unborn named in those verses is to be aborted, then he/she has experienced or will experience the “wicked deeds done under the sun” firsthand.
“One of the weaknesses of arguing from the existence of God is that since God must be all-powerful, then with God everything is possible, and that means permitting people to do absolutely anything they want, which of course would mean chaos. Therefore, we must establish standards by which we will live, rather than assume some Deity is going to do that for us” Again, not quite; the standards have already been established by “the Deity” but the permissiveness (or tolerance if you will) allows us to accept or reject those standards- and in rejection, one quite simply draws up one’s own standards along your model- hence the chaos.
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June 12, 2011 at 12:52 pm
The verse says nothing like that, #14. It is the voice of God saying, “When I behld….” Who are we to second-guess God, the originator of the voice from the whirlwind, the visitor of wrath upon the sinners of Joplin? If God not only performs abortions, but recommends them by Scripture, you’re treading on dangerous ground. By the way, how many kids have you adopted, and will you let me have your dog? Happy Father’s Day!
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June 12, 2011 at 4:30 pm
No, it is not the voice of God, it is the voice of Qoheleth- a man. There is no reason for second-guessing- the ends (being “better off”) do not justify the means, cf Romans 3:8; thus one may be “better off” for not knowing evil, but this does not mean it is permissible to kill them to prevent the evil.
As to Joplin, read Luke 13:1-5, not all victims of sudden death are “wicked” or “sinners”.
No kids (I’m unmarried), and no dog- Happy Fathers day to you too
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June 11, 2011 at 8:26 pm
Rather than go back and re-write what I have already written about this subject go to my blog and read the article that explains why this line of thinking is incorrect. http://www.shoutingitloud.com/2011/05/god-is-not-abortionist.html
I would post it here but I will get in trouble by Pat for writing tomes of comment 🙂
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June 11, 2011 at 8:27 pm
My dog? I don’t get it?
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June 12, 2011 at 1:30 pm
You can’t answer the question, can you? YOu can’t just follow your heart and give me an answer???
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June 11, 2011 at 9:53 am
Hey, folks, I’ve been trying to comment on your stuff but I’m not able to reply to the specific messages. This is a good discussion, welcome back Kate but, Sonia, a little corny dont you think? 🙂
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June 13, 2011 at 9:55 am
My point exactly!!! lol
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June 11, 2011 at 8:57 pm
FYI: While a lot of people in my immediate sphere have adopted and work in orphan rescue and while there are many pro-life organizations trying very hard to take care of the orphans I have to admit that more could and should be done, a lot more. As I said in an earlier comment there is a revolution of sorts going on in Christian pro-life circles of “getting it” that we should be doing more. With that in mind I wrote an article on my blog today encouraging this very thing. In the article there are some videos by the director of one of these organizations that is leading this “revolution” also encouraging Christians to do more. I thought you might be interested in it. You can get there by clicking on my name.
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June 12, 2011 at 5:31 am
by the way, what is the difference between “orphan rescue” and adoption?
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June 12, 2011 at 7:54 am
Orphan rescue means providing financing, food, medical supplies, clothing, etc directly to the orphanages or organizations that take them to the orphanages. For example: 2000 blankets, 800 pounds of Legos, and a shipping container full of diapers were sent to orphanages in Cambodia.
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June 12, 2011 at 1:38 pm
Our state’s Catholic orphanage was the site of massive physical and sexual abuse by its keepers, the Sisters of St. Joseph. Fifty ex-inmates sued some four decades after they’d gotten out and steamrollered them. You’re probably too young to ever have read about the horrors of the Roumanian orphanage system specifically used to prevent abortions (Ceausescu wanted to outbreed the rest of Europe) and the lives of its survivors, huffing, drugging, stealing prostituting and dying uncared for, . And of course you haven’t seen the movie, “The Magdalene Sisters,” about Irish orphanages, which was still happening only twenty years ago or less. Dream on about “orphan rescue.” The only rescue for orphans is adoption, and we only adopt 150,000 a year. You still haven’t read what happens to babies who come out of the Baby Store, either…..
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February 8, 2014 at 5:23 am
She’s a hole in my cinematic knwoledge that I hope to be patching up with this series. Even though I will still call it my punishment, I think I am going to enjoy it.Thanks for the comment. Hope to hear from you on the next post about Deanna Durbin.
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April 7, 2014 at 3:55 am
I’ve been looking for a post like this for an age
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June 12, 2011 at 4:52 pm
“Christian pro-lifer .. doing more”??? The vast majority of these people happen to regularly vote Republican, and Republicans don’t want government involvement in any of the support systems. If you disagree, you have not been paying any attention, especially to war against health care.
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June 12, 2011 at 5:30 am
Continuing the line of Christians doing more, here’s an article from HuffPo about Catholics doing less. Because of state non-discrimination laws in Illinois, the organization has decided to get out of the foster/adoption business, leaving some 350 foster children to be reassigned to new homes.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/07/catholic-charities-sue-st_n_872721.html
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June 12, 2011 at 10:47 am
The anti-Catholic Kate posts another anti-Catholic blog.
Let’s take an organization Kate believes in, “Catholics for Choice.” Suppose someone had told Frances Kissling that her organization could remain in the Church-approved group just so long as she would drop her opposition to the movement that is trying to make abortion illegal again. Ridiculous right? Yet Kate wants the Church to do something equally preposterous, to deny its raison d’etre.
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June 12, 2011 at 12:47 pm
Francis Kissling had the choice of doing good for 350 children in need of foster care or dumping them in order to preserve the purity of a stand against abortion. Like the Patron Saint of Aborticentrists, Gianna Beretta Molla, Francis chose the purity of a stand over the need to care for any child. Screw the kids; Francis is going to Heaven, with or without them.
Oh, and Happy Father’s Day, Francis…
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June 12, 2011 at 8:09 pm
“Francis”? Is she a guy now? That makes her gender identification as perverted as her religious identification.
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August 1, 2011 at 7:11 pm
Pat, how come all you killers; helpers leave me with the last word? Just wanted to say that before this one disappears.
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November 11, 2011 at 9:36 pm
birls giant…
[…]Cheers to the Anti-Abortion Strategists! « Abortion – Abortion Clinics, Abortion Pill, Abortion Information[…]…
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