For as long as I can remember, anti-abortion advocates have screamed about how the owners of the abortion clinics and the doctors who work in them have made tons of money off the “killing of babies.” I have always found it interesting that these mostly conservative, Republican, business-oriented folks have taken such an anti-capitalist point of view, but that’s beside the point.
What also interested me was how the anti-abortion crowd could make such statements when I am confident that they probably do not know any of the doctors or owners personally, but why should that stop them from taking one (possibly true) anecdote and making such broad generalizations? On the other hand, my comments are based on my extensive, personal interactions with hundreds of these folks – and when I say “personal” I mean that I have spent times in their homes, have gotten to know their families and, thus, have gotten a very good sense of the kind of money they make.
Years ago, when abortion first became legal, the owners and doctors made a significant amount of money. And that was because in the very beginning there just weren’t that many clinics. Women were travelling hundreds of miles to get to a state like New York that had a clinic or two. There were charter planes bringing women to those facilities in NY, California and Colorado. So, those clinics were filled with hundreds of women each week. The average price for a first trimester abortion was $250 in the early days, so you do the math. They made a lot of money because of the high demand and the relatively few facilities.
Over the years, however, more and more clinics opened up their doors and the patients started to spread out to take advantage of a clinic that was closer to their home. Thus, the number of patients going to those large clinics in New York and the other states started to shrink. Then, sometime in the 1980’s or so, the number of clinics exploded in certain states. In cities like Detroit, Atlanta, Dallas and Los Angeles, they were all over the place. The competition for the patients became intense.
Now, I will tell you that I have visited some very nice homes over the years, that’s for sure. But, for the most part the owners of the abortion clinics live in middle-upper middle class neighborhoods, as do the doctors. I have no idea what the salary was (or is) for the average doctor but I can tell you in many cases it was just about what any ob-gyn would get per year. I mean, after all, they are doctors.
On the other hand, I also stayed on the couches of several owners who had some very modest homes. After the “old boys” of the early days started to die out or move aside, a new cadre or owners, particularly young women, took over and their life styles were nothing like their predecessors. Indeed, I recall two or three owners who actually lived in the basement of their clinics.
Today, the average cost of an abortion is about $400. If inflation were taken into account, the cost should be more like $1,000. But the price of an abortion has been kept artificially low because there are many owners who want to keep the procedure accessible for those in need and, yes, because of competition. At the same time, I have seen many instances where the doctor performed an abortion for free or at a reduced priced if the patient was in very dire circumstances. Remember, while these folks are businesspeople, they are also good bleeding heart liberals who want to help those in need.
I guess for me the bottom line is that abortion is a business that was created because women demanded the services. And it’s a medical business that requires the purchase of medical equipment, security cameras, malpractice insurance and the payment of staff salaries. So, I hate to disappoint the anti-abortion crowd but this true medical procedure requires that the doctors charge something to make it available to the next woman. And, please, before anyone who works at a crisis pregnancy center tells me that they work for free and charge nothing for their “services,” spare me the comparison. Talking to a woman about abortion in a small room CAN be done for free (which makes me wonder why many of the cpcs need government grants). When they start having a need for a physician who will perform a medical procedure, then we can compare notes.


June 27, 2011 at 9:02 am
Interesting.
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June 27, 2011 at 12:47 pm
And why, John, do you say it’s “interesting?”
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June 27, 2011 at 2:10 pm
I found it interesting because it confirmed what I’d noticed when I visit the homes. For every killer who lives in a pricey house — Blanks, Dantzic, Benjamin — another’s abode is modest — Leved, Sivitz, Cestari. What other motivations, then, besides money do people who do these gruesome tasks have for leaving the medical profession and becoming killers? Here are my guesses in descending order: anti-
Catholicism, physical comfort, concern for women, emotional ease, lethargy. What’s your guess?
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June 27, 2011 at 3:56 pm
For the older docs, the motivation was women’s health, in that they saw what illegal abortion did to the women. For the younger folks, it’s simply the desire to offer reproductive health services (remember, most of them do other things besides abortion) to women who need them. Same reason why a podiatrist works with feet or an internist works on other parts of the body…
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June 27, 2011 at 6:30 pm
Naw, Pat, there’s more to it than that. Why does one guy keep helping people while another stops helping them and starts ripping them apart. I wish Shakespeare were still around. He’d know.
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July 20, 2011 at 11:23 am
And I forgot one big one above — lots of guys turn to killing when they realize they are not good enough to achieve the lifestyle they want by practicing medicine. I’d should have put this as #1, even in front of the anti-Catholic reason.
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June 27, 2011 at 10:50 am
The CPC Mills should be shut down for the harm they do to women.
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June 27, 2011 at 12:48 pm
That’s a pretty broad statement, Kent. Actually, there are some cpcs that the abortion clinics refer women to. They’ve checked them out and feel like they can make the referral. That’s something you dont hear very often, huh?
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June 27, 2011 at 2:20 pm
Kent, I’m wondering how many CPC’s you have visited or are you just listening to the pro-abortion propaganda?
I used to run a CPC and we have never hurt anyone. It’s funny how you worry about CPC’s hurting women when we aren’t the ones who suck their children out of them through vacuum pipes,perforate their uterus, perforate their bowel, render them sterile, or cause untold emotional harm. What CPC’s do is offer help and ask them not to kill their kid. Such bad guys we are! We should be banished from the earth!
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June 27, 2011 at 3:58 pm
Talk about listening to propoganda, Deanna. Let me ask this: I’ve admitted that there are bad abortion clinics. Are there possibly any bad cpcs out there that try to take advantage of women? Or are we totally wrong and you are so totally right??
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June 27, 2011 at 4:40 pm
i really don;t know the answer to that question. I have never seen a bad one but I’m sure that one may exist although I really don’t know what the point would be. They mostly volunteer their time so I don;t know why they would waste it to torment pregnant women. I think that the real issue is the difference in perspectives. What the abortion advocates call deception is not deception but rather the view as opposed to the pro-choice view. For example, for every study you guys have that show no Post abortion syndrome we have a study that shows that PAS is real. You guys have a study that says it’s not. So, if we quote our study in your eyes we are deceiving and vise versa. This same scenario plays out with almost every issue. So,it’s not deception as much as it is perspective. Not saying that there is never deception, there possibly may be, but it’s not the norm as far as I can see.
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June 27, 2011 at 6:33 pm
Foe about a month now I’ve been adding this to my nightly prayers: “Thank you Jesus for deanna.”
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June 27, 2011 at 8:22 pm
Deanna, have you ever heard of the Pearson Foundation manual which taught anti abortion advocates how to set up “phony” abortion clinics and how to deceive women into not having abortions? google it and then tell me what you think.
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June 27, 2011 at 11:39 pm
I have not personally seen this manual or even heard of it before but i looked it up and there are answers to some of the complaints.
1)The Pearson Foundation manual, How to Start and Operate Your Own ProLife Outreach Crisis Pregnancy Center, urges antiabortion counselors to give deceptive answers. For example, it cautions, “Do not tell the client that she is or is not pregnant.” Instead, counselors are advised to only say whether test results are positive or negative.
This is because they are not licensed medical personnel. If they tell someone they are pregnant or not pregnant they are practicing medicine without a license. All that they can legally say is what the test results are.
2) They show shocking and misleading films and pictures of mutilated fetuses and stillborn babies. They won’t let women leave until the end of the video or until they have looked at all the antiabortion information, even when the woman realizes she has made a mistake going there.
I don’t know how they could keep a woman there against her will. This makes no sense. The films that are shown are usually a fetal development film that is very accurate like the one made by National Geographic. And/or a pro-life film that shows the reality of abortion. This is for educational purposes because the reality is that some women are not informed at the clinics. they think the baby is a “blob of tissue”. The CPC that I was with showed one BUT we told the women up front when they called to make an appointment that we offered free pregnancy tests and information and the appointment would take about an hour. There was no deception. As we took them through the process we asked them if they minded watching the film and no one ever said no.
3) They refuse or fail to provide contraceptive information. The Pearson Foundation manual explicitly instructs counselors “never to counsel or refer for artificial contraceptives or sterilization.” They advise unmarried women to abstain from sex, presenting abstinence as the only way to avoid pregnancy.
Again, they are not licensed medical personnel in most cases. they cannot recommend contraceptives. It is illegal for them to do so unless it is an over the counter product and then it would be questionable. Also, of course they counsel for abstinence if the person is unmarried considering it is a ministry.
4)Their offices are filled with information that is one-sided.
This is again the perspective issue. From the pro-life perspective the information is very accurate based upon studies and pro-life physicians reports. None of the information that I know of is undocumented it is simply from different sources that the pro-choice sources.
5)Some of these centers offer ultrasound (also known as sonograms). But that does not mean the personnel operating the equipment are medically trained.
This is true although in most cases they have taken some training. However in any case unless they are licensed or certified (in some cases they are) they must be extremely careful in what they report to the woman. No medical opinions or advice can be given.
6) They want to pray with the woman.
We always asked first. It was ALWAYS welcome but I live in the bible belt so that’s not unusual. However, I can see how in other places that may be an issue. But I am sure they ask first. It is common courtesy. All a woman has to do is say no if she is uncomfortable with that. With that said,most if not all of these centers are run by people of faith. So, it is not “strange” that they would offer to share that faith. Also, by it’s nature a CPC is established for the purpose of talking a woman out of having an abortion and then providing practical needs if she decides to have the baby. Therefore should anyone be surprised that they try to talk a woman out of having an abortion? To be offended at that is absurd.
While I do not agree with deceptive practices, lying, etc, I frankly see nothing wrong with having a neutral ad that says nothing about providing or not providing abortions. If the ad says free pregnancy test and counseling and the woman goes there for a free pregnancy test and gets counseling then isn’t that what she went for? However, if a direct question is asked like,”do you do or refer for abortions?” Then I think the only appropriate response is the truth.
At the CPC I was with we had a 24 hour phone line that women could call and get phone counseling. I know that many/most others do that as well so I don’t see how the argument of “they wouldn’t tell me anything until I came in” applies. Although as I said it may in some situations but I don’t think this is the norm. Most came for the free pregnancy test and were happy to listen for that reason alone. I think this happens in the majority of the cases. As a side note, I read one complaint that said the pregnancy tests were the same ones you get at the drug store. This is most likely untrue. Those tests are too expensive to purchase and give away in bulk (most CPC’s are run on a shoe string budget). We ordered ours from a medical supply company as I am sure most CPC’s do.
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June 28, 2011 at 4:57 am
Halleluiah!
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June 28, 2011 at 12:55 pm
The Mills should be shut down.
They are Satan’s dens of deception.
The Mill’s defenders are no better than the Dark Lord himself.
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June 28, 2011 at 1:35 pm
Oh for heavens sake!How melodramatic can a person be? Be serious! The CPC’s are there to try and save babies lives and save a woman from the pain of having gone through and abortion. They are run by volunteers normally who give up their FREE time to help people. They have given away tons of free baby furniture, food, diapers, formula, maternity clothes, found housing and in some cases payed for the housing for pregnant women. The volunteers have taken women home with them when they had no place else to go (I personally did this). They help set them up with doctor appointments, drive them to the appointments, help babysit the baby after it is born (I personally did this). ALL FOR FREE! The list goes on….dark sinister evil folks they are! Doing all of that helping and saving of lives, they should be ashamed!
Contrast that with all those nice people over at the abortion clinic calling the baby a “product of conception”, a “blob of tissue” and a “pregnancy” in order to take away the humanity of the baby. You know those ones caught on tape by Live Action telling the girl that there is nothing there,just tissue, taking the women’s money and then helping them out by dismembering their baby and cutting it’s head off. Such nice folks they are!
Let’s make the CPC’s that save lives out to be the spawn of satan while the ones that actually kill the babies are the good guys? yeah that makes sense!
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June 28, 2011 at 1:43 pm
About 5 years ago I went to a pregnancy center, and they talked me out of getting abortion. I trusted what they told me.
I was 2 months pregnant and they told me that an abortion was very dangerous and there was a good chance I could die.
I had my baby, and I love her very much.
But I have done some reading and I found out that they did not tell me the center did not tell me the truth.
They also said they would help me.
They basically have given me no help at all.
Life has been very, very hard.
I cannot make enough money to take care of my three children.
I wish the center would not have lied to me.
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June 28, 2011 at 2:16 pm
I wish they had not lied to you either and there are many documented cases where abortion has been very dangerous. Included many women dying so it wasn’t entirely untrue. I have an entire book full of them. You just don’t hear much about that because the clinics try to keep it quiet.
Also, they should have helped you. A lot of the CPC’s have very limited funds and rely on donations to keep the doors open so they can be limited in what they can do. Others have large funding sources and can do more. But at any rate they should have followed through with their promise.
I am glad that you gave birth to your baby. I am sure that she/he is a source of joy for you even though it has been hard. When you say that you wish that the center had not lied to you, do you mean that you wish you had gone through with the abortion? My parents tried to abort me and I am living proof that things work out. They thought that they could not afford to have me and we lived in poverty but in the end it all worked out. If you care to go to my blog and read my story it may help you see that things will not always be hard. Also, on by blog are some links to some help agencies that may be able to help you. If you will email me privately I will try to get some more information an put you into contact with some others. My email is on my blog. You can get there by clicking on my pic.
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June 28, 2011 at 3:40 pm
I mean I wish the CPC was not such a horrendous source of lies.
The told me so many wrong things.
Maybe Mary is right? They had Satan in their hearts instead of Jesus?
Why do the pregnancy centers do that?
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June 28, 2011 at 4:26 pm
Not all of them do or many of them for that matter. Although I really don;t think that them telling you that abortion was dangerous was a ‘horrendous source of lies”. It can be dangerous. They still should have helped you though if they told you that they would.
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June 28, 2011 at 5:09 pm
Well in our study,
17/20 did.
That is a very high percentage and statistically significant.
Yes you are right. They should have helped if they said they would. We have a longitudinal study going on to see how well they adhere to these promises as well. We’ll see what the results are.
Given their present performance, the outlook is dim. But we will collect the facts and report on them objectively.
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June 28, 2011 at 5:12 pm
Let me add that they tell women they will not be able to get pregnant again and Abortion is very dangerous.
It is a well known fact that abortion is one of the safest procedures done in this country, so to tell someone it is very dangerous s an outright lie.
The fact that you misrepresent this yourself, and ignore the facts is disturbing.
Especially since (? is our memory correct?) you work in a CPC.
That would mean you are part of the problem.
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June 28, 2011 at 5:31 pm
I do not currently work in a CPC.
What I said was that abortion CAN be very dangerous and it can be. I have a book with about 1000 (thats a guess but it is a huge number, maybe even more) DOCUMENTED cases of deaths, bowel perforations, uterine perforations, sterility, infections , etc. as a direct result of abortions. So for me to say that they CAN be dangerous is not deception in any way.
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June 28, 2011 at 7:50 pm
Unreal to the the posts of these cretins like this DeAnna.
It CAN be dangerous to drive your car to the CPC Mill.
Do you warn people of that ?
Did you warn women about the possible dangers of pregnancy?
Or only the single selective issue of the extremely rare abortion complications?
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June 28, 2011 at 7:59 pm
Once again Garrett what i said was that they CAN be dangerous. Just because driving a car CAN be dangerous does not negate the fact that abortions can be also. No I did not warn them of this because it had nothing to do with the topic at hand.
As far as the name calling goes (Cretin), see the post at the end of this thread.
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June 29, 2011 at 10:30 am
You did not say whether you mentioned the dangers of pregnancy.
To not balance that against the lesser dangers of abortion is a symbol of your trend of misinformation.
So self absorbed you are in your propaganda.
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June 29, 2011 at 11:03 am
Now I’m self absorbed? Funny!
Are you asking me if I spoke to the women that I counseled at the CPC about the dangers of pregnancy? The answer to that is no. When I worked at the CPC I didn’t counsel on the dangers of anything. There was a film that we showed them that covered all of that. We did give them literature that explained the dangers to take with them. As far as pregnancy goes if their test was positive we referred them to a physician that could confirm that they were pregnant and give them detailed information about their particular situation and let him explain the medial facts to them. A CPC is not there for the purpose of telling women about the details of the dangers of pregnancy. They are there to try to help her decide to give life to her unborn child and if she decides to do so then a physician takes care of the medical issues while the CPC tries to help with the practical ones.
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June 29, 2011 at 11:35 am
DeAnna:
“What I said was that abortion CAN be very dangerous and it can be. ”
Yet you still have not confirmed that the dangers of pregnancy were discussed.
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June 29, 2011 at 11:52 am
No, actually what I said clearly was that they were NOT discussed by me. I refer you to my comment.
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June 29, 2011 at 12:09 pm
Garett is correct.
I suspect Carrie’s documentary will be yet another testament to the false hoods of the CPCs.
I’ve seen CPC tapes myself.
They are disgusting misrepresentations of fact.
Anyone who would show these to a woman is lying to her and doing her a great disservice.
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June 29, 2011 at 7:10 pm
Wow, this is amazing.
This blog is really showing me how bad prolifers are.
These prolifers are expert dodgers of questions.
DeAnna never addressed the misrepresentation of telling people Abortion can be dangerous without mentioning the dangers of pregnancy being even greater in proportion.
This is a hands down despicable way to help women.
I am disgusted by these pregnancy centers.
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June 29, 2011 at 8:08 pm
Actually I did answer it very clearly. I refer you to my previous comment.
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June 30, 2011 at 10:42 am
I called a different pregnancy center today in another town just to see, and they lied to me also. I am beginning to think from all that I have read that these centers typically lie, and maybe the rare one’s do not.
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June 28, 2011 at 2:28 pm
I think Mary’s talking about the killing places, d.
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June 28, 2011 at 2:51 pm
Maybe but someone earlier called the CPC’s a ‘mill”. Mary, if you were referring to the abortion clinics then I applaud you. If you were referring to CPC’s then my statement stands. It stands anyway for the others who have made out like the CPC’s are the bad guys while the ‘good guys” kill babies down the street. Come on people let’s keep a sane perspective here!
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June 28, 2011 at 3:37 pm
The CPCs are mills of misinformation.
They harm women and that is general knowledge.
Just like the moronic Catholic Church that created more killing, murder, and pedophiles than any group in the history of civilization.
You prolifers are such laughable morons.
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June 28, 2011 at 4:30 pm
“The CPC’s are mills of misinformation”
Please provide documentation to back that statement up or it will be considered a propaganda slur.
“They harm women and that is general knowledge”
Again, documentation or it will be considered propaganda.
“Just like the Catholic church”. what is just like the Catholic church? The CPC’s? In what way?
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June 28, 2011 at 5:16 pm
Please refer to the endless references on the site, studies, videos, etc.
A comprehensive review can be done in this short space, especially for such a well known fact.
Your unwillingness to be anything but a puritanical nut just makes you a waste of time.
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June 28, 2011 at 6:00 pm
I see no “endless” references to back up the claim that CPC’s are “mills of misinformation”.
If you can’t back it up it is useless propaganda.
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June 29, 2011 at 10:33 am
DeAnna you supply the information that the CPCs distribute misinformation yourself. You are a great source to counter your own claims.
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June 29, 2011 at 11:04 am
What are you talking about Garrett?
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June 29, 2011 at 11:32 am
It’s very frustrating to converse with you and your lack of knowledge.
You told people Abortion Can be dangerous,
yet
You did not tell them Pregnancy CAN be More dangerous.
Highly disingenuous, reveals your bizarre lack of logic and intentional attempts at misinformation.
Your own actions, that You describe are great evidence against yourself.
Oy, I don’t have the energy to talk to such ProLife morons.
Prol Lifers routinely provide extensive misinformation.
They are worthless scum in this regard.
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June 29, 2011 at 11:56 am
So now I’m worthless scum? You really are the gentleman aren’t you? Again, I explained to you fully why I did not counsel women on the dangers of pregnancy. I refer you AGAIN to my previous comment.
You know Garrett, we are attempting to have an adult conversation about adult issues. Name calling is really not necessary and frankly it shows your maturity level very well. I suggest that you try to take a more adult approach to these discussions if you desire to be taken seriously.
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June 30, 2011 at 10:44 am
Garett you are 100% correct.
I have been to several CPC Mills and witnessed it with my own eyes.
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June 30, 2011 at 5:51 am
Just like the moronic Henly who created more killing, murder, and pedophile attacks than any person in the history of civilization.
You “Henly supporters” are such laughable morons.
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June 30, 2011 at 10:44 am
?????????
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June 27, 2011 at 10:59 am
Anti Abortion worms are just plain idiots who have no idea what they are talking about.
Just reading their posts here on this blog reveals that so clearly.
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June 27, 2011 at 2:15 pm
id·i·ot (d-t)
n.
1. A foolish or stupid person.
2. A person of profound mental retardation having a mental age below three years and generally being unable to learn connected speech or guard against common dangers. The term belongs to a classification system no longer in use and is now considered offensive.
Kelly, we know enough to know that killing a human is wrong! We are not foolish or stupid enough to condone such practices. And ask any three year old if it’s ok to kill a baby and see what they tell you. You may be surprised!
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June 27, 2011 at 3:59 pm
So, Deanna, I assume you are against the death penalty, correct?
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June 27, 2011 at 4:29 pm
Actually, I would prefer that the death penalty not be used but not for the reasons that you might think. If a person is dead they have no way of changing. Death is final. At least if they are alive in prison they have a chance to change.
Also, I really don;t think you can compare the death of a criminal to the death of an innocent baby.
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June 27, 2011 at 8:23 pm
I ask because you said “the killing of a human is wrong.” I assume that means you are against wars as well, correct?
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June 27, 2011 at 9:40 pm
Of course if I had my way there would be no wars. I think to kill each other is stupid when you could just be rational. But, since I am not the one making the policies about that I don’t make the rules. I hate war. The only time I think was is appropriate is in self-defense if we are attacked (as in 9-11)or possibly (and I say that carefully) if someone is being attacked and we are trying to defend them., But again this is self-defense) At the root of war is some evil self centered person somewhere doing something to benefit himself not caring about the rest of humanity. (Civil war=slavery etc.) But defending oneself in war is very different than killing an innocent human in the womb.
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June 28, 2011 at 12:50 pm
So DeAnna,
It is OK to kill in a war?
Would you kill in the Afghan war? Was that self defense?
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June 29, 2011 at 8:16 pm
Antol,
I answered this question already but let me make it clear. I do NOT approve of innocent children dying in war, who would? But war is a reality that I have absolutely no control over. It is a reality in our world. With that said, I do also believe that if we are attacked as in 9-11 that we should defend ourselves. As far as the Iraq war goes I do not think that war was justified since the reason that we supposedly went was weapons of mass destruction that they did not find. But at the time the American people did not know that.
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June 28, 2011 at 1:38 pm
The afghan war was justified I believe because it was self defense. They (the bad guys being hid out by the afghans that is) attacked us.
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June 28, 2011 at 3:31 pm
So it was OK to kill thousands of civilians in Afghanistan because of a minority rogue element?
Are you saying that killing the civilians was an OK collateral damage, just misfortunate?
Killing innocents in war is inevitable.
So if you do not want to kill, then you just made another stupid statement.
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June 28, 2011 at 4:31 pm
What I said was the war was self defense and it was.
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June 28, 2011 at 5:18 pm
So answer the question,
stop evading,
that is basically all you do,
is it OK to go to that kind of war and kill thousands of civilians collaterally?
What do you say to the parents of Afghan children?
“Ooops . . . Sorry about that, But I do believe killing is so wrong that I would not kill a cell!”
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June 28, 2011 at 6:07 pm
Ok. I will play your game. I do not like war. I hate war. I didn’t invent war. I don’t make the rules of war. I didn’t fight in the war. But if someone comes here and attacks us and we defend ourselves against them and civilians are killed in the process then I HATE THAT FACT but since I am not the one calling the shots are making the policies and pulling the trigger I have nothing to do with that. I wish it were not that way. It is simply a fallout of our stupid fallen evil world. Do I like it, no! Do, I approve of innocents getting killed? No! can I do anything about it? No! Does this mean that I think we should sit in the corner sucking our thumbs and let America get attacked and do nothing to prevent it from happening again? No!
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June 29, 2011 at 7:16 pm
DeAnna,
that was not an answer to the question of civilian deaths.
Just as you do not approve of killing a cell, most people do not believe it is justified to kill a child colaterally in a war.
What about the pre emptive Iraq war. Was that one OK?
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June 29, 2011 at 8:18 pm
Antol, I put the answer above on accident, you can scroll up to read it.
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June 30, 2011 at 5:54 am
Pro-Death worms are just plain idiots who have no idea what they are talking about.
Just reading their posts here on this blog reveals that so clearly.
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June 27, 2011 at 11:07 am
Hey Kent, if they close the clinics do you really think abortion will stop?
Come on, wake up
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June 27, 2011 at 11:11 am
Kent wanted the CPC Mills closed.
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June 27, 2011 at 12:49 pm
Thanks for clarifying, Kelly….
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June 27, 2011 at 2:12 pm
Ach! These AI’s!
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June 27, 2011 at 2:09 pm
“It was a cash business. The price was right for the service provided…But we had volume. The receptionists at the desk collected the fees, and when the cash boxes overflowed, as they did nearly every day, they filled the drawers…counting it was time consuming; sometimes it didn’t get done right away. When the banks weren’t open, we just closed off a room and put the none-too-neat piles of money in it. By the end of the weekend, you’d open a door and walk into a sea of money.”
Don Sloan, M.D. and Paula Hartz. Choice: A Doctor’s Experience with the Abortion Dilemma. New York: International Publishers 2002 p 44
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“Everyone knows this clinic is profitable. We have made money. It would be foolish of me to say that this clinic isn’t profitable.”
Marilynn Buckham, director of GYN Womenservices, the Buffalo area’s biggest abortion business, quoted in “For Some, Abortion is a Business … and Business is Good.” Buffalo News, November 24, 2002,
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From the article “Abortion Businesses Struggle to Compete Against Others” (New York Times Dec. 31, 2000) “Some abortion practitioners have refused to train colleagues, fearing that they will only help a potential competitor in a lucrative, cash-only business.”
William Ramos
abortionist
Washington Times: Abortion fare wars, 1-3-2001
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“I find this – performing abortions – to be a very rewarding practice, emotionally and financially.”
William Rashbaum
abortionist, NY city
The Boston Phoenix: Cruel to be kind, In the twilight of his career, a late-term-abortion doctor tells all , Issue Date: December 5 – 11, 2003
“You would go home with a g*damn barrel of money.”
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Sorry, not buying! These are only a few of many quotes by the abortion industry.
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June 27, 2011 at 2:14 pm
I defer here to deanna.
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June 27, 2011 at 2:31 pm
Another clueless anti abortionist.
Why are you even blogging?
You could be helping children?
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June 27, 2011 at 2:43 pm
I am assuming that you are talking to me Jerome. How about you actually go look at my blog. Look at the about DeAnna section and see what I actually do for children before you get on that trip. Also,look at the post titled, “Insight into the mind of an abortionist” . There you will find a complete answer to your accusation. That argument has been done to death on this blog and proven false. So, a different argument with some actual intelligent content may be better.
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June 27, 2011 at 6:38 pm
Well, Jerome, you sound like a child. And if you don’t watch out, you’ll turn into an AI. So, here’s what I want you to do. Read everything deanna posts three times, with dictionary. Then start believing in
God and start praying to him. You’ll be amazed at the change.
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June 27, 2011 at 4:02 pm
I admitted that there were/are docs that make money and that there is competition. And, e.g., Rashbaum was one of the docs in NY that i referred to. Do you just think that every thing I saw is a lie??? And everything you say is the truth?
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June 27, 2011 at 4:25 pm
No, but I think that overall they make money and lots of it. Why else would they do a job that many of them admit is horrible/
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June 27, 2011 at 8:25 pm
And where did you get that “fact” that “many of them admit is horrible?” Can I get the exact citation for that one??
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June 27, 2011 at 9:32 pm
“This can burn you out very, very quickly…not so much by the physical labor as the emotional part of what’s going on. When you do an ultrasound, particularly if you have children, and you see a fetus there, kicking, moving, living, doing things that your own child does, bringing it’s thumb to its mouth, and things like that- it’s difficult. Then, after the procedure, sometimes we have to actually look at the specimen, and you see arms and legs and things like that torn off…It does take an emotional toll.”
Abortionist Dr. Ed Jones, Nancy Day. Abortion: Debating the Issue (Enslow Publishing: New York)
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“When I can identify the four chambers of the heart, I start feeling miserable. And when I put my hands on somebody to feel how big they are and I get kicked, I am barely able to talk at that moment.” Diane M. Gianelli, “Abortion Providers Share Inner Conflicts,” American Medical News, July 12, 1993
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“I guess I never realized I would find [performing abortions] as unpleasant as I do. I really don’t enjoy it at all. It’s not a rewarding thing to do…”
New York Abortionist
from The New York Times Magazine, January 19, 1998
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“[Among abortionists] we’ve had guys drinking too much, taking drugs, even a suicide or two…There have been no studies I know of the problem, but the unwritten kind of statistics we see are alarming.”
Dr. Julius Butler
The Philadelphia Inquirer August 2, 1981
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“Many subjects reported serious emotional reactions which produced physiological symptoms, sleep disturbances, effects on personal relationships, and moral anguish…Reactions to viewing the fetus ranged from “I haven’t looked,” to shock, dismay, amazement, disgust, fear, and sadness…Two felt it must eventually damage [the doctor] psychologically…Two respondents described dreams which they had related to the procedure. Both described dreams of vomiting fetuses along with a sense of horror. Other dreams revolved around a need to protect others from viewing fetal parts, dreaming that she herself was pregnant and needed an abortion or was having a baby…The more direct the physical and visual involvement [i.e. nurses and doctors] the more stress experienced.”
Warren Hern and Billie Corrigan “What About Us? Staff Reactions to the D & E Procedure” paper presented to the Association of Planned Parenthood Physicians
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[D&E abortions are] far more psychologically traumatizing for the doctors … I can’t do them anymore.” Abortion Doctor quoted in The Philadelphia Enquirer, July 18 1993
*********************************************************************************************
“After it [abortion] became legal, I tried performing them for a while. But when I get home. I feel rotten. And yet I absolutely feel it’s a woman’s right. So now is the patient wants one. I refer her to someone else, someone I know is skilled and reasonably priced. Does that make me a hypocrite?” Louise Howe. Moments on Maple Avenue: the reality of abortion, Warner Books Inc, 1986 p 20
William P. Given M.D., attending obstetrician gynecologist New York
hospital, professor, Cornell medical school
********************************************************************************************
I realize that some of these quotes are older but the principal still stands. It’s not like abortion is any easier to do now than it was then, emotionally speaking.
There are more quotes if you want hem also.
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June 28, 2011 at 5:05 am
Amen
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June 28, 2011 at 7:55 am
And I can give you quotes from docs who love their work, so nanny nanny poo poo…. There are always anecdotes that we can all toss around. I just dont think we should take them and then generalize. E.g., I could name right now off the top of my head at least 100 docs who love their work. Oh yeah, but I forgot – it’s because of the money
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June 28, 2011 at 8:15 am
Pat I think (my opinion) that it would have to be for the money. I mean who could “love” their work of dismembering a baby unless they were demented? I have read many quotes from abortionists who say that at first it bothered them but then they “hardened themselves” and got used to it or “choose not to think about it”. I can see where a person could do that and get callous about and proclaim that they love it. But they harden themselves for a reason, that being that a normal person with a conscience can’t do that without it bothering them unless they do harden themselves. Logic tells you that. I bet if they uncovered all of the stone in there and got down to the truth most would admit that they didn’t like it. Bu tI am sure that there are some demented folks out there who justify it in their heads enough to be able to cut a baby’s head off with a smile.
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June 27, 2011 at 2:34 pm
Do any of you pro lifers pay taxes?
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June 27, 2011 at 2:43 pm
Of course we pay taxes.
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June 28, 2011 at 11:29 am
If you pay taxes you support and subsidize Planned Parenthood and other organizations that perform abortions.
You and you tax paying pro life compatriots are culpable in supporting the system.
Don’t you think you should stop contributing to paying for abortions?
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June 28, 2011 at 12:19 pm
Unfortunately we are given no choice in the matter except to try and elect officials that will de-fund PP. Believe me we are trying.
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June 28, 2011 at 12:39 pm
Well,
that is not true.
If all you Pro Lifers just stopped subsidizing abortion perhaps that would send a strong message to the legislature?
If you think that you are helping murder and dismembering babies why would you continue to do that? It is perplexing – the disconnect.
Just stop paying for it.
It really is that simple.
You must not think murdering babies is a bad enough thing to stop paying for that action.
And what about you Dunkle? Do you pay taxes, and subsidize abortion?
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June 28, 2011 at 1:00 pm
That really is a strange argument. It is illegal for us to stop paying taxes. They are automatically taken out of payroll. We have no choice in the matter. It’s not like you can just decide to stop paying them. Unless you are suggesting that every pro-lifer in the nation break the law and be put into prisons, quit their jobs and become homeless, add millions of children to the foster system, cause the economy to crash into the worlds worst depression because millions of people would be out of work, homes would be foreclosed on and the government would be strapped to take care of all of the dependents of the tax evaders filling the prisons. Not to mention the lack of tax revenue from the incarcerated pro-lifers to do all of that with. I really don’t think that is the answer. But even if we all did that it still wouldn’t defund abortion because Obama is in so tight with PP that if it were the last thing to go he would still insist on giving them their million dollars per day.
As a side note, there was a movement a few years back of conscientious objectors to paying taxes (not necessarily because of abortion). The IRS went after them hot and heavy and shut the movement down sending some to prison. I really don’t think that millions of pro-lifers being in prison will stop abortion.
This reality has nothing to do with us not believing that murdering babies is not bad enough. Rather it has something to do with us knowing that it will accomplish nothing and instead cause untold chaos. It’s a wisdom issue. The problem is not the pro-lifers lack of doing anything. we just voted out a host of pro-abortion legislatures and will try to do the same in 2012. Instead of breaking the law the most effective thing to do is to change the law.
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June 28, 2011 at 1:09 pm
Of course you could stop paying taxes.
So,
you would rather subsidize Abortion and kill babies, than take the minuscule chance you would go to jail?
The US will not place a third of the citizens in jail. The US cannot even incarcerate the ones they want to already. The penal system is already too overcrowded. DeAnna, you do not make sense.
Are you so selfish that you would rather Kill Babies than perform some symbolic form of civil disobedience? You lack credibility.
But you do subsidize abortions.
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June 28, 2011 at 1:42 pm
Actually I don’t subsidize anything because I have no income. But, as I said earlier the most effective way to stop abortion is to change the laws, not put the pro-lifers in prison.
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June 28, 2011 at 1:49 pm
DeAnna,
You do not have ANY income?
How do you live, eat, anything?
How do you take care of your children?
What about ProLifers that somehow live by using income?
Some thoughts apply to them. The question is not specific to you or your (doubtful) claim of zero income.
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June 28, 2011 at 2:24 pm
I am a stay at home mom. I have no income. My husband does and his taxes are automatically taken out of payroll. He has no choice in the matter. We normally 0 out anyway. As far as the other pro-lifers go the answer would be the same I assume. They can do more good by changing the laws (as proven by the numerous pro-life laws passed in the states since last November) than going to the federal pen seeing how that still would change NOTHING about what organizations Obama insists on giving our tax money too. He is committed to PP because he and the Mrs. are buddies with Ms.Richards, pro-lifers taxes or not. As shameful as that is.
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June 28, 2011 at 3:16 pm
Still dodging questions.
Typical pro lifers.
Zero out?
You mean you do not contribute to our society and pay taxes?
Your husband has income and you do not?
Are you not a dependent? Do you file jointly?
Sounds like you are very disingenuous to me with the “no income” line. That was just preposterous.
You have income into your household.
If you and your husband pay no taxes then you are just another freeloader off all of us that have to subsidize people like you.
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June 28, 2011 at 4:37 pm
Zero out means that we have enough LEGITIMATE deductions to have zero tax liability.
That does not make me a free loader anymore than it makes the other millions of tax payers who take deductions free loaders.
Also, we were talking about ME. Not my husband. I personally have no income.
Listen how about this….talk to me when you have an intelligent remark to make about the subject at hand. Personal attacks are child like and not necessary.
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June 28, 2011 at 5:23 pm
You are a moron. You did not even answer the questions.
Why bother talking to an illiterate?
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June 28, 2011 at 6:09 pm
What question did I not answer?
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June 28, 2011 at 1:29 pm
That is hilarious!
I never thought of that!
The ProLifers ARE subsidizing abortions,
abortions they think are killing babies,
yet they still will not take the chance on civil disobedience like you say.
Reveals their true colors.
If they really believed that abortion is killing a baby they would not subsidize it. They are morons.
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June 28, 2011 at 1:40 pm
No, we are wise enough to realize that if we are in jail NOTHING gets accomplished!
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June 28, 2011 at 2:04 pm
Did you miss the point DeAnna?
You claim no income so you would not go to jail.
And the government cannot jail a third of the nation.
You make no sense.
You cannot support your bizarre claims as I witness in every single post you write.
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June 28, 2011 at 2:36 pm
Bizarre claims in every single post I write? Name them one by one with documentation to prove that they are bizarre or stop accusing. It’s juvenile.
Actually the numbers of pro-life Americans is much larger than a third. According to the latest Gallop pole 51 percent of American’s think abortion is immoral in most circumstances. With only 39 percent saying it is a moral choice. Further, 61 percent think it should be illegal in most situations.
So, if somewhere between 51 and 61 percent of the population stopped paying taxes we would have chaos and our country would collapse. Trust me, it’s better to change the laws which we are effectively doing at the state level.
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June 28, 2011 at 3:23 pm
Why would anyone bother?
It would take a tome you write so much nonsense.
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June 28, 2011 at 4:38 pm
Nonsense? what part was nonsense?
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June 28, 2011 at 5:21 pm
Deanna,
everything you write is nonsense.
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June 28, 2011 at 6:25 pm
Name one thing that I said that was nonsense and backup your claim with documentation to prove that my statement is false or otherwise your statement will be baseless. Ans since you said “everything” I wrote was nonsense you are obligated to back up that accusation up as well.
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June 29, 2011 at 6:11 pm
I have been lurking, but I must chime in here with a hearty LOL to Garrett, who seems to think convincing the women of the world that pregnancy is dangerous is a good idea. Good luck with future generations! Also with Amy and Richard, one proposing breaking the law by not paying taxes, the other immediately calling Deanna a freeloader the second he thought she didn’t! As for all the war statements, most people hate war and killing, but find it a necessary evil. I would think that INTELLIGENT pro choice advocates would at least say the same about abortion, rather than trying to convince people that the doctors enjoy it and think it’s a fun day at the park or something. Does anyone really deny that it’s the death of a human anymore, even the medical profession? I would doubt the credibility and possibly the sanity of any medical professional who “enjoyed” something so heart wrenching to the women going through it, not to mention the gruesomeness of it, which cannot be denied by any rational, thinking person or dis-proven in fact. This is what I see on so many sites, whether it be about this issue or any other; people resorting to name calling and silliness rather than intelligent discussion which leads to change, or at least to understanding our fellow man, even if we disagree. As far as this discussion, Deanna not only answered the questions completely, but made a good argument as to what would happen to our economy should a large number of the population stop paying taxes, whether there is a threat of jail or not. There are people on this board doing some powerful avoiding of the obvious, but it’s not her!
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July 3, 2011 at 3:47 am
JAJAJAJAJAJAJA
i love love LOVE that concept, amy!
i often employ that when i see a lifer calling a choicer a babykiller.
of course i run the risk of a choicer piping in and stating that there is no0 federal funding for abortions, in which case i point out that if the federal funds that are earmarked for services other than abortion were not available, the private funds that are used for abortion would have to go for that.
and too, when the mexico city policy/global gag rule was rescinded, it made federal funds available for abortions abroad.
still, i am SO glad to see a choicer use one of the same points that i like to make.
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June 27, 2011 at 4:02 pm
What are you getting at, Amy??
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June 27, 2011 at 6:39 pm
Pat! Don’t ask Amy something you know she cannot answer!
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June 27, 2011 at 8:26 pm
Maybe she’s trying to get you on tax evasion, John, just like they got Capone!!
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June 28, 2011 at 8:16 am
Actually, what some of the old prolifers have done is avoid owning anything in case they’re sued. So they shift ownership to one of their kids. So they can say, “Filing a suit against me will get you nowhere. I don’t own anything”
It’s one way to avoid responsibilities for their actions.
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June 28, 2011 at 8:35 am
Documentation?
That is a pretty stiff accusation, how could you know that and WHY would they possibly get sued for being pro-life?
What “actions” are we avoiding responsibility for? Trying to talk women out of abortion? Educating? Side walk praying or counseling? Having a pro-life blog? Exposing the lies and cover ups of Planned Parenthood? Working at CPC’s? Having PAS ministries? Donating clothing, food, housing? Digging baby parts out of dumpsters? Free speech? Which evil thing is it that pro-lifers are getting sued for?
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June 28, 2011 at 7:57 am
It amazes me, Deanna, how you can look at the Pearson Manual and just poo poo what they were advocating (like suggesting that their folks wear medical garb so the woman thinks they are in a medical facility). In 1991 or so, there was even a congressional hearing on their deceptive advertising practices. Let me ask this: if they are not trying to lure women into their facility, why would they advertise under “abortion services”?
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June 28, 2011 at 8:17 am
I’d suggest watching 12th and Delaware for a documentarian’s insider perspective of one cpc in Florida.
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June 28, 2011 at 12:45 pm
The CPC Mills are horrible.
My friend and I went undercover to film them.
We are editing the footage now.
We visited more than 20.
We could not find one that was honest and that did not lie as a matter of complete routine.
One simple example:
17/20 (!) of the CPC Mills told us that if one had an abortion they could never get pregnant again.
The documentary, we suspect will be very interesting.
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June 28, 2011 at 2:04 pm
I have serious doubts about that but lets just say for the sake of argument that it is true. You guys would rather pick on CPC’s that are trying to save lives while you support Planned Parenthood who covers for child rape, human trafficking, and lies to girls about there being “nothing there but tissue” to get their abortion money. All of this really makes me wonder about some things. Why is it if your crusade is all about the women and their ‘choice’ do you hate it so when they choose to not have an abortion with the help of a CPC, deceptive or not? I mean, in the end does it matter really how she came to the conclusion not to have an abortion? The real issue is this: Is it her choice or not? Why is her choice valid and respected ONLY if she makes it in conjunction with an abortion clinic or Planned Parenthood?
You complain because some CPC’s MAY have deceptive practices. We know and have documented proof that some abortion clinics have deceptive practices. The difference is that when the abortion clinics deceive someone dies but when a CPC deceives there is the possibility that someone lives. As I have said earlier, I do not condone deceptive practices but if I had to choose which I thought was the worst deception it would be a no-brainer. The one who does it to kill and get money would be the worst. Unless of course I had another agenda to discredit the CPC”s. But why would a person want to do that? Why would someone want to discredit an organization that is trying to convince a women to give her child life? Hmmmm, there must be some underlying reason why they say they want less abortions but yet try to discredit the very ones that try to make that happen. It’s a mystery!
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June 28, 2011 at 2:08 pm
Again,
because the CPC Mills lie and are deceitful as has been well documented by the innumerable documentaries and legislative interventions against these barbaric CPC institutions.
They are the modern versions of past Catholic horror and atrocities.
How many Catholics subsidize Catholic Priest Pedophilia by giving money to that heinous institution?
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June 28, 2011 at 2:42 pm
Innumerable documentaries and legislative interventions? Documentation please. I know of only one “legislative intervention” in NYC and it was overturned. Do you know of others? If so where is the proof?
Barbaric CPC institutions? What is Barbaric about trying to save a baby’s life? I think that it is Barbaric to tear a baby apart by it’s limbs and decapitate it. This is what the CPC’s are trying to prevent.
Catholic horror and atrocities have absolutely nothing to do with the abortion issue or CPC’s.
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July 3, 2011 at 4:05 am
soooo… let me see if i have this straight.
financially supporting the catholic church whose charities are among the most effective world-wide due to evidence of abuse among members -BAD! 😦
financially supporting PP despite evidence of coverups of sexual abuse of children, human trafficking, etc. – GOOD! 🙂
OK i gotcha!
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June 28, 2011 at 8:27 am
I didn’t actually find the manual, only a few quotes from it (that I addressed above). If you know of a link to the actual manual I would like to see it.
If it does say to wear medical garb then yes that is deceptive and no I wouldn’t do it. Although I suppose the reasoning is to “get them in there at any cost to save a life.” If you think about the baby in “real’ terms as a real person like pro-lifers do then you have to understand that to them it is acceptable. If you were out to save a group of two year olds and you had to trick someone to do it then you would think that was justified, would you not? To a pro-lifer that baby is as real and as valuable as any two year old.
I DO think they are trying to lure women into their facility (the ones who use these practices). I definitely think that. But again, you have to realize that they see it as saving that two year old. It is not trickery for the sake of being evil but for the sake of saving a life, therefore to them justifiable.
I do not think there is anything wrong with advertising under “abortion” in the phone book as long as there is no deception in the ad. If it said “free pregnancy test and abortion counseling” then that is not deception because it is exactly what they get albeit from a pro-
life perspective.
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June 28, 2011 at 9:25 am
One study shows that a large percentage of women going to the clinics do not really want the abortion. CPC’s can help weed those out by offering “ways out” of the forced situation and giving counseling on alternatives. I never have understood why pro-choice folks are so anti CPC if their true goal is to lessen the number of abortions and give women the choice to abort or not abort. If the CPC folks talk a woman out of abortion then isn’t that proof that she didn’t really want it anyway? Also, I know you guys will use the argument about CPC’s using inaccuracy in their info. Again, that is perspective based. But lets play devil’s advocate and say for the sake of argument that the give false info on purpose and the woman decides to give birth. Is that such a bad thing that she decided to give birth? To me it only indicates that she was unsure to begin with and perhaps looking for a way not to have the abortion. A woman who is sure that she is sure probably cannot be talked out of it. So, with that knowledge, why do pro-choice folks hate CPC’s so much since we supposedly have the same goal which is to reduce the number of abortions?
One study 64% of American women felt pressured by others.
More than half felt rushed or uncertain, yet 67% received no counseling. 79% were not told about available alternatives.VM Rue et. al. “Induced abortions and traumatic stress: A preliminary comparison of American and Russian women,” Medical Science Monitor 10(10):SR5-16 (2004).
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June 28, 2011 at 8:50 am
Deanna,
There’s no accusation so you can put the gun down. Are prolifers involved in legal actions? Yes. You, of all the informed prolifers who exist, should know that.
It takes detective work to find out things.
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June 28, 2011 at 9:29 am
I am sure there are a few random ones who are involved in legal issues but you said they had given their property over to others to avoid responsibility if they are sued. Where is your proof for that statement, or was it an assumption?
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June 28, 2011 at 9:44 am
Sorry my ignorance but i got to ask, what is CPC?????????
I guess is something related to abortion, of course, but sometimes i get lost in these abbreviations…
🙂
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June 28, 2011 at 9:53 am
It’s a Crisis Pregnancy Center or Pregnancy help center.
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June 28, 2011 at 10:42 am
Thanks Deanna…
Now that i know what it is i can ask this…. Why to close a place where women can go for help, not talking about abortion, but i am saying about a place that a women/teen who find themselves pregnant after a “one night of fun” or so can go to maybe help them deciding in to keeping the baby. Because i have to say this, back in 1984, i was only 15, and my doctor said to me as soon as she put the ultrasound machine on my belly that if i knew i was pregnant, my first question to her was if i should have an abortion, remember that was in Brazil, ages ago, and the doctor, very nicely said to me, and i quote: “when i got my diploma as a doctor i promised never to take a life and always to save lives, but taking in consideration of your age if you were at the beginning of your pregnancy i would say yes, but you are 16 weeks pregnant already and it would be dangerous for you to do such a thing.”
So, after she said that, and i got up from the exam bed, i left the doctors office with a feeling that i was carrying inside of me a baby and that baby was from the man i love and i even asked my baby to forgive me to have asked that to the doctor.
Sometimes we, in a moment of despair, think or may take action that we can regret later.
So with that being said i believe that the “CPC’s” are a place that sometimes can help you in making a decision, maybe i am wrong, but don’t see a reason to close the place. If a woman is decided to have an abortion, she won’t go anywhere for advice, she will look for a clinic and that is it, but if she consider to go to a orientation place before she make a decision is because she is considering to keep the baby, i think!
Yes, i went thru a lot of problem during my pregnancy and i did consider the “fetus” at the time to be already a baby and the reason for that is that i wanted that baby, i wanted to be pregnant, i wanted all of that. Different when women don’t want any of that right!
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June 28, 2011 at 11:26 am
Sonia,
I agree with you that CPC’s are a good thing and they serve a very important purpose in helping a woman to know all of her options. Pro-choice people sometimes hate CPC’s and want them closed because they feel that the information that they receive there is incorrect. But it is not incorrect it is just from the pro-life perspective. I definitely think that the good they do outweighs any bad.
Your comment that “If a woman is decided to have an abortion, she won’t go anywhere for advice,” is generally true, which leads to another “problem” that pro-choice people have with some (not all) CPC’s. Some CPC’s set themselves up to appear to be medical clinics until a person walks in the door and then they find out it is a pro-life pregnancy counseling center. The pro-choicers argue that this is deception and honestly it is. But, the pro-life argument would be that it is deception intended to save a life, therefore it is justifiable deception. But anyway, this is why they want them closed.
Also, what you said about you seeing your fetus as a baby because you wanted it and others not seeing it as a baby because they don’t want it is also true. Women do that. But the pro-life argument is that it is a baby no matter if the woman wants it or not. Therefore, they try to save it’s life.
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June 29, 2011 at 8:27 am
The thing about the CPC’s not being truthful with the purpose of why they are there bothers me because i prefer to deal with the truth. Good or bad the truth is always better to know up front. For example if a woman goes to one of the CPC’s and is told that she can’t have an abortion because it is too late for that and force a woman to go to the term with that pregnancy is so wrong, because they are “forcing” that particular woman in making a decision out of a lie.
Just imagine this, a woman who “was” in a relationship but find out that her EX is a bad person for whatever reasons so she walks off the relationship not knowing she is pregnant and a month later “ta-dah” she find herself pregnant, alone and unemployed. So she goes to a CPC because she is undecided and they trick her not saying the truth right! She will still be alone and unemployed but now with a bigger responsibility that in about 9 month will become even bigger, instead tricking this women to keep the pregnancy why they don’t say the truth and help that person finding a job so she can feel more brave to overcome the situation. Because we all know very well that when we lose a job and there is no income the despair will get bigger and bigger and the emotional toll that people pay will end up affecting the child who is to born. So i don’t think is fair to anybody including the child who will be born in that situation.
My point is, the pro-choice or pro-life sides all have their reasons. I don’t agree 100% with either sides because i do believe in having the power to decide myself what is best for me or not. On the pro-life side i agree and understand that having abortion to whoever wants is a way of letting them go around having sex over and over and having abortion over and over.
Also about adoption, there is so many kids out for adoption but because they are not “puppies” anymore they are overlooked… So if both parties were REALLY interested in having abortion a better approach they should get together all the money they get from where they get and invest that money in education for teens “without lies”, education for these kids that are growing without parents or love inside adoption institutes so that way they would be able to understand better the system and when the time comes they would be responsible on making their decisions. Invest this money that are gather to improve quality of life of the kids that are for adoption. The wound is deeper than all of this discussions because at the end, even though i am not sold on abortion i am sold on knowing that all pro-lifers are doing all of this for the unborn but the ones crying for some love inside orphanages are totally ignored. So why don’t both sides stop with the hypocrisy and start doing what is really necessary to be done?
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June 29, 2011 at 10:41 am
Again Sonia, you have spoken wisely. The CPC’s should not lie. Although MOST do not. The ones that do lie are very few and as far as I know the only thing that they lie about is that they make themselves look like a clinic to lure the women in so that they can talk to them. They then give them information about fetal development and abortion. I am sure that there are some that lie about the facts of abortion or fetal development but that is not the norm. Also, you are right about the pro-choice side lying also. There are documented cases of this. Just last night I read the “Pregnancy Options Workbook” that is given to women by abortion clinics as part of their “counseling” when considering abortion. Right away I saw several problems. One being the pictures of fetal development. They were little cartoon looking drawings that were not accurate. It shows a drawing of a 13 week fetus that looks like an actual 5 week fetus. The pictures of the 8 and 10 week fetus’ are not accurate either. There were other serious issues with some of the “counseling” in that book as well. So,my point is that that you are right. The truth needs to be the thing that is told!
As far as what you said about the ones crying inside the orphanages goes. I am going to post part of an article from my blog that answers that question :
“Most pro-life Christians go to churches that have programs, some of them massive para church organizations, that feed, clothe and house needy children. These pro-lifers financially support these programs through their churches. So, they do take care of the children. Programs such as Feed the Children, The 700 club, James Robinson, Warm Blankets International, Rainbow Kids, etc. (I could go on and on for pages listing them) are all Christian based, and they are doing EXACTLY what the author said that we do not do. Many, if not most adoption agencies are Christian based, and they are placing children from all over the world into loving adoptive homes. I have personally adopted 4 children, one special needs child with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, another special needs child with parental mental health issues, and one teen. I have supported Orphan relief efforts as well as inner city efforts. I am a certified foster parent. There are many many more who do much more than I do, some giving up lucrative careers to help these children. Furthermore, we start unwed mothers homes and crisis pregnancy centers that furnish baby furniture, car seats, maternity clothes, infant clothes and any other supplies needed in order to help with practical needs. We have food programs, housing programs and medical programs.”
So, the point is that we are trying to take care of the orphans. But as I have stated before more could be done.
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June 29, 2011 at 10:55 am
EXACTLY… Much more could and should be done. I already told you this and i will repeat, in my eyes you are the only PRO LIFE in this page who does something and i Congratulate you for that. Because those who come in here and talk and talk and talk goes in front of clinics to point fingers and scream their lungs out that is all they do, and that is a problem. We all know that some of this protesters do that only for the money the ones that do that for the principal of being a pro-life means take actions like you do. I do not have economical situation to become a foster mother or even to adopt a child, i would love to, but for sure i won’t qualify. I am realistic on my situation and like i said before i prefer the truth.
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June 29, 2011 at 11:14 am
What do you mean protester protest for money? I have never heard of that.
It is true that if EVERYONE did more to help the orphans we wouldn’t have an orphan crisis. This is a rich nation and frankly it aggravates me when I see some of the lavish lifestyles of people (Christian,Pro-lifers, Non-Christian,Pro-choicers alike) knowing that there are children hungry in orphanages. When I traveled overseas to Asia to the orphanages it changed my life. I never knew that poverty like that existed. (I think that this may be part of the problem, we American’s are so used to having everything a part of us thinks the whole world lives like we do.) I no longer look at “things” as being important to me. It’s people that are important, both born and unborn.
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June 29, 2011 at 11:46 am
Travelled to Asia?
That money could have been used to help starving children right in your own town!
Must be nice to be able to afford the extra cash to travel to Asia, especially when you have
No Income
and
Pay No Taxes
As a Moderate, who pays a great deal of taxes,
I would appreciate it if you chip in some cash, and stop playing the tax loop hole game. You conservative creeps are so similar. Complaining about tax laws when you do not even pay taxes yourselves!
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June 29, 2011 at 12:13 pm
Garrett I traveled to Asia to adopt orphans and take relief supplies to the orphanages.
Your baseless accusations are getting old. And for the 3rd time. Name calling is juvenile and not necessary.
Not that I owe you an explanation for your derogatory insults but if you must know the reason that we have zeroed out in our taxes is because of tax credits for adopting special needs children. So, it is not a tax loophole game. It is a credit that the government gives people off their taxes for adopting international and/or special needs. We have done both. Also, FYI this tax credit is what allowed us the funds to travel to Asia. Are you finished with your unfounded judgments now?
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June 29, 2011 at 1:33 pm
You are right Deanna, you don’t need to explain nothing to none one, specially because name calling is sooooo abusive and lack of knowledge for a better argument.
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June 29, 2011 at 7:29 pm
That is crazy!
We subsidize people that want to ban the most used contraception to take care and raise unwanted pregnancies.
That is absurd.
I don’t want to subsidize trips to Asia. There are enough kids right here that need help in your neighborhood. What a waste of my tax money!
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June 29, 2011 at 8:27 pm
Seriously Richard is that the only argument that you can come up with? That you don’t want your tax money to subsidize adoptions of special needs children (from the USA, i might add) and children starving in orphanages overseas? Really? Do you even hear yourself? But you WILL subsidize abortion through your taxes? Amazing!
FYI: The tax code gives credit to adoptive parents who adopt internationally and domestic special needs to OFFSET the cost of these adoptions. I took nothing from taxpayers. As I said earlier it simply made our tax bill zero so that we DID NOT NOT PAY TAXES UNTIL THE CREDIT RAN OUT! So, you subsidized NOTHING!
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June 29, 2011 at 1:38 pm
Well, everything is about money right? Meaning, the protesters goes in front of clinics to protest and they tape that or are taped in order to gather money from organizations, either for Pro-lifers or Pro-choice side. So they do that in order to show how active they are in their “battle” and with that acquire money. I can be wrong, but from where i see i am not. You advocate what you do because you, again, do take action for what you believe in. Different than others who only does is to talk.
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June 29, 2011 at 3:13 pm
Sonia, I personally don’t know of any nor have I ever heard pf any pro-lifers making money from standing in front of abortion clinics. Most who do this volunteer their time. Many have given up lucrative careers in order to stand out there and pray. One organization called bound4life (you can google them or there is a link on my blog) simply stands in front of abortion clinics and pray silently never speaking a word. They believe that prayer is the most effective thing that they can do to stop abortion. They also pray for the clinic workers because they know that some of them are miserable in their jobs.
There may be a few pro-lifers who make money off of books, I really don’t know but I assume they make something. But I don’t think anyone who prays or protests at the clinics makes money. As far as I know no one buys the films of them doing this because they are generally amateur films and I don’t know who would buy them anyway.
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June 28, 2011 at 12:51 pm
DeAnna,
how much time do you spend trying to get rid of the horrible killing of Capital Punishment?
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June 28, 2011 at 2:44 pm
Absolutely positively NONE! I am too busy trying to save innocent babies. Once abortion is done away with maybe I can take up that cause 🙂
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June 28, 2011 at 3:02 pm
That really doesn’t compare anyway. The small number of criminals that are killed by capital punishment each year in no way compare to the 1.2 million babies who die from abortion each year.
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June 28, 2011 at 3:26 pm
How do you make a gradient of your killing prevention endeavors?
What about pedophile priests? That harm live children right now?
What do you do for them or against the dangerous Catholic Church of Pedophilia?
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June 28, 2011 at 4:43 pm
Absolutely positively NOTHING. I am too busy trying to save the lives of unborn babies.Maybe once abortion is stopped I can take up the cause of getting rid of the Catholics. John, I’m look out I’m coming for you sooner or later. HAhAHAHAHHA!
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June 28, 2011 at 5:31 pm
Get me first. Then you go for the others. I think there’s one in Arkansas. I believe two are still living in Hawaii.
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June 28, 2011 at 5:37 pm
Bahhaha! I saw a couple in Birmingham one day. Don’t worry folks. I’m going to get right on that doing away with the evil Catholics (especially the bothersome baby loving pro-life ones) once abortion is banished.
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June 28, 2011 at 7:26 pm
I think I’m safe.
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June 29, 2011 at 7:31 pm
I think Abortion is safe.
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June 30, 2011 at 4:06 am
That’s what I meant, doops.
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June 29, 2011 at 1:07 pm
You pedophile loving, war mongering Catholics will all be sent to hell by our dear sweet Lord Jesus Christ – the one and only path to salvation.
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June 29, 2011 at 1:30 pm
MaryAnn, that sure is a lot of hate for someone claiming to know Jesus. I don’t think that He would think that way. I am not Catholic by the way.
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June 29, 2011 at 4:33 pm
The sweet baby Jesus and the Holy Spirit and God will judge you just the same. Make no mistake. You mess it up and you will be sent to an eternal damnation.
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June 29, 2011 at 8:29 pm
What is it exactly that I am being judged for? Trying to save babies?I am confused by your comment.
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June 30, 2011 at 6:01 am
You pedophile loving, war mongering people like Mary Ann will all be sent to hell by our dear sweet Lord Jesus Christ – the one and only path to salvation.
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July 3, 2011 at 4:27 am
what do you do to eliminate the rampant abuse of children within the public school system that is far greater than that of any other entity?
you DO realize that you financially support pedophilia by paying taxes that subsidize this, right?
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June 29, 2011 at 6:47 pm
I have not spent a lot of time surfing abortion/pro-life sites, but I can recognize a rational, intelligent discussion when I see one. I see it in Deanna and Sonja. Then Donna chimes in with Capital Punishment? I am forever perplexed as to why pro-choice advocates make themselves look like uneducated buffoons afraid of facing reason and rationality. So if Deanna is against abortion your argument, Donna, is to try and convince her she really doesn’t care about life if she isn’t also against Capital Punishment? Really? You are serious? I am for the world’s continued growth and development, but I don’t feel the need to chain myself to a tree. I am against the needless slaughter of whales and seals, yet I don’t work for Greenpeace. I feel sorry for all women out there, especially the young girls that the pro-choice advocates seem to care so much about, trying to find accurate information should they turn to these blogs. From what I see here in my living room, you don’t care about a woman’s choice, based on INFORMATION, you care about discrediting pro-life advocates, and not very rationally at that.
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June 29, 2011 at 7:32 pm
Dwanna,
is Abortion ever OK?
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June 29, 2011 at 8:35 pm
Oh my heavens, I have to dig through all these posts each time to answer?! I thought having replies emailed to me would take me to the post in question. Dang. Richard, let me save you the trouble: I am pro-life, AND I’m against war, AND I’m for capitol punishment. I am totally patriotic, so much so that I would support your right to burn the flag while loathing every minute of it. I pay taxes and hate that they go to fund abortion, and work to stop that practice, but have no intention of going to jail for it. I am not an idiot, moron, or barbaric, but a grandmother with a belief system. I believe in a real God who wrote a real bible, and who still interacts with me today. I believe that there are times that I may have to put my very life in his hands, (and have) such as if I was facing down an intruder, cancer, or a dangerous pregnancy. I would no more “choose” to end a dangerous pregnancy than I would “choose” to throw my infant granddaughter to a pit bull so that I could escape. I would also never advise a rape victim to compound their emotional upheaval by doing something they may later regret, at a time that they are certainly not thinking rationally. If they decide they can’t deal with it later, someone will gladly adopt it, a family will be born, and the rape victim will finally see some good in life again. Let me also save you the time: my daughter was raped, so I can speak to it. I have also educated myself with facts about this issue, as well as biblical precedents, and know that the large percentage of terminations aren’t for the life of the mother or rape. They are for convenience. I believe that any thinking person who advocates across the board for abortion with no regulation at all is not only uneducated about the matter, but has no understanding that acknowledging the sanctity of life benefits all of life, while not acknowledging it is a slippery slope leading to a society I do not wish for my grandchildren. We don’t even kill animals helter skelter, but regulate it. I am totally against abortion and totally for a woman’s right to choose, WHEN that right doesn’t infringe on the rights of someone else. Yes, to the person who asked me, whose comment I can’t find, I believe a cell is a baby. A preformed baby. A pre-born baby. What else is it, a flower? It’s not sperm or egg, it’s now something else. When I eat a fried egg, I am eating an unfertilized egg if someone has done his job right, so I can’t call it a chicken, but it is still protein, it’s design is still to be a chicken, and had it been left alone it would be. The argument that it isn’t a human life is preposterous. Talk about being deceptive and not telling women the truth! The problem is that we are raising a selfish, self centered generation who has never heard of the word sacrifice much less practiced it. You find yourself in an unwanted pregnancy for whatever reason? Grow by leaps and bounds by putting that child before your own rights, just as you would expect a police officer to put himself in harms way to protect you from an intruder, just as you expect that Marine standing on the wall to keep you from being blown up by a terrorist. Protect the innocent. Financially strapped? Access any one of dozens of federal and private organizations that are there, and are helping, no matter who tries to deny that fact. Or put it up for adoption to one of the thousands of people who want a newborn. People WILL pay for that too, and you are in no more danger to birth a child than to abort it, you just have to sacrifice more. And by the way,shame on all of you for your bashing, name calling, and refusal to acknowledge the plain facts right here in black and white. Shame on you for pretending you think this issue is about a woman’s right to choose, when you bash anyone who is different than you. Shame on you for condemning my grandchildren to a world filled with a “me first” mentality.Shame on you.
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June 29, 2011 at 10:06 pm
What she said!
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June 30, 2011 at 4:11 am
Dang, we got another genius here! And I had thought Dwanna was how the AI’s spelled deanna’s name!
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July 3, 2011 at 4:21 am
how much time do YOU spend trying to eliminate that atrocity?
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June 28, 2011 at 2:44 pm
Absolutely positively NONE! I am too busy trying to save innocent babies. Once abortion is done away with maybe I can take up that cause!
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June 28, 2011 at 2:46 pm
Hmm, that was weird. It told me that i couldn’t post that but hen did anyway. Pat there are some bugs in the commenting.
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June 28, 2011 at 2:58 pm
Pat, Pat, stuff is just pouring into this one. And you guys are closing in. The “your taxes, Dunkle, support abortion” blast (see above) is getting close to that other unanswerable pro-death volley: “Dunkle, if you really thought they were killing babies in there, you would do something more than pray and counsel.”
Deanna’s response is powerful, as usual, but it doesn’t work for me. It’s taken a deanna, though, to get you to pull back from Chuckles’ silliness, Kate’s occasional nastiness, and the AI’s stupidities, and move forward your heavy weapons.
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June 28, 2011 at 3:28 pm
That is because you are a JHer and DeAnna denounced your beliefs you moron.
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June 28, 2011 at 4:44 pm
What beliefs of Johns did I denounce?
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June 28, 2011 at 5:32 pm
Amanda is an AI, d. You’ll never get an answer.
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June 29, 2011 at 4:29 pm
You denounced his belief that murdering someone is justifiably OK or celebratory.
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June 29, 2011 at 5:02 pm
Carrie, if you could make this clear, I believe I could help you.
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June 30, 2011 at 4:54 am
Sorry, Carrie, I myself am the illiterate here. Deanna might have denounced my belief that Paul Hill, Jim Kopp, Michael Griffin, Rev. Michael Bray, et al. — all who have used significant force themselves in this abortion war — are awe-inspiring and profoundly worthy. If so, all that means is that we pro-lifers don’t march lock-step.
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June 28, 2011 at 5:03 pm
Do you guys realize how silly your arguments sound?
Pro-life: “You guys should stop killing babies”
Pro-choice: Well you should stop paying taxes and stop funding us!
Pro-life: “That’s silly we would go to jail and the economy would fail”
Pro-choice: Your’e a moron!
Pro-life: “In what way?”
Pro-choice: Silence
Pro-life: “We are wise enough to know that we can accomplish nothing in jail”
Pro-Choice: “Those CPC’s are evil!”
Pro-life: “They are only trying to save babies”
Pro-choice: “They are satan”
Pro-life: “They are only trying to save babies”
Pro-Choice: “They are Barbaric”
Pro-life: ” They are only trying to save babies”
Pro-choice: “Why don’t you pay taxes you freeloader?”
Pro-life: “In what way are they Barbaric?”
Pro-choice: “Silence”
Pro-life: “Can you guys provide documentation for your accusations?”
Pro-choice: “Pro-lifers are idiots”
Pro-life: ” Although some CPC’s may be deceptive, overall they are a good thing”
Pro-choice: “You are so worried about life what are you doing about Capital punishment”
Pro-life: “Nothing. I am busy saving babies”
Pro-choice: What are you doing to stop those evil Catholics?”
Pro-life: “Nothing, John I’m coming for you” (she says with evil laugh)
Pro-choice: “Pro-lifers are idiots”
Pro-life: “Just trying to save babies”
Pro-choice:”Pro lifers are idiots”
Is there anyone on here that can carry on an intelligent conversation with some real meaning to it rather than name calling and baseless undocumented accusations other than Pat or Sonia?
Come on guys I feel like I’m in the third grade!
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June 28, 2011 at 5:35 pm
Boy, you’re tougher than I am, d. I gave them the benefit of adolescence, maybe 8th grade.
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June 28, 2011 at 5:55 pm
Well so far today pro-lifers are “evil, satan , puritanical nuts (me to be exact), idiots, morons (that’s me and John), liars, full of nonsense, pedophiles (you know because we are like those bad ole Catholics), free loader (me again) tax evaders, a worm, stupid, horrendous source of lies, and my favorite….drum roll please….barbaric.”
But I have to admit that I would rather be called all of these names and many more than to be advocating and arguing for babies to be killed.
When you think about the fact that all of this venom is directed at us because we refuse to advocate the killing of the unborn it sounds like a compliment. Sweet music to my ears. Although an intelligent conversation based on facts would be nice.
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June 28, 2011 at 6:10 pm
Oh yeah, I forgot that I’m “clueless and illiterate.” Seems to make people a bit angry when you suggest that killing babies is a bad thing.
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June 28, 2011 at 6:12 pm
Other than Pat, I’ve never found another killers’ helper who could engage in intelligent conversation. Some of them are sweet, like Chuck; and almost literate, like Kate; and some I even love, like my son-in-law. But give them a break — how can they keep their composure when we are saying they’re helping to kill innocent people, as the Nazis did. And Nero.
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June 29, 2011 at 7:34 pm
and the Popes . . .
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June 30, 2011 at 4:47 am
And Ira.
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June 29, 2011 at 12:17 pm
You people are what you are.
You represent yourselves that way.
DeAnna, you don’t even seem to mind that your main compatriots here, John, celebrates the murder of innocent people.
Why do you fail to admonish him for that, and just take his support?
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June 29, 2011 at 12:35 pm
Why would I spend my time admonishing John when there are over a million babies per year being murdered? John writes letters to people in prison. I have no problem with that.
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June 29, 2011 at 4:26 pm
What about burning the American Flag to celebrate a convicted murderer?
Do you have a problem with that?
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June 29, 2011 at 7:35 pm
No Answer – typical Pro Lifer.
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June 29, 2011 at 8:32 pm
I do not agree with burning the American flag but that has nothing to do with me or this discussion.
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June 29, 2011 at 8:35 pm
Ira,
Really? What do you think, that I peer at my computer screen every second of the day just in case someone accuses me and I have to answer them? I WAS NOT HOME! Your judgment was unnecessary. Again,why so much hate?
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June 29, 2011 at 10:18 am
Yikes! I’ve got the sniffles for one day and look what I miss! I dont know where to start. I will say that I get bored when someone tries to make a point by saying that the other person is an “idiot.” I never thought that was a great argument, just didn’t carry a lot of weight. On the other hand, I groan a little when people (on both sides) act as if they are so totally right and the other side is so totally wrong.
As for the cpcs, I was personally involved in “exposing” hundreds of cpcs in the early 1990’s that were engaging in very deceptive practices and basically freaking out women. In response, the congress held a national hearing and the Yellow Page Association prohibited cpcs from advertising under “abortion services.” That’s why there is an “abortion alternative” category in the YP today!! So, at least someone thought there were problems. And, yes, many have cleaned up their act but, as the movie 12th and Deleware showed, there are still some problems.
The bottom line for me is if a woman wants to go to a cpc and understands that they are anti-abortion, of course they can go! And if the cpc says they will help if she doesn’t have an abortion, then they should help versus just letting her go. And please, deanna, do not tell me that you are still helping all of those women who you talked out of having an abortion years ago.
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June 29, 2011 at 10:47 am
Actually Pat I am still in contact with some of them. Most of the women have grown and are doing very well. The children are older and are all good. We live in a small town so it’s not as hard as you may think. One of the children that was saved form abortion talks to me regularly (now a teen) and thanks me for ‘saving” her life.
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June 29, 2011 at 10:52 am
If the “deceptive practice” was simply being listed under ‘abortion” in the phone book then I don’t think that’s a big deal. If the ad indicated in any way that they did abortions then I agree that is deceptive and shouldn’t happen. It’s sort of a non-issue now I think anyway because most people get their info (phone numbers etc,) from the web.
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June 29, 2011 at 4:23 pm
Pat,
She doesn’t get it and never will.
Her brain is a frozen tundra.
Pat you make perfect sense, yet a ProLifer on average cannot understand the simplest of points.
And again she is evasive on your question of helping all the women that they persuaded with misinformation to give birth.
She has no income!
How can she be helping all this women.
The real answer is she is not helping ALL of them significantly at all.
I bet I am correct. Am I DeAnna?
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June 29, 2011 at 6:35 pm
You might be, Carrie. What did you say?
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June 29, 2011 at 7:20 pm
Garrett, Carrie R and Ibraham, go back and read Deanna’s comments and you will be embarrassed. She said nothing like what you accused her of. Coming onto this blog late and reading straight through all the comments is very enlightening. I cannot believe the leaps you have made! It’s all here in black and white, read it again, and come back and admit you were wrong. I am interested in this issue, and thought this blog would be interesting, and boy is it. I’m surprised the author allows the third graders a voice. I insist that my grandkids be respectful of others or they have to take a time out.
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June 29, 2011 at 7:37 pm
Dwanna,
Is a single cell a baby?
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June 29, 2011 at 9:31 pm
Ira, I answered your question in my other post, despite the fact that you again, as do most on this blog, ignored my admonishment to read Deanna’s comments and smokescreened it with your own question, designed to get me into a discussion off base without you ever acknowledging my actual comment. Isn’t that what you all accused her of doing?
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June 29, 2011 at 8:44 pm
AS I SAID CARRIE, they are doing quiet well. The children are older, in their teen years. There is nothing for me to do “to help them” other than be their friend, which I am. I have not worked in a CPC for some years. i adopted 4 children and took time off from that work to be with them. BUT I am still in contact with the mothers that allowed contact and they are doing fine.
I never persuaded anyone with misinformation to get hem to give birth. I simply talked to them and supported them and they chose birth. They have told me that they are glad for that choice as have the children that were saved. So it is very inappropriate for you in all of your choice rhetoric that is apparently a lie to question their choice to give birth after you demand that they be given a choice. That is the definition of hypocrisy.
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June 29, 2011 at 10:21 am
One other thing: how can the doctors like their work? One doctor told me that he merely focused on the woman, the woman who WANTED the abortion. Oh, and of course, there is the millions of dollars they make each year…
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June 29, 2011 at 10:49 am
I have heard that as well, that they focus on the women. I’m sure that some do, but if they were to really look at what they are doing and not block out the fact that they are taking a life I wonder would they still like their work?
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June 29, 2011 at 12:13 pm
ProLifers like this DeAnna above are repulsive to me.
They misrepresent fact constantly.
I love this blog, as everyone can see right through the falsehoods of the anti abortion and their lying rhetoric.
QED
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June 29, 2011 at 12:27 pm
Latisha,
Could you please explain your comment by telling me exactly what I have lied about with documentation to prove that it is a lie? What mis-representations have I made? Also, what is it about me that repulses you? Is it the fact that I try to be a voice for innocent babies who have no voice? Exactly what is it that repulses you so about a person that you don’t even know? Is it my pro-life arguments? They were all documented from non-biased neutral sources. I am perplexed by your statement.
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June 29, 2011 at 12:37 pm
I have been following this blog for a long time – and the pro Lifers are so sickening.
Why should she waste her time?
It is obvious to me as well.
Your blabbering so much nonsense it would be a full time Job to respond to your lies. The time is better spent defending the rights of women to control their bodies.
No wonder you falsely claim to have no income, and don’t answer direct questions, and evade questions, and associate with people that burn American flags to honor premeditated murderers.
No one wants to talk to a person who behaves like that.
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June 29, 2011 at 12:49 pm
Ok then don’t respond to “all of my lies”. Just name one with documented proof that it is a lie. It cannot be done because it was all true statements. Every one of them was documented with non-biased proof.
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June 29, 2011 at 7:38 pm
You said you had no income.
But you do.
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June 29, 2011 at 8:47 pm
No I don’t, my husband does but I don’t. I am a separate person. We were talking about me not him.
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June 29, 2011 at 7:08 pm
Case in point right here. Obviously Latisha is repulsed by Deanna BECAUSE she has made a CHOICE to be pro-life. Pro-Choice is not really about choice for a woman at all, is it? It’s about bashing someone who believes differently than you in order to make yourself feel better about your choice. I feel that the entire world should be grieved over the abortion issue as countless women are in unwanted pregnancies, and countless babies are either killed or born into dire circumstances. I am rational and calm enough to see Deanna’s points that while some, heck let’s say all, CPC’s are deceptive, they are pulling out all the stops in order to SAVE A LIFE, and that this doesn’t make them evil, any more than Amy advocating for breaking the law by not paying taxes makes her evil, and if Deanna did it, it wouldn’t make her evil. It’s okay to have your own beliefs, it’s not okay to base those who differ from you. I have read this whole blog carefully, and have found not ONE incident where Deanna has bashed anyone. We all know it’s a life, it’s been proven and beaten to death that it’s a life. The only leg for pro-choice advocates to stand on is that it’s about the woman’s choice. And they seemingly can’t do that, as far as I can see, because they don’t really believe in a WOMAN’S (Deanna) choice. If she chooses life, she is the devil. Really folks? I am not advocating for Deanna, I am advocating for rational, reasonable conversation. Name calling is the height of childishness.
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June 29, 2011 at 7:39 pm
Dwanna,
Should a woman have a right to choose her own birth control method?
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June 29, 2011 at 9:13 pm
Yes, she absolutely should.
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June 30, 2011 at 2:11 pm
So could you tell DeAnna that if one wants to get rid of Birth Control it is going to be a problem to get rid of the unwanted pregnancy rate?
DeAnna, and her fringe compatriotes want to control your access to birth control.
Why don’t you respond to her?
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June 30, 2011 at 7:48 pm
Ira,do you even read these comments? i am not against birth control. I said that clearly. The only birth control that I am against is the ones tht cause abortions.
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June 29, 2011 at 12:31 pm
I am amazed at the kind of hoodlums these ProLifers are!
They advocate justifiable homicide, killing in war, killing civilians as a justifiable collateral of war, capital punishment, and so on. They are the downfall of the values of America.
America will collapse from these small thinkers.
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June 29, 2011 at 12:42 pm
Hoodlums? Wow! The name calling just keeps going and going. You know what amazes me? Seriously, it makes my head spin…..you said the words ‘homicide” and “killing” (several times) to insult pro-lifers while failing to realize that the very reason that you are saying it is because you are advocating for the killing of over a million humans per year. Why does that make sense to you?
“They are the downfall to the values of America”. Which “values” are you referring to? The value that every person has simply because they are human, both born and unborn, or the “value” that one puts on their “rights” to the point that they will kill another for them?
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June 29, 2011 at 12:57 pm
We are great fans of this blog.
Thank you so much.
Revealing the idiocy of the Pro Lifers daily must be so boring, but thank you for your work.
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June 29, 2011 at 1:59 pm
Can you please explain what you mean by idiocy? Do you mean our insistence that humans shouldn’t be dismembered and decapitated?
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June 29, 2011 at 7:26 pm
Well Cory, you have discredited Republicans for Choice for me. Read her comments again, carefully, and you too will be embarrassed. It’s right here in black and white. I am starting to see a picture of which side really is for “choice” and which isn’t. I can clearly see which side is for rational discussion and which just wants to sling mud. Sheesh. The blindness is glaring.
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June 29, 2011 at 7:41 pm
Dwanna,
Is justifiable homicide OK?
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June 29, 2011 at 9:23 pm
hom·i·cide
noun /ˈhäməˌsīd/ /ˈhōmə-/
homicides, plural
The deliberate and unlawful killing of one person by another; murder
By it’s very definition, and by the law, homicide can never be justified, so I don’t understand your question. If you mean do I believe in taking the law into your hands and killing an abortion provider? No. It is murder pure and simple, no matter what the reason. If you feel that strongly about saving a life, go into the clinic and drag a woman kicking and screaming off the table, get arrested. Repeat. Murder is murder, no matter who does it, or for what reason. Killing, on the other hand, is different. Killing defending this country isn’t murder. Killing defending your citizens as a police officer isn’t murder. Self defense isn’t murder when an attacker won’t stop. Killing an innocent unborn child for your own convenience, even the convenience of living out your own life so they can’t live out theirs, is murder. You are decidedly not pro life if you advocate killing abortion providers or bombing clinics. You are not for freedom if you won’t let someone burn a flag or pee on Jesus as art. Loath it, preach against it, look away, but don’t stop it or you don’t believe in freedom. The thing that everyone seems to have forgotten is that there IS right and wrong, there IS morality. There IS degradation. There IS the right to life. As long as abortion is legal, I have no right to stop you by force. I will, however exercise my power to vote to change the law, my voice to speak out against you, my responsibility to correct you, and my ministry to help you. I will also live a life for my Lord in such a way that he is able to help me love you unconditionally, no matter how loathsome your lifestyle may be. I will love you enough to correct you, just as I did my own children. Abortion advocates, you are wrong. You are stopping a human life from progressing to it’s natural end one day. That is killing at least, murder at most. Stop kidding yourselves, we all pay the price.
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