It was a sweltering July day in the city of Philadelphia in 1776. The delegates to the convention slowly make their way into what ultimately would be dubbed “Independence Hall” but on this day it was still commonly known as “Moe’s Place.” Representatives from the 13 American colonies were there to discuss whether or not to break away from Mother England and set up their own nation. A committee had been formed to draft a statement of principles that would publicly explain to King George and the rest of the world why the colonies felt it was necessary to declare its independence and, in effect, start a war.
The debate over the proposed resolution was intense and went on for days. Should we actually call the King a “tyrant?” How do we address the issue of slavery? Should we be quoting Thomas Paine or Voltaire? Should we refer to God?
Then, suddenly, after days of laborious discussion, a delegate raised his hand and is recognized: “Mr. President, why is there no language that protects fetuses from being aborted?”
There are puzzled looks on the faces of those in the room then Thomas Jefferson, the primary author of the document, calmly assures the delegate that his concern has been met and refers him to the section which says that all men shall be endowed with the right to “life” in this new nation so, he explains, since every baby has the possibility of coming out as a male, you cannot have any abortions!
Somehow I just don’t think that’s how it all played out.
Those who advocate making abortion a crime in this country love to cite the Declaration of Independence and, in particular, the line that says (cue the trumpets!): “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”
Or is it “inalienable?” I always get that part confused.
Anyway, so somewhere along the line the anti-abortion folks started to interpret that passage to mean that everyone has a “right to life.” See! See! The Founding Fathers, those wise old men, were saying that everyone, including those little fetuses, have the right to life! See! What did I tell ya? You gonna argue with the likes of Jefferson, Franklin, Berkowitz and Adams?
Okay, now let’s everybody calm down and think this through a little.
First of all, the fact is that those sage, all-knowing Founding Fathers never said a word about abortion during that long summer in Philadelphia. The word is never found in any of the historical accounts of the process. I mean, just think about about it. It wasn’t even an issue in those days and they had much bigger things on their mind, like creating a new country. Didn’t they have other things to do that were a little more important than abortion?
Second, remember that in those days, when they said “all men” are blah, blah, they really meant all MEN. We know that they weren’t talking about women – God forbid – and they weren’t talking about the slaves either. They were talking about all of those old white people who had the power. So, please do not tell me that, although they didn’t give a rat’s ass about women or slaves, they did care about protecting those little, defenseless fetuses.
This is one of those arguments that is really stretching it a bit, don’t you think?


July 8, 2011 at 5:42 am
So it doesn’t upset you to the point where you would lift a finger to protect the child, but you’ll do whatever you can to make sure shde has another baby, even when she knows she’s not going to take any better care of it. Why do you take the easier course? You ralize you’re behaving according to the principles of aborticentrism.
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July 8, 2011 at 8:43 am
I never said i wouldn’t protect the child. What I said was that I would try to convince her to place it for adoption. If she refused then it would be up to CPS to watch her. The law forbids us from doing anything else. But I certainly wouldn’t talk her into killing it, that is no different to me than talking her into killing Caylee.
No matter how hard you try aborti you cannot protect a kid by killing it.
And John’s right she already has the kid when she arrives there. She can’t make it magically disappear as if it never were by killing it. It’s just dead! Way to protect it!
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July 8, 2011 at 5:40 pm
“aborti,” never RRTL or RESPONSIBLE Right to Life or aborticentrism or even my nickname: you don’t lose focus… just saying.
Don’t undersell your talents to save the newborn. We had a school nurse that spent two years at it, but succeeded in having a cult raided to protect the children. Of course, the courts threw the whole thing out (but a fomer cult member has told his mother-in-law that the nurse was right).
And you still focus on “killing a kid,” and are unable to focus on helping the one you don’t want to. . . But you’re doing well at the fourth level of cognition. I hope you reach the fifth……..
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February 8, 2014 at 4:59 pm
This is really uufesl. I just found out I’ve been sitting the wrong way and my keyboard is higher than it should be. I readjusted everything the way Deanna Savant suggested and for the first time, I feel comfortable using my keyboard and sitting in my chair. It’s as if someone just came to my office and told me how to set up everything so I wouldn’t get tired or stressed.
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July 8, 2011 at 7:44 am
“but you’ll do whatever you can to make sure she has another baby”
Now, Chuck, when you presented this scenario, you said, “What do you do to protect her next child?” As soon as I noted those words, you jumped back into your self-conscious defensive mode and switched them to unreal child.
Look, we both agree (at least you do when you temporarily, so far, forget your unnatural agendum) that she already has the child. It’s too late, at the mill door, to stop someone from having a child because she’s already carrying her in there! The only question, then, for both of us is this: Are we going to try to stop that child from being torn apart, or are we going to encourage them to perform that “procedure”?
Those who take no notice of what is happening stand on the lowest rung of the civilized ladder. Folks like yourself who encourage it occupy the next rung because at least you’re alive. Folks like me who discourage it come next. The top rung is occupied by the select few who’ve sacrificed their freedom or their lives to stop it. Only those on the top rung will will live forever with our creator.
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July 8, 2011 at 9:52 am
So, I start thinking about letting Deanna post on her own blog on these pages but then I see her refer to those that performn abortions as “deranged doctors.” And that makes me wonder if I want to give her a forum because I find that just so mean spirited. You may disagree with what they do, but to refer to them as “deranged” really hits a nerve with me. I think of some of those docs who were killed for doing what they thought was the right thing and it toally pisses me off that you would call a Tiller or Bart Slepian “deranged.” If only once – just once – you could suggest that they at least think what they are doing is right….well, I know you just can’t go there. I have been writing for a while and have always been quick to point out the problems, the inconsistencies, etc., with our movement but I grow weary of someone who is just sooooooo right all the time. It’s impossible to be right all the time and so boring. Neither side has the monopoly on wisdom on this issue…
I would appreciate an apology for calling so many of my friends “deranged.”
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July 8, 2011 at 10:15 am
Well Pat here’s the thing. The word deranged means confused or disturbed. In that context I do think they are confused seeing as how they think that killing babies is justified, disturbed as well.
With that said I probably could have chosen a not so antagonizing sounding word. I am sorry to sound so antagonistic, although I think the word technically fits but perhaps not socially.
I have been reading, “In Necessity and Sorrow” by Magda Denes. It’s a old book. Have you read it? In it she interviewed several doctors who worked in an abortion hospital where they did late saline abortions in NY in the 70’s Pre Roe v Wade. Most of the doctors and hospital workers say that their ONLY focus is on the woman, that they simply do not think of the fetus/baby. One or two sounded very “deranged” as in they made fun of the dying fetus, etc. As for the ones who focus only on the woman and consider her the only thing to think about, I think that they do think they are doing the right thing for her at least, but I also think that they are confused in that thinking. There are two lives there, one dies at his/her hand and he justifies it by saying that it is his duty to the woman. How is that not confused?
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February 8, 2014 at 7:25 pm
What a fun time! You and the clothes brgihten up the web’ screen! 🙂 I love that white jacket. A must have!ps-so funny because I have started a post similiar as to why LJ is the only way to go for gals like us. Great minds think alike I would say. 😉
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July 8, 2011 at 12:25 pm
“Here’s a little ammunition for deanna: Last year NOW produced a video of two late-term baby killers, Leroy Carhart and Warren Hearn, discussing “violence.” This took place soon after a third, George Tiller, had been stopped in his tracks. If you saw that discussion, you would have to say that deanna’s word “deranged” is kind. “Ghoulish” is the word that came to my mind.
Of course NOW never showed it. They’re not that stupid.
So how did I see it? A “prolifer” over here emailed it around in an attempt to stick the violent label on me. She didn’t even realize how bad it made the killers’ helpers look.
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July 10, 2011 at 3:06 pm
Pat,
That was DeAnna’s attempt at an apology?
Dunkle is just an omnipresent blog Jester, its not even worth wasting the time to read his comments.
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July 11, 2011 at 11:04 am
I apologized for being antagonistic in my wording. That’s all I feel the need to apologize for. It was not an “attempt”. It was what it was.
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February 10, 2014 at 7:45 am
Every Monday I write up motivational qtuoes and then I usually post at least one other time, if not twice, that week.I’m learning that you never know who is reading your words. For every person who comments on my blog or on a story I wrote or who sends me an email about a story of mine they read, there might be a number of others who laughed/cried/smiled, etc. because of what I wrote…and I will never know. We just have to keep the faith that our words are doing their job. 🙂
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February 16, 2015 at 10:15 pm
Reading this makes my deoiiscns easier than taking candy from a baby.
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February 17, 2015 at 9:55 am
That’s a sharp way of thinking about it.
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July 9, 2011 at 10:37 am
Let’s face it – doctors generally have a “different” personality, not matter what they practice. And they are very blunt. Having said that, the abortion docs are very committed, especially the older ones who saw many women in the emergency rooms from self induced abortions. But these docs are also human in that they can SEE the results of the abortion. They focus on the woman and her needs but, of course, how can they not feel a little sad about the situation? That’s why I’ve seen some docs/clinic staff/etc. actually pactually participate – at the request of the woman – in some kind of “saying goodbye” ritual after the abortion. Some women ask staff to join them in prayer. Now, Deanna, you can continue calling the docs “deranged” or “confused” or whatever and you can castigate the women but I dont know how anyone with any ounce of compassion in them cannot feel for these women who, for whatever reason, feel compelled to not give birth to their child. Somehow, I just think Jesus would be less judgmental and, yes, mean spirited, than you when it comes to this woman. He certainly wouldn’t be outside a clinic screaming at women….
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July 9, 2011 at 3:55 pm
He took a whip, Pat, to a few crooks and their helpers at the temple. What do you think he’d do the killers and their helpers at the mills! And you’re right, he probably wouldn’t scream.
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July 10, 2011 at 3:09 pm
When you refer to Mills,
are you referring to the
CPC Mills?
or
The Catholic Mills?
or The Catholic Hospital Mills?
or
All of these or a subset?
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July 10, 2011 at 7:56 pm
Jess. I’m referring to to the place where they kill young people, you know, that place where you help them do it.
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July 11, 2011 at 10:45 am
Why would you say that?
You do not know what I do.
What are you talking about?
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July 23, 2011 at 5:33 pm
Are you kidding? You’re a killers’ helper, no? That’s what killers’ helpers do, they help the killers do their job.;
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July 9, 2011 at 5:14 pm
Pat I have never once screamed at a woman for having or even considering an abortion. Never will. I may PLEAD with them not to which is what most so called “protesters” are actually doing.
Also, you mistake telling the truth for not having compassion. I have a lot of compassion for these women. As a matter of fact I think it would surprise you. I see most of them as victims of our society that has trained them that killing their unborn baby is acceptable and I see them as victims of “counselors’ who lie to them telling them that God is o.k. with it (example: Pregnancy Option Workbook). They are victims of their situations and circumstances as well. I know this. My argument is and always has been that they need to know the truth, Which is why I do what I do. I try to unteach them junk they have been taught. You mistake me speaking the truth for judgment. Sometimes speaking the truth is the most loving thing that a person can do for another person. Even if the truth hurts when they hear it. This is not judgment, it is compassion in action. A lack of compassion would be for every pro-lifer to go home, every crisis pregnancy center to close, every clergyman who tells them what the scripture REALLY says, every post abortive ministry to shut down, and for us to leave them with no help at all. What we are doing that I don’t think you guys understand is offering them a way OUT of killing their unborn baby. There are options and we are offering them options. This is not judgment to offer a way out and to counsel a way out or even plead with them to not do it. It is compassion in action. This is that I have never understood about you guys. You say you want the number of abortions to go down but then you tend to hate us because we try to accomplish the same thing. I don’t get it.
As for the docs involved. I agree that they come in all sizes and all reasons but ultimately they know that they are ending a life and the choose to do it. Most people couldn’t or wouldn’t do that to a dog but they do it to humans. That shows me that something is wrong. You said once that they don’t do it for the money. Here is an actual ad for employment with the American Women’s Services Abortion Clinics in the North East. I took this directly from their website :
“Lucrative opportunity for Physician with progressive pro-choice women’s centers. No on-call responsibility. Any specialty will be considered. All MDs/ODs welcome (including GPs, FMGs and residents). No experience necessary, we will train. Flexible Schedules to accommodate your needs. Great opportunity for MDs in private practice who wish to supplement their incomes, or for doctors seeking a Full-time lucrative opportunity.
No on-call. Full-time or Part-time. Any specialty. FMGs welcome. Residents welcome. Board eligibility not required. General Practitioners welcome. No experience necessary, we will train. Must be willing to learn. Must have an active license to practice medicine. Must be pro-choice and respectful of women.”
Some do it for money, some for the women, some because they are such bad docs thats all they can get. But the bottom line is that they all kill unborn babies for a living. They have to be confused to think it’s ok to kill other humans for a living.
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July 9, 2011 at 7:23 pm
Oh my God: “Lucrative opportunity for Physician” — “supplement their incomes” — “Full-time lucrative opportunity”
I’ve been a prolifer for forty-one years and, although I suspected, I never knew. And then the Almighty sent us deanna.
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February 10, 2014 at 7:33 pm
Anonymous- You are clearly an idiot. ANY child is a gift from God. I don’t care of they were dprpoed on a front step by aliens- a child is a precious gift and you should not be on here taking away from Chris and Deanna’s happiness. Take your angry troll attitude somewhere else.
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July 10, 2011 at 3:15 pm
Pat,
What do you do with someone that keeps revealing their anecdotal ignorance?
Someone that calls your murdered friends deranged?
I would apologize, and condemn the murderous ProLifers involved, and the pervasive Pro Life Terrorism that goes on daily.
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July 9, 2011 at 9:04 pm
>>>Somehow, I just think Jesus would be less judgmental and, yes, mean spirited, than you when it comes to this woman. He certainly wouldn’t be outside a clinic screaming at women….<<<
when i was at RV, i was in the situation as the outcast who knew that if she simply touched the hem of his cloak she would be healed.
she was healed and so was i.
pat, i'm very grateful that god is loving and forgiving because it is sure as motherflip that so many people that claim to follow him aren't.
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July 10, 2011 at 1:33 pm
Deanna, your citing American Women’s Services and their ad is a perfect example of why your constant use of anectodes to suit your purpose impinges on your credibility. That chain of clinics is owned/operated by Doctor Brigham, a doc who has lost his license in numerous states and who the abortion industry has been trying to shut down for years. Indeed, years ago I was quoted in the NY Times as warning women to stay away from him. So, go ahead and use AWS as your source, I can’t stop you. Indeed, Dunkle, he owns or owned a clinic in State College in your neck of the woods. eUnkl
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July 10, 2011 at 3:21 pm
Pat,
What do you expect from these Pro Lifers that want to take away Birth Control?
I am so tired of these Pro Lifers constantly representing their lack of understanding of the issue.
They lie constantly, use ridiculous sources and employ terrorism as a tool to “persuade” their position.
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July 10, 2011 at 11:12 pm
Pat, the point was that some are in it for the money. Point proven!
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July 10, 2011 at 4:36 pm
He was here for a while in Reading, but my buddies drove him out.
However, he’s still all over the place. That means he’s a good businessman. Therefore, that he advertizes that way is even more telling.
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July 11, 2011 at 5:27 am
Along these lines, did you see the redheaded killer the New York Times is pushing to take Tiller’s place as Killer No 1? She says she’s in it for the money! She says she couldn’t make a living being a doctor! So she had to turn killer! A medical doctor who couldn’t make a living!
This is the kind of person you killers’ helpers have to depend on to do your dirty work.
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July 11, 2011 at 9:23 am
No, I didn’t see that. The thing that gets me even more than the money is the whole, “no experience necessary, will train” line. And the “Any specialty. FMGs welcome. Residents welcome.” They are going to train them on unsuspecting women who thinks they are getting someone who knows what they are doing. But according to that ‘any specialty line” it could be an ear, nose and throat guy doing the abortion. No wonder this Bringham guy stays in so much trouble. So, irresponsible and scary for those women.
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July 11, 2011 at 9:52 am
Although an abortion is a relatively easy procedure, especially early on, that ad did disturb me as well, especially the “no experience necessary.” Yikes. But that’s Brigham for ya.
Let’s just stipulate that there are bad apples in every profession, in every movement. I would prefer, once we do that, that we focus on the “norm”. So, you folks don’t focus on the sleazeballs in the field and I won’t talk about the true terrorists in yours.
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July 11, 2011 at 11:23 am
Pat, I don’t know anybody who’s called a terrorist by you killers’ helpers, and by the killers’ helpers helpers, other than me. I don’t know anybody who’s called that outside of jail, that is. And I don’t mind your talking about me. In other words no “off limits.”
For starters, comment on this passage that appears at the beginning of every issue of “Abortion is Murder”:
Because I believe we should examine every legitimate means, including force, in our attempt to protect those being tortured to death, I want to hear from people who’ve been forceful. I’d also like to hear from those prolifers and pro-deathers who call force violence.
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