She was 19 and he was 21. She just graduated high school and was working to save so money so she could ultimately attend the local community college. She had dreams of owning her own nail salon. He took construction jobs whenever available and had thoughts of being a site manager. They were both good Catholics so they used the rhythm method for birth control.
Then she got pregnant.
They struggled with what to do. They were too intimidated to go to their priest so, instead, they talked to a friend or two and some family members. Ultimately, they decided to have an abortion. At the time, she was nine weeks pregnant. It was a very sad occasion for both of them but neither could envision how they could raise a child on their income and cringed at the thought of sending their child to a public school in the Bronx. She knew, of course, that she could put the baby up for adoption but could not imagine carrying the child until birth then handing it over to another family. She did not want to spend each day wondering what her child was doing in some other part of the country. It was all a very sad occasion but they did what they thought was best at that moment.
Nine years later, things had changed. They made their way out of the Bronx and started making a comfortable living in Pennsylvania. She was a civil servant and he ran a local hardware store. Then, she became pregnant again. And this time they had their baby.
After giving birth, she started thinking more about her abortion and a transformation of sorts took place. She started thinking that if she had had that first child maybe things would have turned out differently. Maybe there could have been a way for her to finish college and turn things around. She couldn’t stop saying to herself: “what if?” She started reading pro-life literature and discovered resources for women who had come to regret their abortion. She dove in head first, joining organizations and attending rallies.
Like the others who had had similar experiences, she never went out and said that abortion should be a crime, that we should throw women and the doctors in jail for participating in the procedure. No, their approach was more subtle than that, on its face more “caring.” Because they knew that women knew absolutely nothing about their reproductive lives, they merely wanted to talk to them about the affects of abortion, the dangers. They just wanted women to know the “truth.” Their compassion for these women was dripping off the walls.
Of course, they never talk about the millions of women who have had abortions and who, dare I say it, are actually okay today! They don’t’ talk about the person in my family who over the course of 12 years had two abortions and today has the
most amazing family. Yes, in private conversations she will admit that she might think about the two abortions at times, but only fleetingly. It certainly has not affected her to the point where she wants to go out and join some pro-life organization or seek counseling. No, we can’t talk about those women.
Make no mistake about it – these women who have had abortions and now say they are total basket cases have one goal in mind – to make abortion illegal in this country once again. They want to back to the days when women, despite the laws, sought out abortions, often with disastrous consequences. Don’t let the sweet talk fool you. In the back of their minds, they are thinking: “You are killing a baby, my dear” but they will sugarcoat it by dangling before you the prospect that you will be totally paralyzed with guilt for the rest of your life if you get that abortion.
The irony, of course, is these women who now regret their abortion, including the one above, actually had an abortion! They made the decision based on their moment in time, based on whatever information they could gather. And this morning, there is a woman who is facing the same situation.
I have absolutely no problem if that pregnant woman wants to read volumes of pro-life literature. She can go, if she wants, to a crisis pregnancy center and talk to their “counselors.” The more information (if truthful), the better for her decision making process.
But, make no mistake about it. Behind all the nice talk and the offers of assistance, the bottom line is that these women who now regret their abortions thought they were doing the right thing at the time. And they now want to take away that decision making process from the hundreds of thousands of women each year who are in the same position.
Related articles
- Surprise! Crisis Pregnancy Centers Don’t Separate Education, Religion (hayladies.wordpress.com)
- All Pro-life Today 7/26/2011 (deaconjohnspace.wordpress.com)



July 26, 2011 at 8:22 am
Ah, good, I get to be first.
“She did not want to spend each day wondering what her child was doing in some other part of the country.” Now there’s a rationalization I haven’t heard before: I don’t want to worry about somebody; therefore, I may kill her.
“. . . we should throw women and the doctors in jail for participating in the procedure” — only women, the killers should be executed.
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July 26, 2011 at 11:31 am
Abortion is always the choice of the woman.
Abortion is good.
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July 26, 2011 at 12:46 pm
Abortion rights forever!
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July 26, 2011 at 3:22 pm
You mean the doctors should be executed, John?
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July 26, 2011 at 4:19 pm
Not them, no, I mean the serial killers, the legal Ted Bundys, the Adolph Mengeles, the baby killers, those guys. I think the euphemism you folks use is abortionists.i
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July 27, 2011 at 11:05 am
How could you place over 1,000,000 women in jail/ year?
Seriously, the prisons are already full.
Who would take care of their children?
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July 27, 2011 at 7:28 pm
Good question, J. Now we’re talking. For starters, if it were illegal, the mil-and-a-half would drop to less than ten thou (most people obey the law). But even so, that;s a lot a people to put into our already overcrowded jails. Maybe a good whipping would suffice. What do you think.
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July 28, 2011 at 2:12 pm
Your riddle like evasive comments are tiresome.
Can you answer the question?
You do not know it would only be 10,000.
It would likely be more, anyway, pragmatically, stop making Jokes.
What real punishment would you vote for for the women that hire a person to do an abortion for them?
And pragmatically how would that occur?
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July 28, 2011 at 10:06 pm
Shucks, my hope are raised that finally I’ve found an intelligent killers’ helper, and then this: “Can you answer the question?”
OK, I’ll play along. What was that question again? (If you’re like the two dozen other killers’ helpers who keep asking this question, Jer, I’ll never hear from you again.),
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July 29, 2011 at 2:13 pm
Well Dunkle, you are not conversant.
That just reveals you are wrong, and cannot support your opinion.
As I look around that is pretty much all you do anyway. You are basically a worthless nuisance in the discussion.
DeAnna, do you care to answer where Dunkle is incapable.
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July 29, 2011 at 4:21 pm
No. he’s doing good all by himself.
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July 30, 2011 at 7:23 am
Clearly a thread of commentary that reveals Pro Lifers cannot address the simple questions.
Then DeAnna quits out of exasperation and does not answer the question stating the absurd notion that the other Pro Lifers above have done a good job at answering the questions, when in fact they have only made foolish remarks to serious questions.
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August 1, 2011 at 8:49 pm
Ms Elena Carvin,
I have answered this same question multiple times on other threads and don’t want to go through the ridiculously long conversation that always follows. If you are really interested in knowing my answer you can go back and look it up.
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July 27, 2011 at 11:06 am
The women that buy the Abortion Pill on the Black Market and perform the abortions themselves, would you execute them?
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July 27, 2011 at 7:31 pm
Another good question! Where have all you smart guys been these months! I wouldn’t execute them but I haven’t thought much about other punishments.
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July 28, 2011 at 2:14 pm
Well, again, do not evade, give areal answer.
What would you do with women that were the abortionist?
There would be many as already proven in countries where abortion is illegal with severe penalties.
Please do not evade again, it will make me stop conversing with you if you cannot carry on a conversation.
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July 29, 2011 at 4:47 am
I don’t want that to happen, so here goes.
No, I would not execute them. I would take into consideration that they are desperate. Instead, I would find out who was manufacturing and selling these poisons. Those I’d execute.
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July 31, 2011 at 4:40 am
“it will make me stop conversing with you” — these guys! They threaten to stop talking to you if you don’t answer their questions. So I answer them twice. They shut up anyway!
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July 26, 2011 at 8:53 am
Abortion should always remain the Woman’s choice.
Abortion should be safe and legal.
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July 26, 2011 at 9:59 am
I agree and will always vote for access to Abortion doctors.
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July 27, 2011 at 3:29 am
Kaitlyn, Amy, Earl, and Carly, we know that. It’s boring to tell us something we already know.
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July 29, 2011 at 7:51 am
“Dunkle”..what is more boring??? That is the duet… the one that is sung by “Dunkle -n- De” a very tired song!! Seems like it’s a “country -n- western” a bunch of “rednecks” butting into other peoples business…that is usually the way it goes…people that did NOT ask for your opinion..but you seem to find it necessary to give it anyway!!
That is what is BORING to me …. I suspect it is BORING to some of the other people that comment on this page!!!…OH!! WAIT!! ONE MORE THING!! I find …BORING!! That is the reams of CRAP!! that DE spews on here!! She gets so “long winded” it is impossible to read it!!
Does anyone agree with me?? Do ya’ll find that “BORING”???
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July 29, 2011 at 8:11 am
“it is impossible to read it!!” For you I know it’s hard, LDM, but impossible? Use a dictionary and go very slowly. I’ll be you’ll be able to do it!
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July 29, 2011 at 8:25 am
Actually my opinion was asked for.
If you don’t read what I write then how do you know it is crap?
If it’s so boring then why are you even here?
What makes you think I am a redneck? Because I think killing babies is wrong? If So…well then….rednecks’ arise 🙂
Do you know what a chihuahua is?
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July 29, 2011 at 10:46 pm
jajajajajajaja
i’m with you on that lorraine.
she blathers on in her posts forever, just repeating the same hatred and BS.
i would enjoy some new refreshing hatred and BS
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July 31, 2011 at 4:43 am
“i would enjoy some new refreshing hatred and BS” — you do read your own stuff, don’t you, Rog?
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July 26, 2011 at 9:50 am
My 19-year-old sister got pregnant back in the bad old days just ater Roe v. Wade. She was pummelled on all sides as to what she ought to do. Her roommate said, “Wow! We can raise the coolest kid!” (This was the Sixties, and that statement contained a lot more than is apparent on the surface. Two years later her roommate vanished to lead her own life.)
She resolved her issue by looking at our older sister, eight years older than she, who had gone to college, moved to NeYork to work in the theater, joined the USO, and been around the world three times by the age of 27.
My kid sister said to herself, “In eight years I could be doing what I’m good at, or I can be a single mom with no education, no prospects and an eight-year-old living in public housing.” She made a choice, and she’s been happy with it ever since. She finds life very enjoyable.
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July 26, 2011 at 10:58 am
The3y say Lucretia Borgia found life very enjoyable.
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July 28, 2011 at 2:16 pm
????
Translator . . .?
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July 28, 2011 at 4:56 pm
Lucretia Borgia, noted for her deviousness, malice and skill with assassination at a remove. Not an apt comparison for my relative described above, but applicable to my cousin’s wife, who has never had an abortion… Go figure!!!
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July 28, 2011 at 9:58 pm
Lucretia and you sister, Chuck, killed another or others, and then lived happily ever after. Did your cousin’s wife, maybe, kill older people?
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July 26, 2011 at 10:55 am
Advertising always cause damage… no matter when, how or who!
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July 26, 2011 at 11:31 am
Nobody knows what the future holds. If you will regret, if you will think about it every day of your life. That is for sure! But even though both scenarios are there and only time will tell what it will happen. I think that each and everyone should decide on their own what to do. This thing about “guilt” and “sins” are so OLD that makes me sick of my stomach… You pay here for what you do… Point blank… What goes around comes around… I don’t agree with all abortions but i can’t decide on somebody’s life bases on what i believe or not. I will not be responsible for that child in the years to come, actually no one will besides the woman who is pregnant.
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July 26, 2011 at 1:23 pm
Ultimately it is the right of a woman to choose abortion for herself that is of most importance.
Abortion availability is the key to an equitable society.
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July 29, 2011 at 1:42 pm
Unless you are the baby being aborted. If you are that baby then there is no such thing as an equitable society, you are a nuisance, a parasite, a bother, dispensable, and unworthy of the opportunity given to other humans. You are useless and something to be killed at another’s whim. It’s easy to be pro-choice when you are not the one being killed.
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July 30, 2011 at 4:46 pm
>>>It’s easy to be pro-choice when you are not the one being killed.<<<
and it's easy being pro-life when you're not the one being pregnant with an unplanned pregnancy.
it's far more difficult being pro-life when you need to get off your loose caboose and actually do something to help the women seeking abortions and the babies they are carrying as well as any other children they might already have.
it's called walking the talk, deanna. you might try it sometime. real lifers could use the help.
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July 26, 2011 at 12:37 pm
Pat wrote that “in private conversations she will admit that she might think about the two abortions at times, but only fleetingly.” In my research with women who have had abortions and in scholars who focus on abortion and regret, this notion you speak of, Pat, is consistently that women overwhelmingly go on to live happy, healthy lives after their abortions.
I would suggest that this fleeting thought that you reference is similar to what I would call a memory, much like those memories women have about many circumstances in their lives–the what-ifs that are a colossal waste of time and energy over the past. But the misinformation about deep, destructive regret or post abortion stress disorder are just that–partial or incorrect information.
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July 26, 2011 at 3:20 pm
And, of course Kate, the pro-life movement will find those women who say they are traumatized and while there may be some out there my guess is that they have a lot of other issues as well. But abortion is a hot topic and when they come out it gives them that moment in the sun. Kinda like those people who love going on Doctor Phil….
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July 28, 2011 at 11:56 am
No, they find us because they are hurting and desperate for help but you guys tell them that their is no such thing as what they are going thorough (PAS) and then disrespect them by saying things like they just want their moment in the sun kinda like those people going on Dr.Phil. Or it is insinuated that the reason they are hurting is because they were already mentally ill. No, the reason they are hurting is because they realize that they took their baby’s life and that has to hurt like hell. Their pain shouldn’t be minimized or criticized. They need help and they are crying out for it.
It amazes me how you guys are all about the woman. Hail to the woman! That is until she changes her mind and needs help. Is she no longer worthy of help because she is hurting? Or is she just mentally ill in need of attention (sort of like us pro-lifers)?
If you are for women then you have to be for them no matter their choice, no matter their PAS pain and no matter if they become pro-life. It’s not fair to only be pro-choice woman for those who don’t regret their abortions.. That is hypocritical.
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July 28, 2011 at 2:18 pm
Who is this woman, DeAnna?
She doesn’t know anything about the topic of abortion or birth control . . .
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July 28, 2011 at 5:01 pm
Gersha, Deanna is operating at the fourth level of cognition (cf Mary Belenky et al., “Women’s Ways of Knowing.” Occasionally she slips back to the third level and rants, but she at least tries to approach the issue procedurally, gathering materials, citing sources, marshalling information she has been told is factual.
The two problems she faces are 1) She needs to believe the information she presents is accurate, and 2) Due to the needs of the so-called “pro-life” movement, it isn’t.
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July 28, 2011 at 9:53 pm
“the fourth level of cognition” — geeze, Chuck, how did you fall for this crap. You’re a smart guy, but somewhere someone entrapped you. Belenky! Try Migorskey.
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July 29, 2011 at 7:47 am
The 4th level, the 2nd level, the 12th level. Sounds like something from a space station on a sci-fi movie. Did you stay in their laboratory long when they beamed you up for your visit? I mean seriously, it does not take levels of cognition to understand that killing a baby is wrong. Ask any three year old. They will tell you what your ‘education” (or the space men) has talked you out of knowing.
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July 29, 2011 at 8:21 am
Love it! I prompt and deanna delivers,
And LDM, begin here. It’s not too long, even for you. Peruse it. Keep an open mind and you’ll begin to realize what good writing is like.
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July 26, 2011 at 1:20 pm
Different people, different opinions… Some might regret, some might even say that was the best decision they ever had…
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July 29, 2011 at 3:30 pm
Exactly Sonia!!! There are women that think their abortion is the “best decision” they ever made!!…There are also “some women” that may regret their decision……But it is always a personal decision…NOT one that a bunch of people… that don’t know you… should get involved in…making you feel that you made a “BAD” decision!!
In the 20+ yrs I was the Director of a clinic there were only 2-3 people that stand out in my mind as having what I would call PAS and 2 of them had gone to a PCC to talk with someone..and left feeling much worse abt themselves…then came to talk with me and I helped them work through some issues and I have to say I know when they finally stopped coming to see me they had worked through their issues and were moving on with their lives.
Most of the time the issue is much bigger than the “abortion”…there are many things going on in her life!! She needs to be “lifted up..” NOT told that she is a “bad person”..that made a “bad decision”…by a bunch of NOT so “do gooders”!!!
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July 26, 2011 at 1:54 pm
“But, make no mistake about it. Behind all the nice talk and the offers of assistance, the bottom line is that these women who now regret their abortions thought they were doing the right thing at the time.”
Not necessarily. Studies show that most women who have abortions are coerced in some way into the decision.
VM Rue et. al. “Induced abortions and traumatic stress: A preliminary comparison of American and Russian women,” Medical Science Monitor 10(10):SR5-16 (2004).
64% of American women felt pressured by others
> More than half felt rushed or uncertain, yet 67% received no counseling
> 79% were not told about available alternatives
> 84% said they were not fully informed
> 65% suffer symptoms of trauma
> Coercion can escalate to violence, putting women & children at risk
> Coerced abortion is an internationally recognized human rights abuse
IL Horton and D Cheng, “Enchanced Surveillance for Pregnancy-Associated Mortality — Maryland, 1993-1998,” Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) 285(11):1455-1459 (2001); see also J. McFarlane et. al., “Abuse During Pregnancy and Femicide: Urgent Implications for Women’s Health,” Obstetrics & Gynecology 100:27-36 (2002).
unfpa.org/swp/1997/box15.htm
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July 26, 2011 at 3:16 pm
I always have to chuckle when you cite “objective” sources, Deanna. Vincert Rue, who basically did that study, is a well know pro-life advocate. And in that study he refers to, among others, the Eliot Institute, which is also pro-life.
On the other hand, in 2008, a team at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore reviewed 21 studies involving more than 150,000 women, and determined: “The best quality studies indicate no significant differences in long-term mental health between women in the United States who choose to terminate a pregnancy and those who do not.”[24][25]
Dr. Robert Blum, the senior author on the study, stated: “The best research does not support the existence of a ‘post-abortion syndrome’ similar to post-traumatic stress disorder.” The researchers further reported that “… studies with the most flawed methodology consistently found negative mental health consequences of abortion,”
finally, remember that in Russia there is practically no counseling…
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July 26, 2011 at 3:21 pm
I don’t know about Rue being pro-life. Where did you get the info he was pro-life? What about these? They are not prolife.
IL Horton and D Cheng, “Enchanced Surveillance for Pregnancy-Associated Mortality — Maryland, 1993-1998,” Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) 285(11):1455-1459 (2001); see also J. McFarlane et. al., “Abuse During Pregnancy and Femicide: Urgent Implications for Women’s Health,” Obstetrics & Gynecology 100:27-36 (2002)
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July 26, 2011 at 4:27 pm
Prolifers:
David C. Reardon, Jesse R. Cougle, Vincent M. Rue, Martha W. Shuping, Priscilla K. Coleman, Philip G. Ney
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July 26, 2011 at 4:58 pm
Herein lies the problem. They are assumed to be pro-life simply because their studies disagree with pro-choice studies. Not necessarily the truth. I am sure some of them are die hard pro-lifers but not necessarily all.
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July 26, 2011 at 4:33 pm
At one of the California universities, a large nationwide study is underway to learn what happens to women who are unable to get a wanted abortion. The study interviews women turned away (because they are too late or because clinic cannot manage their care) as well as women who received an abortion) from over 20 clinics across the country. The principal investigator of the study recently shared some of the preliminary results. She has found that on nearly every indicator of mental health, physical health and economic wellbeing that women who were denied an abortion are worse off than women who received the procedures. For example, six months after having been provided or denied an abortion, 17% of women who were turned away experience a major depression compared to 10% of women who received the procedure.
The preliminary finding from this study has the potential to challenge the notion that “abortion hurts women.”
http://www.ansirh.org/research/turnaway.php
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July 29, 2011 at 1:49 pm
Kate, that is NOT a non-biased study. It is from one of the most liberal colleges in the most liberal state by a reproductive health think tank group. Nope! Not buying it!
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July 28, 2011 at 2:20 pm
This DeAnna is embarrassing, she knows nothing about what she talks about.
I am embarrassed for her.
She makes Pro Lifers appear like lunatics.
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July 28, 2011 at 5:05 pm
Well, she is passionate and articulate about it. I think her behavior shows how compelled they are to promote their image as “rescuers” and heroes, even in the face of a huge body of evidence that shows otherwise. They are so focused on abortion that it precludes their ability to care for real human life. Google “aborticentrism” and meet “pro-life syndrome.”
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July 29, 2011 at 7:52 am
Have you ever walked down a street and had a chihuahua run out at you yapping and threatening to bite your ankles but you knew he was simply all bark and no bite? That’s what all of these yappers remind me of when they stroll by to tell me how stupid I am and then disappear from any true conversation. They have nothing relevant to say so they just bark and run back in the house.
Note to the chihuahua’s: Hang around a while and have some real input rather than continual yapping and someone may take you seriously. Just saying.
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July 30, 2011 at 12:05 am
for someone who says that they don’t take these people seriously,you sure have been pissing and moaning a lot about them.
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July 29, 2011 at 1:51 pm
If I don’t know what I am talking about then prove it! Provide non-biased documentation to prove me wrong and lets talk about it. Unless of course you just strolled by to insult me with absolutely no foundation or knowledge of the subject whatsoever.
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July 26, 2011 at 4:08 pm
Deanna, you haven’t responded yet to my posting of stories and studies from the other thread, personal approaches to add body to your statistical data. What’s up with it?
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July 26, 2011 at 4:23 pm
Don’t fall for this, d! Keep talking to Pat. Chuckles is quicksand.
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July 26, 2011 at 4:56 pm
Sorry, I have been away. I took my imaginary minority kids and my imaginary dog to the imaginary beach to wash the “whittie” off me. You should have seen me “parading” them around the beach. I was quiet the sight. I will get to it.
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July 26, 2011 at 6:32 pm
“Whittie”? I hope you wanted it washed off. It sounds like something I would slug someone for trying to put it on me….
Thanks for keeping the information in mind, and may the kids keep your juices flowing.
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July 26, 2011 at 6:41 pm
“Whittie” is an inside joke that Kate and Rogelio will understand.
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July 30, 2011 at 12:07 am
i hadn’t even posted in this entry and you saw fit to bring me up?
jajajajajajaja
deanna, i simply don’t believe you about those children.
why make such a big deal over it?
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July 28, 2011 at 2:21 pm
Thank you aborticentrism, you are one of the few commentators that makes any sense.
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July 28, 2011 at 5:06 pm
Rare praise, indeed, Shiela. Thank you!
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July 28, 2011 at 9:48 pm
make
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July 26, 2011 at 7:42 pm
Passive agressive much?
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July 26, 2011 at 8:54 pm
sometimes
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July 27, 2011 at 3:32 am
Kate, don’t push that syntax, maybe once every two years.
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July 28, 2011 at 2:24 pm
Kate is so smart compared to you pro life maniacs.
I do not know why she even bothers engaging you in dialogue.
I have been reading these threads.
You nutty pro lifers want to get rid of birth control!
You will just create more late term abortions.
You are certifiably insane!
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July 28, 2011 at 9:47 pm
“I do not know why she even bothers engaging you in dialogue.” Yeah, me neither, Han. She has her own blog where she talks to herself. She used to talk to us. Then she stopped. But why in the world would she come over here to start up again?
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July 27, 2011 at 6:32 am
Imagine a rumpled old white man, unkempt and inarticulate, lurking around the entrance to an abortion clinic telling a male companion of color about Martin Luther King, about MLK’s family and about having a dream. I’ve witnessed one such whitey do just that and I’ve witnessed men of color call him a racist, which he is by all standards of decency. It’s a label whitey deserves because he fails
to recognize the implications of his unacknowledged white privilege
to comprehend how utterly ignorant he is with regard to African American history, especially MLK’s many-storied legacy
to distinguish how his chant of “I have a dream” sounds hollow and cheaply opportunistic when he addresses men of color
On a larger scale, whiteys like Frank Pavone pull the same stunts, as shown in GritTV. In the misappropriation of the civil rights movement, Pavone and his appointed minions, including latte Alveda King, spent millions of dollars trashing the King’s family’s honor and demeaning the integrity of black women.
Sound familiar?
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July 27, 2011 at 9:21 am
Yes, you said the same thing in March, and in October, and in August, and in . . .
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July 28, 2011 at 2:26 pm
Who is this Dunkle, this very weird person that appears to think it is OK to murder an innocent person?
And who is DeAnna, a person that seems to support this wild notion, not admonishing Dunkle?
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July 28, 2011 at 9:15 pm
Dunkle is an upstanding individual, though a little old , perhaps. And deanna is someone who proves, again and again, that you, Hanson, and all the other killers’ helpers, are really stupid.
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July 29, 2011 at 8:30 am
Apparently my perceived job on here is to tell you John that you are a bad boy. I wonder if this will work?
John you are a bad boy. Go sit in time out for 15 minutes or you will be grounde
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July 29, 2011 at 9:59 am
Hope that shuts ’em up.
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July 29, 2011 at 3:05 pm
This is what Martin Luther King said about abortion. If that rumpled old white man quoted him he would be right on the mark.
“The Negro cannot win as long as he is willing to sacrifice the lives of his children for comfort and safety.” How can the “Dream” survive if we murder the children? Every aborted baby is like a slave in the womb of his or her mother. The mother decides his or her fate.
These I added just for fun:
“Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.”
— Martin Luther King Jr.
“He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it.”
— Martin Luther King Jr.
“Morality cannot be legislated, but behavior can be regulated. Judicial decrees may not change the heart, but they can restrain the heartless.”
— Martin Luther King Jr.
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July 29, 2011 at 3:51 pm
Oh, d, how I wish our enemies could read.
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July 27, 2011 at 9:10 am
My dear Deanna,
I often tell you that you are the only pro-life i do respect the opinion for whatever reason and different than everybody in here i think that you are doing a pretty good job BUT… that women fell pressured by others i can’t agree with you on that… That is the same thing that an alcoholic or a drug user say when he drink or drug himself… that his friends pressured him, or that he drink because he is under a lot of pressure and etc… NOBODY does anything under pressure. Not now in days… maybe in 1960’s but today, sorry can’t see that happening. Women now in days have the freedom to choose what they want and when they want and how they want, woman if pregnant, can decide to keep the bastard who is by her side asking her to abort their child or to leave him and keep the child… WE WOMEN DO NOT NEED A MAN TO SURVIVE… actually is the other way around MEN (most of the times) is off of a relationship and right after into another one… so the pressure thing i am not buying it….
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July 27, 2011 at 10:05 am
You’ve got a good point, Sonia: Back in the days of heavy-duty Civil Defense preparations, researchers found out that in a disaster women looked for their children, children looked for their mothers and men looked for their wives. Why did the men not look for their children? Because they were looking for the same person their children were looking for– the one who took care of them.
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July 29, 2011 at 8:19 am
It is true Sonia. You would think that in our modern society that it never happens but a lot of women a pressured to abort, some even with violence and threats.
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July 29, 2011 at 2:38 pm
Roughly 1.5 million have an abortion every year.
Where are the statistics about the number that are coerced?
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July 29, 2011 at 4:29 pm
VM Rue et. al. “Induced abortions and traumatic stress: A preliminary comparison of American and Russian women,” Medical Science Monitor 10(10):SR5-16 (2004).
Most abortions are coerced according to this study.
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July 26, 2011 at 4:32 pm
You know I love all your posts, Pat, but get rid of this: “They were both good Catholics so they used the rhythm method for birth control.”
Good Catholics do not engage in the marriage act outside of marriage. Here’s what happened. “He” found contraceptives repugnant (most of us guys do) and persuaded “her” to do the “Catholic” thing. She was just clueless.
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July 26, 2011 at 5:16 pm
I’m confused, John. Aren’t Catholics supposed to use that method if they dont want to conceive? Or are you saying that when they have sex, it is for the sole purpose of conceiving?
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July 27, 2011 at 3:34 am
Married Catholics are. I’m assuming “he” and “she” are not married.
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July 26, 2011 at 4:41 pm
The research from credible sources shows that there is no correlation between abortion and mental health sequelae. However, there is something interestingly sobering to note about some who really regret their abortion. First, let’s look at a few articles then ponder the potential meanings.
In an article on anxiety and abortion, drawn from data from the United States National Survey of Family Growth (NSFG) and the National Comorbidity Survey (NCS), the authors found that with multiple abortions there were higher rates of PTSD and social anxiety that co-existed with pre-pregnancy mental health disorders and their association with higher rates of violence.
In a longitudinal study, reported by the British Medical Journal (2005) on depression and abortion in the U.S., their findings that choosing to terminate rather than deliver an unwanted first pregnancy puts women at higher risk of depression were inconclusive. They also noted that of the women who had an abortion without mental health sequelae were of a significantly higher mean education and income and lower family size, all of which are associated with a lower risk of depression.
A Harvard Psychiatry journal article states that “The most consistent predictor of mental disorders after abortion remains preexisting disorders (such as psychiatric disorders), which, in turn, are strongly associated with exposure to sexual abuse and intimate violence.”
Another BMJ article (2008) reports that researchers at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health have found that women who have elective legal abortion do not experience depression or long term psychological distress.
Taken together, these reports point to the need to move these findings into a more public forum, as in to the offices of legislators and policy makers. Legislators and policy makers make decisions about women’s health care based on false information when, in fact, there’s better, more accurate information.
But on another note, what about the minority of women who really, truly regret their abortion? Based on the above research findings, some of the women who regret their abortion may have psychiatric disorders or may have been exposed to sexual abuse and/or intimate violence. That’s a sobering thought especially when you consider the women (and a few men) who stand outside abortion clinics with their signs that proclaim regret. As with clinics nationwide, there are anti choicers who hold their signs that read “Women Regret Abortion”. So, rather than scoff at their signs, show them compassion like you would for someone with a mental disorder or someone who is a survivor of an abusive relationship. As one NY-based counselor and colleague said of the anti-choicers, many of them are hurting, have been damaged. So we need to show them a bit more care, tread more carefully. Any sudden moves or untoward comments might set them off into a mental rage, a volley of spiteful jabberwocky or another frivolous lawsuit for imagined harm and suffering.
Sources:
Harvard Review of Psychiatry; Jul/Aug2009, Vol. 17 Issue 4
BMJ: British Medical Journal; 12/3/2005, Vol. 331 Issue 7528, p1303-1306
Social Science & Medicine; Jul2008, Vol. 67 Issue 2, p238-252
BMJ: British Medical Journal; 12/13/2008, Vol. 337 Issue 7683, p1374-1375
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July 26, 2011 at 6:30 pm
Yay, Kate! Well done, indeed.
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July 26, 2011 at 7:29 pm
The following studies show that there are negative mental health consequences to abortion. Some are on Kate’s list of so-called pro-life sources. Others are not.
I don’t think that it takes scientific studies to show what common sense tells us anyway. Pat says, and I believe it is mostly true, that women know what they are doing.
” Well, earth to the pro-life movement: women know the truth. They know they have a living organism in their body and they have made the extremely difficult decision to “kill” it, to abort it, or even, yes, “murder” it. How she defines that act is her decision.”
So, logically if she knows she is killing something,”murdering” it even, then it makes sense that it would weigh on her conscience. Some more than others depending upon their level of sensitivity (not mental disorders). I think the opposite is most likely the case. Those who do not feel anything are the ones with the disorder because it is not normal for a woman to kill and not feel any remorse for the act. In a normal woman her natural emotions from being human pre-condition her to care that she killed her offspring.
• Bradshaw, Z., & Slade, P. (2005). The relationship between induced abortion, attitudes toward sexuality, and sexual problems. Sexual and Relationship Therapy, 20, 390-406.
• Brockington, I.F. (2005). Post-abortion psychosis, Archives of Women’s Mental Health 8: 53–54.
• Broen, A. N., Moum, T., Bodtker, A. S., & Ekeberg, O. (2006). Predictors of anxiety and depression following pregnancy termination: A longitudinal five-year follow-up study. Acta Obstetricia et Gynecologica Scandinavica 85: 317-23.
• Broen, A. N., Moum, T., Bodtker, A. S., & Ekeberg, O. (2005). Reasons for induced abortion and their relation to women’s emotional distress: A prospective, two-year follow-up study. General Hospital Psychiatry 27: 36-43.
• Broen, A. N., Moum, T., Bodtker, A. S., & Ekeberg, O. (2005). The course of mental health after miscarriage and induced abortion: a longitudinal, five-year follow-up study. BMC Medicine 3(18).
• Coleman, P. K. (2005). Induced Abortion and increased risk of substance use: A review of the evidence. Current Women’s Health Reviews 1, 21-34.
• Coleman, P. K. (2006). Resolution of unwanted pregnancy during adolescence through abortion versus childbirth: Individual and family predictors and psychological consequences. Journal of Youth and Adolescence, 35, 903-911.
• Coleman, P. K. (2009). The Psychological Pain of Perinatal Loss and Subsequent Parenting Risks: Could Induced Abortion be more Problematic than Other Forms of Loss? Current Women’s Health Reviews, 5, 88-99.
• Coleman, P. K., Coyle, C. T., & Rue, V.M. (2010). Late-Term Elective Abortion and Susceptibility to Posttraumatic Stress Symptoms, Journal of Pregnancy, vol. 2010, Article ID 130519.
• Coleman, P. K., Coyle, C.T., Shuping, M., & Rue, V. (2009), Induced Abortion and Anxiety, Mood, and Substance Abuse Disorders: Isolating the Effects of Abortion in the National Comorbidity Survey. Journal of Psychiatric Research, 43, 770– 776.
• Coleman, P. K., Maxey, C. D., Rue, V. M., & Coyle, C. T. (2005). Associations between voluntary and involuntary forms of perinatal loss and child maltreatment among low-income mothers. Acta Paediatrica, 94(10), 1476-1483.
• Coleman, P. K., & Maxey, D. C., Spence, M. Nixon, C. (2009). The choice to abort among mothers living under ecologically deprived conditions: Predictors and consequences. International Journal of Mental Health and Addiction 7, 405-422.
• Coleman, P. K., Reardon, D. C., & Cougle, J. R. (2005). Substance use among pregnant women in the context of previous reproductive loss and desire for current pregnancy. British Journal of Health Psychology, 10 (2), 255-268.
• Coleman, P. K., Reardon, D. C., Strahan, T., & Cougle, J. R. (2005). The psychology of abortion: A review and suggestions for future research. Psychology and Health, 20, 237-271.
• Coleman, P.K., Rue, V.M. & Coyle, C.T. (2009). Induced abortion and intimate relationship quality in the Chicago Health and Social Life Survey. Public Health, 123, 331-338.DOI: 10.1016/j.puhe.2009.01.005.
• Coleman, P.K., Rue, V.M., Coyle, C.T. & Maxey, C.D. (2007). Induced abortion and child-directed aggression among mothers of maltreated children. Internet Journal of Pediatrics and Neonatology, 6 (2), ISSN: 1528-8374.
• Coleman, P. K., Rue, V., & Spence, M. (2007). Intrapersonal processes and post-abortion relationship difficulties: A review and consolidation of relevant literature. Internet Journal of Mental Health, 4 (2).
• Coleman, P.K., Rue, V.M., Spence, M. & Coyle, C.T. (2008). Abortion and the sexual lives of men and women: Is casual sexual behavior more appealing and more common after abortion? International Journal of Health and Clinical Psychology, 8 (1), 77-91.
• Cougle, J. R., Reardon, D. C., & Coleman, P. K. (2005). Generalized anxiety following unintended pregnancies resolved through childbirth and abortion: A cohort study of the 1995 National Survey of Family Growth. Journal of Anxiety Disorders, 19, 137-142.
• Coyle, C.T., Coleman, P.K. & Rue, V.M. (2010). Inadequate preabortion counseling and decision conflict as predictors of subsequent relationship difficulties and psychological stress in men and women. Traumatology, 16 (1), 16-30. DOI:10.1177/1534765609347550.
• Dingle, K., et al. (2008). Pregnancy loss and psychiatric disorders in young women: An Australian birth cohort study. The British Journal of Psychiatry, 193, 455-460.
• Fergusson, D. M., Horwood, L. J., & Boden, J.M. (2009). Reactions to abortion and subsequent mental health. The British Journal of Psychiatry, 195, 420-426.
• Fergusson, D. M., Horwood, L. J., & Ridder, E. M. (2006). Abortion in young women and subsequent mental health. Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry, 47, 16-24.
• Gissler, M., et al. (2005). Injury deaths, suicides and homicides associated with pregnancy, Finland 1987-2000. European Journal of Public Health, 15, 459-463.
• Hemmerling, F., Siedentoff, F., & Kentenich, H. (2005). Emotional impact and acceptability of medical abortion with mifepristone: A German experience. Journal of Psychosomatic Obstetrics & Gynecology, 26, 23-31.
• Mota, N.P. et al (2010). Associations between abortion, mental disorders, and suicidal behaviors in a nationally representative sample. The Canadian Journal of Psychiatry, 55(4), 239-246.
• Pedersen, W. (2008). Abortion and depression: A population-based longitudinal study of young women. Scandinavian Journal of Public Health, 36, No. 4, 424-428.
• Pedersen, W. (2007). Childbirth, abortion and subsequent substance use in young women: a population-based longitudinal study. Addiction, 102 (12), 1971-78.
• Reardon, D. C., & Coleman, P. K. (2006). Relative treatment for sleep disorders following abortion and child delivery: A prospective record-based study. Sleep, 29 (1), 105-106.
• Rees, D. I. & Sabia, J. J. (2007). The Relationship between Abortion and Depression: New Evidence from the Fragile Families and Child Wellbeing Study. Medical Science Monitor. 13(10): 430-436.
• Suliman et al. (2007) Comparison of pain, cortisol levels, and psychological distress in women undergoing surgical termination of pregnancy under local anaesthesia versus intravenous sedation. BMC Psychiatry, 7 (24), p.1-9.
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July 27, 2011 at 10:43 am
Yikes, are you going for your doctorate in Abortion Studies? Got enough citations?
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July 27, 2011 at 10:46 am
Also, I cannot believe that there are women out there who get an abortion and feel absolutely nothing. I mean, c’mon, they are in a spot they do not want to be in (pregnant), they get an abortion (knowing that will stop the pregnancy). They won’t feel anything? Maybe Kate can chime in on this one…
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July 27, 2011 at 1:10 pm
The relationship of abortion to women’s well-being in the context of childbearing experiences and coping resources is examined over a span of 8 yrs using a national sample of 5,295 US women. No evidence of widespread post-abortion trauma was found. Having 1 abortion was positively associated with higher global self-esteem, particularly feelings of self-worth, capableness, and not feeling one is a failure. When childbearing and resource variables were controlled, neither having 1 abortion nor having repeat abortions had an independent relationship to well-being, suggesting that the relationship of abortion to well-being reflects abortion’s role in controlling fertility and its relationship to coping resources. When childbearing and abortion variables were controlled, women’s well-being was separately and positively related to employment, income, and education, but negatively related to total number of children.
From Russo, Nancy F., Arizona State U, Tempe, US, Zierk, Kristin L. Professional Psychology: Research and Practice, Vol 23(4), Aug, 1992. pp. 269-280.
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July 27, 2011 at 6:11 pm
That negative relationship between self-worth and number of children probably has a bearing on the subject’s attitude toward abortion. Kate, do you know of any studies bearing on that relationship?
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July 29, 2011 at 4:08 pm
“The relationship of abortion to women’s well-being in the context of childbearing experiences and coping resources is examined over a span of 8 yrs using a national sample of 5,295 US women. Evidence of widespread post-abortion trauma was found. Having 1 abortion was positively associated with lower global self-esteem, particularly feelings of self-worth, capableness, and feeling one is a failure. When childbearing and resource variables were controlled, having 1 abortion or having repeat abortions had an independent relationship to well-being, suggesting that the relationship of abortion to well-being reflects abortion’s role in controlling fertility and its relationship to coping resources. When childbearing and abortion variables were controlled, women’s well-being was separately and negatively related to employment, income, and education, and negatively related to total number of children.”
Kate, the original was so badly written that I had a hard time making fun of
it. I’ve known for a long time that “psychology” was phony, just a way for crooks to steal from the unwary. But after trying to read you and Chuckles for several years, I think now that’s it more responsible than any other factor for the wholesale dismemberment of the young.
“coping resources”! “global self-esteem”! “capableness”!
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July 28, 2011 at 2:30 pm
This Kate makes you Pro Lifers sound like retards!
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July 28, 2011 at 9:11 pm
You don’t need anybody else, Emily.
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July 30, 2011 at 7:24 am
Kate,
I must thank you for your tireless effort to be a source of clarity in the fog of Pro Life Propaganda.
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July 26, 2011 at 5:18 pm
Your study says this, my study says that. Most of the time, the truth is somewhere in the middle unless, of course, if the study was done by Derek Jeter who, clearly, is God…
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July 26, 2011 at 7:40 pm
Deanna, without any acknowledged pedigrees, wrote: ” Those who do not feel anything are the ones with the disorder because it is not normal for a woman to kill and not feel any remorse for the act. In a normal woman her natural emotions from being human pre-condition her to care that she killed her offspring.”
Damnation—what can one say after this?
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July 26, 2011 at 8:56 pm
I said , “I THINK”.
My opinion! I don’t have to have a pedigree to have one.
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July 27, 2011 at 3:42 am
Yeah, Kate do love her pedigrees and her credible sources, don’t she: “The research from credible sources shows that there is no correlation between abortion and mental health sequelae.”
But “sequelae”! What the hell is “sequelae”?
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July 27, 2011 at 5:25 am
You’re correct that you said I think and then went on to make absolutes about your thinking. I’m simply supplying resources that could help you think or could challenge your opinion.
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July 27, 2011 at 5:23 am
For those who want to watch a video about advertising the rape/innocent child story, go to
http://leiapeison.blogspot.com/2011/07/this-had-to-be-done.html
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July 27, 2011 at 12:57 pm
As with other so-called “pro-lifers” the woman is actually saying, “It’s all about me, me, me.”
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July 27, 2011 at 2:01 pm
In a report* drawn from qualitative and quantitative research, the authors cite statistics that dispute some of the advertising that suggests women choose abortion because they are forced or because of economics. The results are as follows:
The reasons most frequently cited were that having a child would interfere with a woman’s education, work or ability to care for dependents (74%); that she could not afford a baby now (73%); and that she did not want to be a single mother or was having relationship problems (48%). Nearly four in 10 women said they had completed their childbearing, and almost one-third were not ready to have a child. Fewer than 1% said their parents’ or partners’ desire for them to have an abortion was the most important reason. Younger women often reported that they were unprepared for the transition to motherhood, while older women regularly cited their responsibility to dependents.
* Perspectives on Sexual and Reproductive Health, 2005, 37(3):110–118
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July 27, 2011 at 3:10 pm
“qualitative and quantitative research” Wow! Where can I get hold of some of that stuff!.
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July 27, 2011 at 5:55 am
A woman in defense of her children is very likely willing to kill. I was once cowed by a woman who raged at me, “WHERE’S THE KNIFE?” I was sure that if I’d had it, she would have stabbed me with it. Her four-year-old had come in with a bad gash across the back of his hand (surgery was required), and she was getting to the bottom of the affair.
I think any woman who finds her pregnancy is a threat to her children’s well-being is likely to kill.
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July 27, 2011 at 6:30 am
As an antidote to lies in advertising, I highly recommend reading Kumar, A., Hessini, L., & Mitchell, E. M. (2009). Conceptualising abortion stigma. Cult Health Sex, 1. The article helps us understand how concepts are often socially constructed, not necessarily natural. For example, maternal instinct is at best a misnomer because females are socialized to believe they want and care for children. It’s a powerful socialization process that pits women who want children against women who do not want children. Neither group of women is right or wrong, moral or immoral. They simply have different frames of reference. But society has a way of framing motherhood as desirable and of framing women who refuse to have children as suspect. So when a woman decides that an abortion is her best choice for an unplanned or unwanted pregnancy, the groundwork for shaming her is already in place.
But let me return to the article. The authors’ hypothesis about abortion as a transgression against three cherished feminine ideals (perpetual fecundity, the inevitability of motherhood, and instinctive nurturing) is especially enlightening because these ideals are socially constructed from popular and medical discourses, government and political structures, communities and personal interactions. They provide examples of how abortion is not stigmatized in other countries, thus demonstrating the unnatural, social constructedness of the aforementioned feminine ideals. They also point out how deeply threatening a woman’s ability to make life and death decisions is to a moral order. “The fact that so many women do have abortions, despite powerful barriers, indicates that this contested space where agency and resistance are dynamic.”
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July 27, 2011 at 1:39 pm
Whose Version to Believe: Truth & Morality at CPCs or Abortion Clinics?
One doesn’t get to stand on the grounds of moral superiority/correctness if one has to lie about it–CPC or Not.
It’s the perfect question to pose to “Christian” help centers known as CPCs. Lying about abortion, about the gestational age of a pregnancy, about the dangers of abortion v the dangers of childbirth, and about the fictional post abortion stress disorder are all hallmarks of pro-lifers and their friendly, pregnancy-focused centers staffed with non-medical volunteers at local Crisis Pregnancy Centers. There’s an interesting story** by Cienna Madrid about women who posed as potentially pregnant women at CPCs and learned Christians’ versions of morality and truth.
So the question is who to believe: who holds the truth and who upholds moral values? The person who lies about scientific and medical facts with the sole aim to shame or coerce you into keeping your pregnancy or the professionally qualified counselors/nurses/physicians who provide accurate scientific and medical facts so that you can make the best decision for your own life?
** Google the terms: thestranger & seattle & six pregnancy tests
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July 27, 2011 at 3:18 pm
“coerce you into keeping your pregnancy” — pregnancies don’t cause babies, babies cause pregnancies! I’ve always had the feeling about you, Kate, that once you learned to talk straight, you’d start thinking straight. (If the word “babies” bothers you, substitute “young people.”)
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July 28, 2011 at 2:32 pm
Why does Dunkle always have something stupid to say? Who is this Avatar?
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July 28, 2011 at 9:05 pm
Avatar! Hey, I’m not God! OK, so he does speak through me, but I’m not him!
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July 27, 2011 at 1:59 pm
In an Australian journal, Arch Womens Mental Health, authors Kirkman, Rowe, Hardiman, Mallet and Rosenthal (2009) asked “Why do women have abortions?” In a review of 19 papers from 8 reporting countries, they identified three main categories of reasons—woman-focused, other-focused and material. The categories might overlap, depending on the respondents’s answers. For example, a woman may have ended a relationship with the genetic father who was irresponsible (other-focused) and doesn’t want to raise a child alone (woman-focused). In other words, reasons are often complex.
Woman focused
Wrong time (most common reason)
Does not want disabled child
Does not want children
Too young to mother
Physical or mental health
Family complete. No more children
Other focused
Intimate partner (helped with abortion decision or the relationship troubled, unstable or too new)
Potential child
Influence of others
Violence, sexual assault
Material reasons
Fetal abnormality
Financial limitations
Housing limitations
In their conclusion, the authors found that the decisions to terminate a pregnancy were often influenced by the desire to be a good parent, that women take parenting seriously, and that women know when they are ready and able to parent.
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July 27, 2011 at 2:21 pm
One of the little-known reasons for the success stories of so-called “pro-life rescues” is that it was found out that women who will consider abortion are better parents than those who don’t– indicating that they consider all the factors mentioned in that study, Kate.
So, the so-called “pro-lifers” don’t have too worry that much about “rescuing” the next Ted Bundy. But I wasn’t going to mention that to Deanna. . . . !
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July 27, 2011 at 6:14 pm
Also, great material, Kate. An excellent, factual, provable (in the sense of testing for validity) study, free of the need to rely on myths and superstitions.
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July 27, 2011 at 6:32 pm
Hey, I sense a relationship growing here between “my sex partners” and Kate. Watch out, Kate.
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July 27, 2011 at 1:59 pm
Although much research has examined the relationship between religion and abortion attitudes, few studies have examined whether religion influences abortion behavior. This study looks at whether individual and school religiosity influence reported abortion behavior among women who become pregnant while unmarried. Hierarchical Logistic Models are implemented to analyze two waves of data from the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health. Findings show that personal religiosity is unrelated to reported abortion behavior. However, conservative Protestants appear less likely to obtain abortions than mainline Protestants, Catholics, and women of non-Christian faiths. Regardless of personal religious affiliation, having attended a school with a high proportion of conservative Protestants appears to discourage abortion as women enter their twenties. Conversely, women from private religious high schools appear more likely to report obtaining an abortion than women from public schools.
From Adamczyk, Amy in Journal of Health and Social Behavior, Vol 50(2), Jun, 2009. pp. 180-195
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July 27, 2011 at 3:22 pm
If there’s one thing worse than saying stupid stuff yourself, it’s quoting with approval others who say it. (And please use quotation marks.)
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July 28, 2011 at 11:47 am
Summer of Choice in Maryland will be a testament to the truth of women’s lives starting Sunday
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July 28, 2011 at 7:49 pm
Operation Rescue will be gathering their prolife industry minions in an attempt to shut down Dr. Leroy Carhart’s Maryland clinic. OR tried in vain to do the same in Florida.
Let’s watch watch happens in MD beginning Sunday, July 31. We’ll see truth in advertising:the competition of the truth via prochoice advocates from across the nation vs. prolife advocates from Operation Rescue.
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July 28, 2011 at 9:08 pm
Oh shoot. I have to baby sit.
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