Like most Americans (the sane ones, at least), I watched in horror as our elected officials almost brought our country to the economic brink a few weeks ago with their outright silliness over legislation to raise the debt ceiling. Despite the fact that every Congress has gone through this drill many times (including under Reagan and Bush), this time around the young Tea Partyers decided it was time to draw the line in the sand – the economy be damned.
They cried that they had been sent to the Congress to send the message that we needed to get control of the “reckless” spending that was running rampant in our federal agencies. So, screw your silly debt ceiling, they shouted! I don’t care, Mr. President, if you are cutting a few trillion dollars in spending. It’s not enough! And, while you’re at it, don’t even think about raising any taxes, even on the billionaires who could care less if they had another $1,000 or so taken out of their paycheck. There will be no compromise – and let the chips fall where they may!
What a friggin mess. It was a game of machismo and Obama, because he actually believes in governing this country, had to blink.
And so it is with the debate over abortion. As followers of this award-winning blog have seen in the past, the “debate,” and I use that term loosely, generally boils down to a cyberspace shouting match where no one gives any ground, where no one dares say “hey, you got a point there,” lest they be accused of treason. Yes, there are some who have a bottom line but at times do show that they are at least hearing the other side. But, for the most part, it is dueling academic reports and quotations.
So, for example, a pro-lifer will make their argument invoking Genesis (“and Adam begat Cain who then begat Tommy after he smote his bro Abel all the while declaring that there shall be no abortion”) or St. Luke the Meek (“ye shall never abort a possible Savior”). They will spend hours insisting that their book is the only one worth shit, that it is the all knowing edition that lays out everything that must be obeyed – even if you wear a turban. It is the WORD of the munificent and compassionate God, pure and simple and, if you stray from his oh-so-loving WORD, you will spend ETERNITY SURROUNDED BY FLAMES IN HELL. Sorry, but those are the rules.
Then there are the pro-choicers who quote their own Gods or, to be more exact, Goddesses. Steinem, Abzug, Friedan, Madonna. Theirs is the word, the woman’s body is sacrosanct, it’s our way or the highway. They believe that every anti-abortion person is a true nut ball or, worse, a terrorist. The crisis pregnancy centers are all run by freak-a-zoids who don’t give a crap about women and who, once they talk that woman into having the baby, will disappear forever. Adios, mama, you’re on your own! Meanwhile, the pro-choicers will insist that that damned thing floating around in there is a fetus. It ain’t a baby you idiot! It doesn’t matter that the mother calls it a baby when that eight week fetus is wanted. Nope, when we’re contemplating abortion, it’s a fetus, pure and simple.
The problem in this country is that we live in a bumper sticker world where no one dares to give ground any more. I am right and you are wrong. End of story. Indeed, when was the last time you ever heard anyone say “hey, you got a point there, I wanna think about that.” OMG! Hey, we got a wimp over here folks! A flip flopper! Off with her head!
So, much like we saw in Congress, the abortion debate has become one intractable mess.
Well, I’m sorry but no one has the monopoly on wisdom on this or any other issue. The truth is always somewhere in the middle. To be sure, I am totally pro-choice but, damn it, at 24 weeks it sure looks like a baby to me. And while I still support the right to abort it, it pains me to see it happen. On the other hand, to the pro-lifers out there, you are never gonna convince me that a 6 week fetus is a baby or a “person” as some of you would suggest. Get real.
I say we toss aside the bumper stickers for a bit.
Let’s start thinking and actually TALKING for a change.


August 8, 2011 at 1:58 pm
Funny how we wouldn’t be in this mess (with the debt) if we had a few more millions of people around paying taxes..oh wait…we killed them all in the name of choice! Great going ladies.
I don’t compromise for anything or anyone. I answer to one person only and that is my heavenly father. When I reach the gates of heaven, I am hoping and praying that he welcomes me with open arms BECAUSE I didn’t compromise and because I didn’t take the “middle road”.
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August 8, 2011 at 4:20 pm
Don’t be silly, those few millions that were “killed” wouldn’t be paying taxes but living on the taxes that we pay. Most of the people who have abortions have them because they cannot afford one more mouth to feed.
I hope your heavenly father comes to our rescue if he really exist. I hope he ends the suffering of the millions who got tho be born but are starving or being killed by causes that are probably linked to religion.
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August 8, 2011 at 5:07 pm
spoken like a true liberal.
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August 9, 2011 at 8:31 am
Thanks for chiming in, Anonymous. But, seriously, how to you know for a fact that all of those non-aborted people would wind up being taxpayers? Or were you just kidding? I mean, I know you’re against abortion, I get that. But is that a serious argument??
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August 10, 2011 at 9:35 am
Anonymous,
Can you answer Pat’s question please?
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August 9, 2011 at 7:06 am
Perhaps HE/SHE hopes you would take the “middle road” of understanding.. everyday people and their problems…because HE/SHE knows that NO one except HE/SHE is without sin….
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August 9, 2011 at 8:32 am
I’ve never sinned, Lorraine. So now there are two of us …
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August 9, 2011 at 10:01 am
Anonymous,
A bunch of people use that name.
Can you just pick a fake name so we know which of the Anonymous people are in the thread? You are making it very confusing.
Tx
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August 9, 2011 at 11:17 am
Anonymous, I suggest you check out the comparisons of the Abortion Store and the Baby Store at the aborticentrism website to get an idea of how many of those real children will not grow up to be taxpayers unless some so-called “pro-lifer” at the Abortion Store decides to care for the babies coming out of the Baby Store.
By the way, how many children have you adopted, and how many more adoptees do you have in the pipeline? Divide your family gross income by $3,800 and subtract two to find out how many you ought to be caring for, instead of just caring about fetuses.
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August 9, 2011 at 1:25 pm
Go get ’em, Charles!
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August 10, 2011 at 11:38 am
Aborticentrism, I have a question that has come to mind as I’ve been reading past articles and comments (which will take the rest of my life): Are pro choice folks exempt from taking care of any of those children, who had no choice that they were born into the situations they were, just because you didn’t agree with their births in the first place? How many have you adopted? And there is a woman on here who says she has adopted several, and then she was blasted for not adopting “enough”. Are pro lifers the only ones responsible for meeting the needs of already born children languishing in the system? You guys have used that argument (adoption) many times that I’ve seen here, and I always wonder why that seems to be a legitimate argument to you if you aren’t holding everyone on earth responsible, not just pro lifers? Shouldn’t we all be responsible in some for them, as well as the environment and spaying and neutering our pets, etc? We can argue their right to life all day long, but once they are born it’s a whole different ballgame. (And no, I haven’t adopted any)
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August 10, 2011 at 11:42 am
NunYa,
do you ever answer any questions?
I am pro choice and I have adopted four children.
I spend most my time volunteering helping children who are presently in need, who are sick and impoverished.
How many have you adopted NunYa?
How many children do you help?
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August 10, 2011 at 2:33 pm
Listen guys, I don’t live in front of this computer. I leave the site pulled up and sit down when I have a moment, so I have no idea which questions I’m supposed to be avoiding. I refresh, start at the top, and skim through them. I am down to this point. If there is a better way, let me know. But Tonya, I just reread my own comment above yours, so my question to you is, do you even read the comments? I answered your questions before you asked them.
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August 10, 2011 at 2:50 pm
So how many children do you help?
What do we do with frozen embryos?
Do you want to legislate away abortifacient birth control and the Morning After Pill from women?
Do you understand the concept of the opportunity costs of MacroEconomics, etc., etc., etc., . . .
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August 11, 2011 at 9:04 am
I agree that Deanna has done “her part” in adopting kids. But I know Charles thinks she should do more. I”m not sure how you quantify this. As for how many we pro-choicers have adopted, I certainly have not adopted any but I am wondering why should I if I am basically not forcing women to have that unwanted baby? Can you help me out, Nunya?
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August 11, 2011 at 9:35 pm
My point is that you guys speak as if all the unwanted children out there are the responsibility of only pro lifers, yet those children are not responsible for their births, and are incapable of taking care of themselves, just as a litter of puppies isn’t responsible for the irresponsibility of their owner not to have had the mother fixed. Are we responsible if they are born under our house and the mother leaves them. Do we just let them die because their owner caused the problem, and because we are all about spaying and neutering? Have any of you realized that abortion IS legal in this country, yet there are still unwanted children languishing in the system? How is it the responsibility of prolifers just because we “want” abortion to be illegal? Has the legalization of abortion stopped the problem?
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August 12, 2011 at 9:30 am
Oh vey,
she just doesn’t get it.
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August 10, 2011 at 9:56 am
Really flawed logic with the taxes. Sounds like the logic of the num nuts to lurk around clinics invading women’s privacy and foister all manner of lies on them.
As for the gates of heaven, I’d go back to the FB joke about God not seeing any religious in heaven because they’re so judgmental.
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August 8, 2011 at 4:23 pm
Around 1988 in Michigan, a law was passed denying state funding of abortion. Eighteen months later, the welfare rolls had increased horrendously. It was directly attributable to the reduction in abortions. How many pro-lifers out there want to see twice as many families forced onto welfare???
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August 8, 2011 at 9:51 pm
i have no problem paying more in taxes for that. that’s why i pay taxes to begin with, to help those who need help.
all lifers aren’t teabaggers, chuckles.
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August 9, 2011 at 8:34 am
That’s why I love Rogie! Willing to pay more taxes to be consistent in his beliefs. Good for you, Rogie. The only problem is I suspect most folks of a conservative stripe would not be willing to have their taxes increased….as we just saw on Capitol Hill…
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August 9, 2011 at 9:05 am
If having taxes increased truly helped the needy then I wouldn’t mind but it doesn’t. It goes to government waste and to Planned Parenthood. What I want to see happen is for all of the pork to stop, the waste to stop and the buying off people to stop. When all of this happens there will probably be more than enough to take care of all the needy. But unfortunately it will probably never happen because our gov officials want it all ways. They want to spend zillions of dollars to study the mating habits of turtles, build roads to nowhere, build museums, etc, police the world, pay for abortions for the world, and help the needy all while they get big fat paychecks. Thus the mess we are in. If they only understood that you can’t spend what you don’t have and cut out the crap we may actually get through this mess. But for some reason they want to cut out the needy while keeping the turtles. I have no understanding of that thought process! And it’s not about a particular party. They all do it. I have been under the impression (perhaps wrongly) that the tea party seeks to do the above, but in all honesty time will be the judge of that. I have no faith in any of them anymore.
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August 9, 2011 at 10:03 am
Of course, a comment from someone that does not pay taxes!
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August 9, 2011 at 11:02 am
ignore!
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August 9, 2011 at 11:06 am
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/2011/08/09/probe-into-coventry-christian-group-exposes-shocking-anti-abortion-advice-92746-29204917/
Is there no end to the number of devious CPC Mills?
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August 9, 2011 at 12:37 pm
I have not seen any evidence of a CPC Mill that does not lie as a matter of routine.
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August 10, 2011 at 5:54 am
Angie, Teresa, et al., what is it with these CPC places? Why the anger? My daughter ran one for a while. The sweetest people in the world work there! Why do they upset you so?
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August 10, 2011 at 11:44 am
Angie, sadly, There is no end to these horrid CPC Mills.
I have visited several, and they are dens of lies and falsehood and intimidation.
And they could care less after a baby is born, they will not help at all.
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August 12, 2011 at 9:31 am
The CPC Mills are repulsive.
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August 13, 2011 at 8:08 pm
Uh, uh, Marshall, you are repulsive.
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August 9, 2011 at 11:31 am
Deanna, you’d best separate out your teabagging instincts from your “pro-life” issues. One district’s vital need for federal money is every other district’s perception of pork….
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August 9, 2011 at 11:36 am
the mating habits of turtles are not vital needs. Vital means mandatory.
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August 9, 2011 at 1:29 pm
Charles is right. I used to work for a member of Congress who was on the Appropriations committee (the pork committee) and you would be amazed at how members could rationalize something. But, like Charles said, they would ask the committee for money for a study that sounded a bit bizarre but they could rationalize it by saying it brought jobs or something. Meanwhile, however, they are not allowed to do pork anymore. It is verboten….
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August 9, 2011 at 1:55 pm
Deanna, re: studying the mating habits of turtles: if you lived in 1600 with the government distribution of tax revenues we have today, would you have supported funding to build static generators that would cause a spark to leap between the lips of a kissing couple?
Back in the days when electricity was a novelty, it was the apparently frivolous spending of money to build machines like these that enabled scientists to eventually harness it as a servant for the human race. You might consider that it takes a very close look to determine when public money is being misspent. After all, it could easily be argued that we wasted our time going to the moon or having the space shuttle program.
o
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August 9, 2011 at 2:24 pm
I would have opposed it if the alternative were that hungry people who needed the money instead still went hungry while the guys who made the “who gets the money rules” lived it up in the saloon on the beach.
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August 11, 2011 at 10:23 am
pattypoo, consistency aside, i just believe that being willing to make efforts to help those who need help is the right thing to do.
kate and i discussed at length on her blog that people who claim to give their hearts to god, but refuse to give up their pocket change,which is what this help would amount to, don’t seem very sincere.
part of jesus’ message was one of social justice.
i think that being willing to pay more in taxes to help those in need fall under that category.
btw, i love you too, my friend. 🙂
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August 11, 2011 at 4:58 pm
“pattypoo, consistency aside, i just believe that being willing to make efforts to help those who need help is the right thing to do.”
Well, Rogipoo, your child really needed help when you helped kill him, didn’t he. Why is it now, even though you say you’ve had a change of heart, you are supporting others, like you were then, who are promoting killing?
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August 12, 2011 at 9:33 am
Rogelio – You write like the only rational pro lifer on this blog.
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August 9, 2011 at 1:44 pm
Listen closely enough to Deanna, Rogelio, and you might start to wonder…..
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August 10, 2011 at 9:36 am
I am happy to pay more taxes to help children in need.
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August 10, 2011 at 12:08 pm
Unfortunately your extra tax money does not go to help children in need but rather funds campaigns to protect i/2 inch darter fish from harm (yes it happened). They would rather protect minnows than kids. Don’t fool yourself. The majority of your tax money goes to nonsense.
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August 10, 2011 at 12:56 pm
Really?
I thought the majority went to health care, defense, and infrastructure.
Do you seriously believe the majority goes to nonsense?
Seriously, The Majority?
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August 10, 2011 at 12:57 pm
DeAnna,
to quote you
“The “majority’? That is some more sweeping accusation there. Where are your stats to prove that statement?”
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August 10, 2011 at 2:15 pm
Emanuel … Good luck with getting a literate answer to your question.
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August 10, 2011 at 2:52 pm
I doubt the question will be answered with any reasonableness.
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August 11, 2011 at 4:29 am
No, Manny, Hal, and Kal, literate and reasonable are what you will get if deanna responds. You are the AIs, the adolescent illiterates. Don’t forget that.
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August 11, 2011 at 9:08 am
See – I was right again!
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August 11, 2011 at 9:13 am
Dumbkle * One of the most pathetic things about you is you will die a natural death, a complete failure, never significantly helping children, and your own ego will never allow you to recognize your massive failures as a human being.
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August 11, 2011 at 9:36 am
Haley is right, no intelligable answer, as usual.
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August 11, 2011 at 1:24 pm
Kalk, one of the most pathetic things about you is you will die a natural death, a complete failure, never significantly helping children, and your own ego will never allow you to recognize your massive failures as a human being.
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August 11, 2011 at 1:25 pm
Patricia, stupid people are not allowed to comment. Go away.
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August 12, 2011 at 9:36 am
Incredible. Emanuel, you really called that one. Pro Lifers cannot answer a question about abortion inetlligently.
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August 10, 2011 at 5:21 am
Well..now the majority (but NOT all) “lifers” think that people on the “welfare rolls” are just a bunch of uneducated..lazy..people that don’t want to go to school..go to work..they just want to stay home and “screw”around all day!!
Then they… create more… “uneducated..lazy people that don’t want to go to school..go to work..they just want to stay home and “screw” around all day”…….
They “bitch” about people wanting “abortions”…they “bitch” about people needing welfare…they would probably like this law:
“EXECUTE”… WELFARE RECIPIENTS… “AFTER” BIRTH OF “FULL TERM FETUS”
I bet there would be alot of “lifer’s” that would sign on to that law!!
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August 10, 2011 at 12:09 pm
The “majority’? That is some more sweeping accusation there. Where are your stats to prove that statement?
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August 8, 2011 at 5:08 pm
You Know Pat, You got a point there when you say, “Let’s start thinking and actually TALKING for a change.” I agree! We get no where fast when we try it the other way…the poo slinging way….as has been proven. So, here is a point to think about and talk about…….
If at 24 weeks it looks like a baby to you…and it is obvious to any thinking person that it is a baby…no matter what they call it…..then how is it’s killing justified? Why do the mother’s “rights” trump it’s rights if they are both human beings? This is a legitimate question that I really don’t get the answer to. Pat? Anybody?
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August 9, 2011 at 8:40 am
Watch you language, Deanna, dont ever use the word “poo” again!
Great question, possible fodder for a new blog. I guess off the top of my head…it may look like a “baby” to me but the mother might not perceive it that way. Indeed, as we know it is possible that the mother might not even see what it looks like. But, as I have said before, I have been there when a woman has seen a pregnancy that was that advanced and then she proceeded to have the abortion. I know at that point or at some point there are two human entities involved, but I can only go back to the woman who is the one right here on earth with a name, a life (I know, I know), a family, friends, etc. and I have to defer to her. Late term abortions are particuarly sad, especially when there is a fetal abnormality involved.
Finally, dont forget that our government sanctions killing in different ways, particularly with the death penalty. I’ve said it before that abortion is a form of killing and it is one form that I believe is justified.
So, have you ever had a pro-choicer give an answer like that one??
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August 9, 2011 at 9:20 am
“So, have you ever had a pro-choicer give an answer like that one??”
I rarely get any answer so an answer at all is refreshing.
So basically you are saying that it may look like a baby (and by default if it looks like a baby, smells like a baby, poops (I didn’t say poo) like a baby, cries like a baby, has a baby’s DNA then it must be a baby) so if it is a baby, then why is it logical for the mother to get to decide that it isn’t one simply because she doesn’t want it to be one? I may not want my mortgage to be there but that doesn’t make it go away. Why does she get to say based on an arbitrary “I don’t want it”. It is either a baby or it isn’t. If it is then why is it logical to say someone can kill it?
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August 9, 2011 at 1:34 pm
But Deanna, when it comes to the later abortions especially they normally do not abort “simply” because she doesn’t want a baby. Sometimes, especially in the third trimester, it’s a fetal abnormality and it was a wanted baby. It’s a terrible situation. I’m not sure if you’ve ever done this and it probably would not matter, but you should check out the Allegheny Women’s Health Center and I think on their website they have something called “heart letters” or something like that. It’s letters written by women who were about to abort (or who aborted) and the letters are to their “baby.” It is indeed heartbreaking. I wish you would just try to get into their heads for a moment and no be so judgmental. I dont expect you to convert, of course, just be a little more empathetic….
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August 9, 2011 at 2:17 pm
I’m not trying to be judgmental pat, really I’m not. I am trying to understand the thinking. Late term providers have admitted that the largest majority of late term abortions are on viable healthy infants. “Only 9.4 percent of late abortions at clinics that responded to the U.S. News survey were done for medical reasons, either to protect the mother’s health(a rare situation) or, more commonly, because of fetal defects such as spina bifida and Down’s syndrome (box, Page 32)…for post-20-week abortions generally, about 90 percent were classified by the clinics as “nonmedical.”(1)”When Abortions Come Late in Pregnancy” US News and World Report., Vol 124 Issue 2. This is an older report from 1998 but the point still stands.
and Dr.Tiller himself: Here is a quote by the late famous late-term abortionist Dr. Tiller:
“We have some experience with late terminations; about 10,000 patients between 24 and 36 weeks and something like 800 fetal anomalies between 26 and 36 weeks in the past 5 years.””Speech to the “National Abortion Federation” April 2-4 New Orleans, LA
Only 800 out of 10,000 were for fetal “anomalies
and: Dr. Haskell : Afterwards they were just amazed. They just had no idea. And here they’re rabid supporters of abortion. They work in the office there. And…some of them have never seen one performed…And I’ll be quite frank: most of my abortions are elective in that 20-24 week range…In my particular case, probably 20% are for genetic reasons. And the other 80% are purely elective…” U.S. Congressional Record 1996 p H2919
and: “Of women who had an abortion at 16 or more weeks’ gestation, 71% attributed their delay to not having realized they were pregnant or not having known soon enough the actual gestation of their pregnancy. Almost half were delayed because of trouble in arranging the abortion, usually because they needed time to raise money. One-third did not have an abortion earlier because they were afraid to tell their partner or their parents that they were pregnant.”.Aida Torres and Jacqueline Darroch Forrest, “Why Do Women Have Abortions”, Family Planning Perpectives, 20 Jul/Aug 1988, pp 169-176 (The bimonthly research journal of The Alan Guttmacher Institute
There are more but the point is that most of these late term abortions are not for fetal abnormalities. So, lets set aside the ones with abnormalities for a moment and look at the others. They are having late term abortions on some (apparently a lot) viable babies for elective reasons. How is that justifiable?
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August 10, 2011 at 6:06 am
You cannot understand their thinking, Deanna until you become a woman faced with raising the child you know you can’t. You are unable to see it from anybody else’s point of view. Defender of 1.5 million fetuses, you feel you have paid your dues by only caring for six of them, admirable work in itself but insufficient to establish your creds as a hero for the other 1,499,994 you say you are concerned about. Reason alone is not going to dislodge you from the mindset you’re stuck in; only the responsibility for raising the child you don’t want will start that.
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August 10, 2011 at 7:21 am
It is easy to throw around alot of “stats” when in fact 9.4% 71% actually don’t give you actual #’s but sure makes it sound like alot!!
The bottom line is NO one likes late term abortions!! I do think that most women terminate as early as they can!! The majority of very late term abortions are done due to some reason…either because of something concerning the mother or because of some medical reason regarding the health of the fetus!! It may NOT be a reason that “lifer’s” like..but then it only concerns the woman that is carrying that fetus….NOT the people…Oh! Let’s say…protesting outside the facility……that is rescuing that woman’s life!!! **Her life has to “trump” everything else!!**
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August 10, 2011 at 8:01 am
Deanna wrote: “We have some experience with late terminations; about 10,000 patients between 24 and 36 weeks and something like 800 fetal anomalies between 26 and 36 weeks in the past 5 years.””Speech to the “National Abortion Federation” April 2-4 New Orleans, LA
Only 800 out of 10,000 were for fetal “anomalies
This cherry-picked quote tells us nothing about the other reasons which could be the woman’s physical or emotional health. Is there more to the speech?
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August 10, 2011 at 9:42 am
Kate,
Of course there is more, you are right. And certainly these quotes are cherry picked, taken out of context, anecdotal and devoid of a contextual foundation of relevance.
The regurgitated Pro Life rhetoric shows such a massive lack of compassion it is astounding. Pro Life is such a paradoxical word for their cause most easily shown by the fact that they are unwilling on multiple fronts to help children that are presently in desperate need of help.
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August 11, 2011 at 9:13 am
YOu’ve done your homework, as usual, Deanna. I’m trying to sort it all out. Up to 24 weeks, abortion is elective. Then, after viability, in the vast majority of states you cannot get an abortion unless the woman’s health/life is in danger or, in some states, if there is a fetal abnormality. One thing we have to be careful about is how we define “late term” abortion. Everyone has their own definitions. All I can say is that if a woman came into Doctor Tiller or Doctor Carhart at 28 weeks and just casually said they wanted an abortion, it wouldn’t happen.
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August 11, 2011 at 5:06 pm
You can see why I love d, Pat. When you get a little crazy: “Watch you language, Deanna, dont ever use the word “poo” again!,” she has the perfect response: “poops (I didn’t say poo) like a baby,”
I had lots of responses, but hers trumped mine a dozen.
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August 13, 2011 at 4:58 pm
My betters this morning at the AWC, Pat, said you were kidding with that question. And here I thought you were serious. I’m not as smart as all you killers’ helpers think I am.
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August 8, 2011 at 7:18 pm
I am 61 years old working every odd job since I was 16 years old. Now I have been out of work for 6 years which I thank G.W. and now Mr. Obama. I am now on welfare watching Gun Smoke everyday and a have a full belly. I have paid into the system and now it is my turn to receive. Don’t dish it until you have tried it. I have no desire to return to the rat race of working for Uncle Sam where he gets more of my income than I do. The more I hear about the bad economy the happier I get. If it turns around I may be forced back to work.
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August 9, 2011 at 8:41 am
Hey, Truman! I’m 61 also! But, uh……, what’s your point as it related to abortion?
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August 8, 2011 at 7:58 pm
still think we couldn’t use a few more tax payers.
http://www.htmlbible.com/abortstats.htm
this is actually a much higher number. 53 million since Roe v. Wade. so next time you go whining about the innocent dying in wars..think of this graph.
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August 9, 2011 at 8:42 am
Anonymous, see my question above. I really dont believe that you believe that those 53 million would all be productive, taxpaying, Nobel Prize winning citizens. Do you?
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August 9, 2011 at 10:09 am
Why don’t you start getting DeAnna to pay some taxes to help some children.
Anonymous, what do you do to help the millions of children dying from starvation and diarrhea and poverty?
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August 10, 2011 at 9:44 am
Anonymous doesn’t answer questions.
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August 11, 2011 at 4:39 am
Anon doesn’t help kill them, as you and Todd et al. do, Teresa. My favorite among the al. is Chuckles who says that unless you help each of the “millions of children dying from starvation and diarrhea and poverty,” you have to help kill them.
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August 11, 2011 at 9:39 am
???????
This guy just cannot write to make a point.
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August 11, 2011 at 1:30 pm
redundant — “This guy cannot write” is OK; “this guy cannot make a point” is OK, but “this guy cannot write to make a point” is redundant (that means “stupid”). See above. Moreover, using more than the one punctuation mark called for is also stupid..
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August 10, 2011 at 9:59 am
‘so the next time you go whining about the innocent dying in wars’
Well, there you have it. The truly moral response….who gives a flip about those folks? right?
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August 10, 2011 at 11:54 am
I asked aborticentrism a question above, and now I would like to ask all the pro choicers here the question: what are YOU doing to help all the already born children who couldn’t help being born? How many have YOU adopted? How much money do YOU send to the worlds poverty stricken children? And when you tell me, do I have the right to tell you it isn’t enough, and that unless you are giving till it hurts it doesn’t count?
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August 10, 2011 at 12:56 pm
I’ll speak for myself and tell you that I’m not the one wanting all the children to be born, not the one wanting women to carry a pregnancy to term so that she can adopt the kid to someone else, not the one moralizing against abortion.
Define giving till it hurts. Is that what you like to do–give till it hurts? I’m just not into pain that much. Sorry.
And like prolifers everywhere, you cross the line when you want to know about how much money an individual sends anywhere. It’s none of your business, especially if I’m not promoting overpopulating the earth.
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August 10, 2011 at 2:49 pm
Well Kate, like I said, I’ve been lurking and reading comments, and I started to go back and try to copy and past all the comments from pro choicers on this site to answer you, but realized that you all know exactly what you post and what goes on in this site, but just for the sake of explaining my comment, YOU guys are the ones who brought that up. Your “side” has used it over and over with Deanna. That is where I got it. I was throwing your own comments back at you. YOU guys said that to her, over and over. YOU guys are the ones who keep making the assumption that pro lifers don’t care about the already born, so when we say we do, with proof of what we do to help, you call us liars or tell us it isn’t enough. One person specifically said that unless we are giving till it hurts, it doesn’t matter, and everyone agreed. As for crossing the line about money, I don’t want to know, nor do I think it should be an issue. That’s another reason I picked the name “Nunya”. Again, throwing your own comments back at you. Unless Pat takes down the site right away, what I am saying is easily proved by reading through the comments. I think I started reading the blog 4 or 5 articles ago. The problem is that I didn’t say that that is what I was doing, and I should have. I just assumed you all remember what you post.
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August 10, 2011 at 5:21 pm
I don’t recall personally ever saying anything about giving till it hurts. What I have said over and over is that the woman’s life is a priority. Whatever her needs are, whether it’s an abortion or carrying the pregnancy to term, are what matters.
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August 10, 2011 at 5:22 pm
“I’m not the one wanting all the children to be born . . .” We know that, Kate! You’re the one wanting all the children to be killed before they’re born. Sometimes you talk straight in spite of yourself, don’t you.
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August 8, 2011 at 8:19 pm
Well Pat, in another comment I called you calm and rational, and now that I’ve read this article, I see I am right. The problem is that in our minds we are dealing with absolutes: there is a God and he’s against abortion, there isn’t a God and therefore I can make my own choices. When you believe, you believe, that’s what faith is, and it’s very hard to move anyone off that platform where religion is concerned. (Didn’t know you were a believer did you?) We speak from where we believe, which is an absolute truth to us, or we wouldn’t believe it, therefore it is spoken with authority and conviction. That is why pro-lifers come off sounding hard nosed and unmovable. But surely you admit that pro choicers come off sounding the same but won’t admit it any more that most pro lifers will? You are so right, neither side will give, but there is a right way and a wrong way to share ideas, and your “side” has failed the test in a big way on this blog, and I am so happy to see that you are setting the record straight with this article. If we could just set religion aside and deal with the other issues, such as the sanctity of life, we might make progress. Does it really have to “look” like a baby and have “awareness” to be a life? How much awareness does a newborn Downs syndrome baby have? What about that homeless man who is a drain on society? You see, I believe that throwing out the “sanctity of life” is a Mad Max society waiting to happen. Those cells growing and living years ago, that looked like nothing and had no awareness were YOU, pure and simple, and you had a right to continue on from conception until now without the rights of anyone else superseding your own, including the incubator who found herself housing you for whatever reason. The second we decided to put one segment of the populations rights ahead of the other, we tore down the constitution and all it stands for in one fell swoop, And as a calm, rational man willing to admit truths, you do see that it is a “life” and that we are putting value on one life stage over the other, don’t you?
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August 9, 2011 at 8:47 am
Nunya: Very well said and I do realize that the positions generally stem from one’s religious beliefs. And while I respect your religion (I am an agnostic), my bottom line is that no matter what we do some women will always feel a need to have an abortion. We saw that when abortion was illegal in this country and we see it in other countries right now where it is illegal. And when it is illegal, women will go to desperate and very often, unsafe, methods to abort. So, for me, it is a matter of women’s health and I guess I get stumped when well intentioned people like yourself with firm beliefs can’t see what happened in the past.
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August 10, 2011 at 12:45 pm
I do understand, the health of the women concerns me too, and if they have to get back alley abortions, BOTH woman and child may die. At least the industry should be regulated, and abortions made hard to get. I am still totally against abortion at all, but I don’t understand why the pro choice folks I’ve encountered are rabidly for it at ALL costs?
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August 10, 2011 at 12:53 pm
Well your last statement is totally untrue.
Are you against birth control also?
What about a tubal pregnancy, can an abortion be done then?
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August 10, 2011 at 12:59 pm
Well your pool of pro choice folks must surely be small because not all are “rabidly” for abortion at ALL costs.
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August 11, 2011 at 9:20 am
Nunya, I guess, though, that I am looking at a real live person standing in front of me who is already living a full life and there is a little 8 week fetus inside her unaware of what’s going on, I’d rather that woman be allowed abort it versus having the woman possibly die. I guess it’s a Hobson’s choice, or is it a “Sophie’s Choice,” I forget?
And, clinics are regulated, Nunya. Depends on the state but talk to the clinics in South Carolina, NY and elsewhere and you’d get an earful on how much they are regulated. That might be a good item for a future blog…
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August 11, 2011 at 5:15 pm
Oh, comon, Pat — “I am looking at a real live person standing in front of me who is already living a full life and there is a little 8 week fetus inside her unaware of what’s going on”
And I’m talking to dozens of other people on this blog who are even more unaware of what’s going on. Should I be allowed to kill them?
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August 9, 2011 at 10:11 am
Nun Ya
Which God in the Pantheon of >10,000 gods that people worship, most with their own unique path to salvation is your God?
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August 10, 2011 at 12:00 pm
NunYa. That’s why I picked the name. I’m a religious person. That’s all you need to know, but thanks for asking, If you are interested, (and anyone else here) start a blog about religion, invite me, and we’ll talk all you want. : )
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August 10, 2011 at 1:00 pm
Do you recognize that whatever religion you believe in and draw your moral code is a minority religion on Earth, and the vast Majority don’t believe your religion, and most have never heard of it?
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August 10, 2011 at 3:07 pm
I don’t base my life on what the majority believes. I think and reason and choose what I believe for myself. I guess I don’t understand the point you are making, unless you think we should all just believe what the majority believes without thinking? This is how your question is coming across to me, so if I’m wrong please clarify: I say I love beef, and you ask me if I realize that the majority of the world doesn’t know what beef is, and those that love beef are in the minority. What does it mean? I’m supposed to stop loving beef because I’m in a minority of people knowledgeable about beef?
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August 10, 2011 at 3:15 pm
Wrong.
You are a tiny minority.
You should not impose your minority perspective on others.
Love Beef, go for it, just do not legislate that others must under punishment of law love beef.
Get it?
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August 11, 2011 at 9:17 am
Remy, a “tiny” minority? STILL, being in a “tiny” minority doesn’t change what I believe. (And I don’t believe that people of earth who believe in a higher power in some way are a minority at all) “Minority perspective”? So are you saying that if someone is in the minority on an opinion, they are wrong automatically just because they are the minority? We should all still be living in London by that standard. As far as legislating what others can do, you are kidding right? We legislate everything we are or are not allowed to do, under law. I personally think it’s an infringement of my rights to force me to wear a seat belt, but I am also glad, because of all the irresponsible parents out there, that we have to buckle our children up. Speed limits protect others as well as me. Seat belts only protect me. Therefore you shouldn’t make me do it. See, I do understand the thinking, and agree with it, that a woman’s body is her own and shouldn’t be legislated in any way. But then you throw an innocent, growing life into the mix and we are plunged into a huge moral dilemma. I started chiming in in on this blog because I got tired of all the judgments that prolifers don’t care about women. Trying to disparage every pro life person out there, categorizing us all as backwoods hicks who don’t care about women, don’t care about born children, etc is just a smokescreen blurring the real issues. The real issue isn’t a woman’s rights. Woman already have them. Every right anyone else has. The issue is whether that not born yet human being be granted rights under the constitution. Slaves were not seen as persons either, but they were. Surely no one out there will deny that it is a human growing in there, at whatever stage of it’s development?
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August 11, 2011 at 9:48 am
NunYa, you still do not get it.
Because of your belief system, a tiny minority one at that, it is a Huge Moral quandary for You.
For many of us with our belief systems (the majority), it is not. Most people believe abortion is OK sometimes. You said it was never OK. Therefore legislation will reflect that.
Your minority position will never become law, because in this republic people on the extreme fringes will not get legislation passed.
You still have unanswered questions,
Is abortifacient Birth Control OK?
Is it OK to do an abortion for an ExtraUterine Pregnancy?
Is the Morning After Pill OK (i.e. would you vote to get rid of it?)
etc., etc., . . .
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August 11, 2011 at 5:21 pm
Pat’s right, NY. You can’t talk to these adolescent illiterates. They can’t read what you say. I blame the school system. You have to try to educate them yourself.
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August 10, 2011 at 6:00 am
So, NunYa, what can you tell us about the Ceausescu regime’s Roumanian orphans? They’re a Mad Max subculture in a society where abortion was forbidden.
So-called “pro-lifers” have this fantasy life in which they project all sorts of evil that will happen unless abortion is stopped.When I try to point them to what real children are going through every day and challenge them to do something about a real problem, they deny, evade or explode in anger. Do we have a problem here? Yes.
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August 10, 2011 at 12:36 pm
I believe that coming into agreement that one persons life matters more than another persons life leads to the sort of thinking, eventually, that lead to Hitler’s regime’. I believe that when a society adopts the stance that one person’s life is more important than another person’s life, it is a Pandora’s Box, opening to a plethora of ills we never expected. I’m not “pro life” only, I’m pro thinking through to the bigger picture of where we wish to end up as a society. This thinking concerns the taking of innocent life only, of making our wants, desires, needs, etc, the standard for which we measure whether someone else gets a life at all or not. I also believe that if we “need” to go to war, we should, knowing that by it’s very nature innocent lives may be taken in collateral damage. I also believe that a person proven to have premeditated the taking of an innocent life through murder should get the death sentence. So you see, I’m not pro life no matter what, I’m pro “right to life” in the first place where the issue of abortion is concerned. I’m COMPLETELY for human rights, that’s why I’m against abortion. No pro choicer can claim to be for human rights, because they pick and choose. I’m for the woman AND the baby. I don’t deny the issues those babies raise, I just believe that we are smart enough to come up with other ways to deal with this problem. Education is a good place to start. I wonder, (I really have no idea) if part of Planned Parenthoods agenda is a huge push toward educating the women who seek their care, so that unwanted pregnancies are prevented rather than ended?
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August 10, 2011 at 1:02 pm
What is your solution, since you are thinking, to do with the millions of frozen embryo’s that will die unless reproductive women incubate them.
What do you suggest we do with them?
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August 10, 2011 at 3:26 pm
Why do you think there are “millions” of embryo’s out there frozen? Because people want babies. They are willing to pay any amount and go to just about any lengths to get them. I know this statement will incite a riot, but there really are so many families out there wanting to adopt infants. I personally wish more people who want to adopt would consider older children, but it’s a well established fact that more people want infants than older children. Many women are adopting those embryo’s. I know of one personally in my town. She was given 5, implanted with three. One took. She now has two more chances to have another child. Just as there are many, many women out there who don’t want a child for whatever reason, there are many many who do.
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August 10, 2011 at 3:34 pm
The question remains unanswered.
No riot (as you predicted) was incited, incredibly.
Many women ARE NOT adopting the millions of embryos, get your facts straight. There are a few examples. That’s it, compared to the millions that are frozen.
There are far more embryos than people trying to adopt them. They will die of frozen damage soon, or of being thawed out.
What should be done with them?
If Pro Lifers rose to the occasion all the lives of these cells could be saved.
NunYa, would you adopt 5?
Or people could spend the time and money saving starving children.
NunYa be pragmatic, what should be done, Right now?
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August 10, 2011 at 5:26 pm
Love the phrasing of going to war and losing lives as collateral damage. They’re murdered. Face it. Real human beings, born humans, feet on the ground human being murdered by warmongers.
Further, how can you ignore, NunYa , the contradictory nature of your comments about needing to go to war as something you believe is necessary and your claim to be pro “right to life”????
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August 10, 2011 at 9:07 pm
This site is giving me a headache trying to figure out why there is a reply space under some comments and not under others. If I miss a question, ask it again, because sometimes I’m having to pick the first reply button I come to and then scroll back up to try and answer the questions/comments without one. Anyway…honestly guys, there is NO way to go into what I think here in depth, but I will say that what if, years ago, rather than coming up with ways to get pregnant, such as embryo implantation, we had focused our attention on public awareness of all the children up for adoption? I’m touching the tip of the iceburg of such a deep discussion, so there is no need to tear into me. I know I’m being VERY basic for the sake of space, but we put the cart before the horse. Before we solve one problem in society, we create another. I don’t know what I would do with all those embryo’s. Just because we keep digging ourselves deeper into more and more moral issues doesn’t change the fact that I believe life starts at conception, and that morally, we shouldn’t interfere with it. As far as war, I hate war and loss of life as much as the next person, but soldiers defending this country is no different than a police officer doing it. Innocent people are killed in the crossfire of police shootouts at times, do you call that murder? Should we do away with law enforcement? War is just law enforcement on a bigger scale. It sucks, for sure, but what would you have suggested we do when Pearl Harbor was attacked? I can’t answer that question either, other than we all learn to get along !00% of the time, and no one ever break the law or try to take over other countries, stop oppressing their own, and terrorists stop being terrorists. Do you have another answer, because I don’t. I’ve watched the children of several close friends march off to war, and I’ve prayed for months for their safe return, agonizing with my friends, once even rushing to one after a dream she had about her sons camp being bombed. War is hell, and I’m certainly no warmonger. But I am a realist. We can’t even get along in cyberspace on this blog because we are on opposing sides of an issue, how do you expect entire countries to lay aside their differences and get along? War is a necessary evil, and our military are not murderers.
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August 11, 2011 at 4:49 am
Amen
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August 11, 2011 at 9:23 am
I have the same issue about replies, Nunya. Not sure why it does that but it gives me a headache also…
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August 11, 2011 at 9:54 am
If you are a realist, then why is it so hard to come up with some realistic answers to real problems for you?
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August 11, 2011 at 5:24 pm
Don’t bother answering, NY. Patricia is an AI.
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August 10, 2011 at 6:11 am
I’ve found a second powerful prolife voice for my newsletter (written for, and mostly by, incarcerated prolifers). I hope you don’t mind my transferring #6 there, NY.
(And Todd, “own unique” is redundant.)
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August 10, 2011 at 6:47 am
Not sure what you mean, John. What exactly are you asking about “transferring” something??
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August 10, 2011 at 9:47 am
Pat can you translate John’s note?
It is impossible to understand.
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August 10, 2011 at 9:51 am
NY’s writing in #6. I’m asking permission to transfer that to my newsletter.
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August 10, 2011 at 12:49 pm
What do you mean that your readers are incarcerated? I guess I have no control over who reposts my comments, but if you are asking permission, I would like to know who you are and who your readers are? (Only John please, I spend way too much time wading through inane comments already, no offense.)
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August 10, 2011 at 2:34 pm
Oh, I forgot to say who I am. I am a retired school teacher. I’m Catholic. I love fishing. I’m sports-crazy. Get specific and I’ll probably tell you the truth.
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August 10, 2011 at 5:27 pm
Arrogant much?
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August 11, 2011 at 4:51 am
What did I tell you about that word arrangement, Kate!
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August 10, 2011 at 2:13 pm
Fewer than twenty of us prolifers are in jail for breaking the laws that protect the industry of death. Many of them are good writers. I have a newsletter, skyp1.blogspot.com, that promulgates their writings. I also like to include other prolife writings, like your #6, but only with permission.
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August 10, 2011 at 2:20 pm
You could be helping starving children with that time, instead you waste it on a convicted incarcerated felon newsletter?
Now I know what we are dealing with here. This Dunkle harbors a gruesome illiterate mentality.
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August 10, 2011 at 3:38 pm
I don’t have time to research your blog, I barely have time for this one, so go ahead. But I will state that if any of them are in jail for killing abortion providers, or blowing up clinics, I don’t agree with that, but I do understand their mentality. They are saving babies, so they were willing to go to extreme lengths. But again, if you believe in the sanctity of human life, you STILL can’t choose one life over the other. We have laws for a reason, and that’s the avenue we should pursue. Otherwise anarchy ensues.
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August 10, 2011 at 3:43 pm
Dunkle,
do you agree with NunYa above?
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August 10, 2011 at 4:00 pm
I disagree with his calling them “abortion providers”; I call them baby killers.
I disagree with his saying we can’t choose one life over the other; sometimes we have to.
I disagree with his saying anarchy will ensue; I say anarchy is here already.
No matter, he’s still the best on here (now that d’s gone).
No matter. He’s stil the best on here.
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August 10, 2011 at 10:00 am
thanks for the pedantic response, dunkle
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August 10, 2011 at 11:22 am
Pedantic?
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August 10, 2011 at 11:47 am
Kate is right, Dunkle’s tone is typically, unjustifiably Pedantic.
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August 10, 2011 at 12:25 pm
See Kate? You say something stupid and Tony picks it right up because she doesn’t know any better.
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August 10, 2011 at 1:03 pm
Kate,
see, Tonya was right!!
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August 10, 2011 at 4:01 pm
Manny too.
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August 9, 2011 at 7:49 am
“Does it really have to “look” like a baby and have “awareness” to be a life?”
** “NO…But to be a “person..with RIGHTS it has to be “BORN”!!!
” How much awareness does a newborn Downs syndrome baby have? What about that homeless man who is a drain on society?”
** “You see, they are “born” therefore they have the “right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness” …but until we are talking about a “born person” you should NOT have any say so over what happens (unless of course you are the woman that carries that fetus)!
“The second we decided to put one segment of the populations rights ahead of the other, we tore down the constitution and all it stands for in one fell swoop”…….
** “The last time I looked at any stats on the “population” of the world…”fetus’s” were NOT counted in those stats…does that tell you anything?? I think it speaks for itself!!
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August 9, 2011 at 8:16 am
Lorraine,
This is what I don’t understand about the way you guys use “rights’ to justify killing……..A cow has no constitutional rights but if someone uses them for target practice and leaves millions of them laying dead in the field then they would get in all sorts of trouble. Cnn would be called, etc, Same with cats, dogs, horses, chimps. We have laws that protect these from animal cruelty. People got all angry because Sarah Palin went hunting and they get mad about Polar Bears being disturbed and wolves being shot. Usually it is the same people(liberals) who argue for the ‘right’ to kill a fetus simply because it is “unborn”. Why as society, do we have compassion on mere animals but not on humans. You said you were a clinic manager for 20 years. I am sure during that time that you saw a lot of dead fetus’. I don’t understand why there is no compassion for them regardless of the laws or the ‘rights’ of the woman. If I saw a dead baby (and I have through a premature delivery at 21 weeks) it would absolutely break my heart as it would to see any dead baby. I don’t understand how you guys dismiss that dead baby so easily just because it ‘wasn’t born yet” when your heart HAD to be saying “it’s a baby”. If not in your mind then how do you dismiss it in your heart? Can you please explain…or Pat…anybody?
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August 9, 2011 at 8:51 am
I will let Lorraine speak for herself but in my experience with clinics, many staff people do feel “compassion” for the fetus, if that is the right word. They can certainly see what is happening. Indeed, just about every doctor has their limits in terms of how far they will abort. They are not monolithic. It is a sad situation on many fronts. But, in the end, they choose to focus on the needs of that woman right in front of them who may have travelled hours and hours to get to that clinic. Indeed, George Tiller had women flying in from overseas on a regular basis and he elected to serve them…
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August 11, 2011 at 4:55 am
“I will let Lorraine speak for herself” — you shouldn’t have.
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August 10, 2011 at 8:05 am
Deanna..I really don’t like to compare the issues regarding abortion to the issue of what is animal cruelty vs killing animals for food!! Using that analogy I could come back with I have never understoond how “anti-choice” crowd can be against abortion but on the other hand support “capial punishment”…I have never understood that!!
I am not sure how old you are…but, I remember when abortion was “illegal” because I was faced with an unplanned, unwanted pregnancy…just on the edge of Roe vs Wade becoming the “law of the land”….It was at that time that 1. Sex education was NOT taught!! 2. Birth Control was available (the pill) only if you were married!! 3. abortion was available in another country/or the corner butcher shop your choice!!
That’s where I am coming from so in 1971 as a teen I became pregnant…couldn’t go out of the country…had a Catholic/marine father that would not have been very supportive…(let me just say that Pat Conroy’s..The Great Santini…and my father were stationed on the same base at the same time…very simular people!!)
I chose an “illegal abortion” and decided that after nursing school I would devote my professional life to making sure that women…would be able to access safe..legal..medical care for their reproductive needs!! That is exactly what I did…
What I saw during those years Deanna were alot of women with breaking hearts that they had to make that decision to terminate their pregnancy..after much thought..discussion with their families and friends and prayer (if that was their belief) they came to believe that was the answer for them!! Many dfferent reasons brought them to that point…they came to us because …they knew if they did nothing they would deliver a child!! They chose NOT to do that…they were not “tricked” they made that choice of their own free will!! We were there to see that they were treated with respect…they were given SAFE & LEGAL medical care!!
I guess we will have to agree to disagree…because if you and the rest of your buddies would open your heart and “hear” the women and their stories perhaps you could see more than a “chubby..little cherbic angel baby cuddled in someone’s arms” and see the woman’s heart breaking becasue of the terrible story that is her life!! Why is she less important????
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August 10, 2011 at 8:57 am
Lorraine, you are talking about things Deanna doesn’t want to understand because they get in the way of her narrative.
Congratulations for the person you became based on learning from your experiences!
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August 10, 2011 at 10:01 am
Charles, I found the same principle in effect with the prolife trolls outside abortion clinics. They don’t want anything to mess up their fairy tale narrative. In other words, nothing complicated. Just simple lies.
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August 11, 2011 at 5:08 am
“Why is she less important????” Here’s the problem. LDM asks this abysmally stupid question (with four marks) , and Chuckles and Kate become her cheering squad.
Look, LDM, our horrible laws have actually made her so much more important that she is allowed to pay someone to torture the other to death! Don’t you see how you have twisted reality to make the unreal real? To make Satan God?
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August 9, 2011 at 8:53 am
By the way, this is a great discussion!
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August 9, 2011 at 9:05 am
Check out:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/148880/Plenty-Common-Ground-Found-Abortion-Debate.aspx
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August 9, 2011 at 9:12 am
Re: On the other hand, to the pro-lifers out there, you are never gonna convince me that a 6 week fetus is a baby or a “person” as some of you would suggest. Get real.
What is it then? What were you at that age?
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August 9, 2011 at 10:14 am
Anonymous,
(can you get a name?)
are you against most Birth Control, like DeAnna is?
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August 9, 2011 at 11:07 am
Todd, Pat has specifically asked us to have legitimate conversations without the name calling, personal attacks, attacks on religion ,flames and the like. Everyone else is trying to do that can you please stop and join us in real dialogue? We are trying to understand each others positions on the issue of abortion. I would like to hear what these people have to say about that. I posted a question above that I would love to hear your response to. I am genuinely interested. thanks for understanding.
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August 9, 2011 at 11:11 am
Do you consider the above a personal attack?
“Anonymous,
(can you get a name?)
are you against most Birth Control, like DeAnna is?”
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August 9, 2011 at 11:25 am
I think your words are inflammatory.
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August 9, 2011 at 12:28 pm
You are too sensitive in your misperception of tone.
I was trying to understand Anonymous’s position.
That’s all.
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August 9, 2011 at 12:38 pm
I was talking about the taxpayer comments directed at me and the birth control comments directed at me. I explained that I do not personally pay taxes because I have no income. My Hubby supports me, he pays taxes, not I. We were talking about me specifically in that thread. Someone who was trying to start an argument took my words out of context and has been using them that way ever since. You are parroting that. The birth control thing is the same. I never said I was against all BC,only abortive types. You guys again take my words out of context and use them to try and start an argument. Please stop so that we can have logical, meaningful conversations. tks.
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August 10, 2011 at 9:51 am
DeAnna – you are too sensitive, what Todd asked was completely Germane to understanding.
By the way,
Should a Pharmacist be allowed to not fill a Doctor’s prescription for contraception that the Pharmacist feels is an abortifacient?
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August 9, 2011 at 4:01 pm
Todd, the reason Deanna is vague about the types of birth control is that the pursuit of such knowledge gets in the way of her mission to be against abortion; it’s outside her very, very strong focus.
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August 9, 2011 at 5:54 pm
Anonymous – What is your position on abortion? I’m really confused …
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August 9, 2011 at 1:36 pm
Agree with Deanna on name calling. Cool it, folks. But Deanna, I dont recall ever hearing what kind of birth control DO you support? Thanks
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August 9, 2011 at 2:22 pm
Any kind that doesn’t cause abortions. There are a lot, too many to go into here plus no time to document it all. But there are plenty of barrier methods, spermicides , etc. As far as I understand it there are also high dose Birth control pills that are not abortive (although there is some discussion about that in pro-life circles, not being a Dr. I wouldn’t want to specify on that one). The morning after pill also has some controversy in pro-life circles with some drs. believing they could be abortive and other saying no way, so again I would be afraid to make an uneducated guess about that one.
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August 9, 2011 at 5:51 pm
You have evaded this question so many times.
Almost all hormonal and IUD based birth control cause abortions sometimes.
That is most of the effective birth control.
So you are against the use of the most effective and widely used birth control. Why can’t you admit it?
I think it is because if the most simplistic brain finds your paradoxical positions impossible to recognize with out serious cognitive dissonance.
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August 9, 2011 at 6:00 pm
Alexandra, she needs to be a hero! She finds it easiest to be a hero by protecting babies from murder. So she has to define the fetus as a baby and abortion as murder, even if the abortion is effected on a cystoblast by a pharmaceutical compound.
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August 9, 2011 at 6:12 pm
IUD’s cause abortions. Low dose Birth Control pills can cause abortions. I am not for them. It doesn’t matter to me if they are the most effective or not. I am still not for them. I did not evade the question at all.
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August 9, 2011 at 6:32 pm
DeAnna,
So you would deny women the choice of Hormonal and IUD based Birth control if you could?
Easy question, please don’t be evasive.
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August 10, 2011 at 9:52 am
DeAnna,
Will you answer the question?
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August 10, 2011 at 12:19 pm
No! I have answered it at least a dozen times. No sense in going around in circles so that you can pick apart my answers. I made myself clear as to what I believe.
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August 10, 2011 at 1:06 pm
DeAnna,
Stop lying.
You definitively wrote that you would get rid of birth control that also happen to be abortifacients.
Can you be honest?
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August 10, 2011 at 12:59 pm
Did I miss something? Pat asked Deanna a question, and I thought she answered it very clearly. Pat, would you please chime in on whether you feel Deanna evaded the question you asked her? I ask, because it seems the pro choice people on this site are DETERMINED to start trouble of the kind that inspired me to stop lurking and start posting. What do you think about that Pat?
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August 10, 2011 at 1:07 pm
NunYa
You are one of the worst offenders.
You do not answer questions.
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August 10, 2011 at 3:43 pm
I am “one of the worst offenders”!!! LOL! I have been here 24 hours or so. Good grief.
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August 10, 2011 at 2:19 pm
NY, this blog is filled with AIs (adolescent illiterates) like Manny above. “You never answer questions” is their favorite comment. They themselves have no idea what the questions are.
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August 11, 2011 at 9:31 am
I thought Deanna answered the birth control question, Nunya. And, look there are people on both sides of this issue who feel very, very strongly and, yes, they do want to “start trouble.” But most are pretty good, I think…And folks are free to ignore them.
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August 11, 2011 at 10:12 pm
Thank you Pat. Abortion is legal and I don’t like it, but no progress will be made as long as people are just ranting at each other. I agree with civil disobedience, I agree with talking to women quietly as they go into clinics, I do not agree with screaming, gnashing of teeth, renting of clothes, name calling and the lot, from either side. Mainly because it doesn’t work. If it did, I’d dedicate my life to going to every clinic I could and just yelling at someone. If it would get my taxes lowered, I’d stand and yell at the White House doors. It’s ridiculous and ineffective. I was beginning to believe that this blog wasn’t really a space to try to change minds by sharing thoughts, but rather just a forum to disparage and discredit ALL pro lifers. I called you out on this because I know these highly educated people see clearly that she didn’t evade the questions. It just feels like a witch hunt around here, and it surprises me.
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August 10, 2011 at 1:43 pm
I saw this a few minutes ago:
Anderson Cooper 360
”600,000 kids on the brink of starvation. That should be a headline from around the world.” -Anderson Cooper live from Somalia tonight
What about all these children….in this respect does the “anit-choice” crowd think that the people in Somalia should be given the means to prevent pregnancy??? Is it OK for them to be given BC that “causes abortion”…their words!!
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August 10, 2011 at 2:07 pm
We have yet to read a ProLifer who is against Birth Control answer this important question.
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August 10, 2011 at 2:24 pm
Now you shall, Hal. The question is, do I think the starving people in Somalia should be given the poisons, the balloons, the snips, the gruesome plastic inserts, etc. that sometimes prevent pregnancy but which more often actually lead to pregnancy? No, I think they should be given food.
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August 10, 2011 at 3:05 pm
Do you give them any food?
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August 10, 2011 at 4:05 pm
yes
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August 10, 2011 at 3:46 pm
Why can’t they be given birth control that doesn’t cause abortions?
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August 10, 2011 at 3:49 pm
Again, you are on the fringe.
Why can’t they choose birth control that they feel is best for their bodies and not have you interfere with control of their bodies.
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August 10, 2011 at 3:51 pm
Would you seriously deny women deny women access to all hormonal and IUD based birth control as well as the Morning After Pill?
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August 14, 2011 at 9:33 am
You adolescent killers’ helpers do focus on masturbatory sex, don’t you. You know, though, you’re right to. It’s masturbatory sex that’s led to the slaughter of millions of innocents. That’s where all uncontrolled appetites lead — to death. None of you would have gotten past childhood if your appetites had not been curbed by those who knew better. You’d have succumbed to snicker bars and cotton candy washed down with coke.
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August 9, 2011 at 4:07 pm
Has anybody noticed just how much of the so-called “pro-life” arguments here are about being against “killing,” when an actual pro-lifer would be arguing about being for caring?
I think it is very easy to be against something rather than for something else,but am I wrong?
Is it harder to be against killing than it is to be a nurturer?
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August 9, 2011 at 5:53 pm
Absolutely true.
Pro lifers never seem to want to care for children. Another incredible paradox.
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August 9, 2011 at 6:06 pm
Alexandra, there are a few who do very much good– I suspect Deanna is being honest when she says she’s adopted six. However, those very few are the synechdoche, the part that stands in for the whole. In the Chain of Life demonstrations that used to be held in my town, everybody talked about the pro-lifers who adopted a kid or even five kids. If you talked to 100 of them, you’d have come away with the impression that there must be at least 100 to 500 adopted kids in my town, all adopted by so-called “pro-lifers.” Actually there were only six adopted kids being used in 100 converstations as the speaker’s justification for being aborticentric.
So, Deanna is going to come back at you and engage in synechdoche– claiming that she represents the whole of the dysfunctional self-help movement.
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August 9, 2011 at 6:35 pm
I get it.
Some of these Pro Lifers want to get rid of birth control.
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August 10, 2011 at 9:55 am
I agree, from what I have seen here, Pro Lifers do not care about children.
They are laser focused on abortion, at the cost of actually saving children’s lives.
It is sad to watch people care more for a fertilized egg than a child sick and in poverty.
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August 10, 2011 at 1:08 pm
Does one cancel the other out? Can I care about the egg AND the children I worked with at my local WOMEN’S crisis center? Or the ones I support financially? Or the poverty stricken ones I helped in classes I taught? Let me get the “logic” straight: If we care about the unborn we by default don’t care about the already born. Is that really what you believe, down to a person? Or are you just throwing around the same judgmental attitude you accuse pro lifers of? And I mean it, I am being serious, because it blows my mind. I don’t expect this kind of thinking among the educated.
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August 10, 2011 at 1:12 pm
Do you not recognize the Opportunity costs of time, resources, and funds?
They must be parceled appropriately.
I would rather feed a 1000 starving children, than buy $1,000 in liquid nitrogen to save a few frozen embryos.
Which would you choose NunYa?
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August 10, 2011 at 3:55 pm
Maybe I can sincerely answer this question in a way that will help you understand the thinking of a person for whom life begins at conception, and therefore should be protected, an who also grieves over all the starving children in the world: It would be a “Sophie’s Choice”.
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August 10, 2011 at 3:57 pm
Please elaborate to clarify.
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August 10, 2011 at 4:09 pm
redundant
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August 10, 2011 at 6:50 am
Not to argue for them, but i think the pro-lifer would say they are against “killing” and also care for the woman and the baby and some, like Deanna, would say – and have said – that they have cared for “unwanted” kids…
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August 10, 2011 at 9:00 am
“I’m against killing babies!” There, I’m now a hero for the unborn. That took about two seconds.
I also was a low-income single parent. That took some 15 million seconds. Nobody calls me a hero for that.
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August 10, 2011 at 9:57 am
I agree.
The Pro Lifers metrics on helping children and the opportunity costs of their time and resources as reflected in real data is pathetic – They could help millions of dying children instead, but they choose to protect frozen embryos, and to try and make some forms of contraception illegal.
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August 10, 2011 at 10:11 am
Talk to the “advocates for life” or “sidewalk counselors” or whatever the hell they choose to call themselves. Ask them how many children have they adopted. Deanna seems to be the only one who has stepped up to the plate. The trolls who hang around in Allentown adopt signs, adopt literature, borrow others’ children or dogs as props in their bizarre circus of the absurd, but never adopt any children. It’s just too complicated and too messy. They’d rather throw baby showers or dangle promises (of free ultrasound, free pregnancy test, diapers, formula, baby clothes) then drive their fancy cars back home to their sweet little life in the suburbs, far away from the realities of poverty and other social problems.
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August 10, 2011 at 10:48 am
The Pro Life trolls are the among the sleaziest of the several Pro Life cults.
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August 10, 2011 at 2:27 pm
Ardy is among the sleaziest of the many people who promote killing other people
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August 10, 2011 at 3:08 pm
Rate the moral value of this Dunkle guy that makes a newsletter for convicted felons instead of feeding children.
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August 10, 2011 at 4:12 pm
Rate the moral value of this Remy guy who responds to stupidities with more stupidities instead of feeding children.
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August 10, 2011 at 4:19 pm
I feed a lot of children Dunkle.
How much effort do you place in that similar effort?
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August 10, 2011 at 4:34 pm
“I feed a lot of children Rem. How much effort . . .” (That’s it! Fini! I cannot keep quoting this mangled syntax. Back in the days I’d fail you all. Now I just smolder.)
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August 10, 2011 at 10:34 am
Theresa, there’s also the reality that born children, especially adolescents, are frightening to some of the prolifers. I’ve witnessed particularly rowdy ones harass them as they stand around with their ugly signs. They fear those kids. They don’t want to care for them or love them.
It’s so much easier to care for embryos and fetuses, to throw a shower and bestow gifts on a women. Then congratulate themselves for “saving” a baby when, in fact, it’s the woman/mother who is the saviour. These women love to take credit for everything….fertility, birth, and a baby shower. It gives them the chance to live vicariously, to be pregnant again, through other women.
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August 10, 2011 at 10:51 am
Pro Lifers remind me of some of Nietzsche’s comments.
Where he comments (later adopted by the Nazi’s) that the individual’s body is subjugated to the brutality of the state.
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August 10, 2011 at 4:03 pm
I have never, in my 53 years of life, met anyone who is afraid of children, pro life or not.
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August 10, 2011 at 5:34 pm
Well, you must live is Disneyworld. In Allentown, I’ve witnessed teens who are fed up with protesters garbage and take them to task. To say they were frightened is an understatement. But of course they always play the victim card. If they’d stay home they wouldn’t be subjected to hooligans.
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August 11, 2011 at 8:06 am
I think I’ll save this one for our next court case. It contradicts Kate’s usual line — that we do the intimidating, the harassing, the frightening, and that we are the hooligans. (Give ’em enough rope . . .)
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August 11, 2011 at 5:32 pm
““I’m against killing babies!” There, I’m now a hero for the unborn. That took about two seconds.
I also was a low-income single parent. That took some 15 million seconds. Nobody calls me a hero for that.”
Nobody should take you seriously, Chuck, because you first sentence is a lie. You are for killing babies.
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August 11, 2011 at 5:18 am
“Is it harder to be against killing than it is to be a nurturer?”
Chuck’s another twister, Lexis. What he really means is, “We have to help torture them to death unless we are willing and able to spend the hundreds of thousands of dollars that it would cost to raise each of the million and a half we kill every year through college.” One does not have to argue with these kayhaitchers; all one has to do is quote them.
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August 10, 2011 at 5:47 am
I haven’t yet read the first sixty comments on this one, Pat, so I’m a virgin. Drop the first three paragraphs and you’ve written another good one. Now I’ll go back and read.
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August 10, 2011 at 6:51 am
Thanks, John! (I think)…
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August 10, 2011 at 6:00 am
The logic behind the prolife’s ban on birth control is deceptively simple: if it kills a fertilized egg, it’s abortion. But not all BCPs work the same way. Some prevent ovulation and cause a thickening of the woman’s cervical mucus that blocks sperm. And, if the egg is fertilized, some BCPs create an unreceptive environment in the uterine lining [this is where the fertilized egg fails or, to use prolife drama, an abortion occurs]. But here’s the kicker: Not all BCPs work the same for every woman. It seems reasonably wise to allow clinicians to help women decide which BCP is best for them rather than accepting any religious group to make judgments about medical practices.
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August 10, 2011 at 6:53 am
I can’t prove it, but deep down I believe that most pro-lifers actually support birth control. What do ya think, Kate or Deanna?
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August 10, 2011 at 7:17 am
My guess, and it’s only a guess, is that an overwhelming majority of women who, now, at post reproductive age, disdain birth control, likely used some form during their fertile years. If they had two to four children, what are the odds that they only used NaPro Technology or something similar?
My own documentary research students, working on stories from the intersection of identity, gender and religion, focused on personal stories. Some of them created short digital stories about their mothers and sisters who were devout Catholics BUT refused to let the Church dictate their reproductive health care. For some of these stories, abortion was also on the table, so to speak. Of course, some of the stories were about brothers and fathers and reproduction was not part of their stories. (And still others focused on how to raise children in a marriage where both were Jewish but one was ultra conservative.)
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August 10, 2011 at 10:00 am
How come nobody’s asking me what I think of that masturbatory practice that you folks refer to a birth control but which is actually contraception. Birth control involves control, you know, like dieting. But you don’t argue for that; you argue for indulgence, but call it control.
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August 10, 2011 at 10:54 am
Because your perspective is far from 99% of the population, asking you is an irrelevant waste of space and electrons, as would be your answer.
Even answering this time is a waste, I won’t waste electrons on you.
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August 10, 2011 at 12:21 pm
Yo, Stu, you just wasted dozens!
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August 10, 2011 at 3:09 pm
Not the Pro Lifers on this site!
They stated they want to take away Birth Control.
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August 10, 2011 at 8:07 am
If you want to see the origin of some prolifers’ comments, go to clinicquotes.com
Lots of copy and paste stuff seen on this blog….
And then we wonder about bias, misinformation and downright lies.
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August 10, 2011 at 11:50 am
Unreal!
Pro Lifers just lie constantly!
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August 10, 2011 at 10:00 am
So, i got to ask this, because my birth control failed i have to have this fetus growing and raise until it can survive on it’s on, come on, who will help me with school, with food, with everything that it will need? COME ON………. stop being blind for your own choice, it is my body and i will take care the way it is convenient to me!
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August 10, 2011 at 10:55 am
Certainly you will not get help from pro lifers, despite the fact that they would want to force your pregnancy and take away your right to control your body.
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August 11, 2011 at 5:27 am
“i will take care the way it is convenient to me!” Now suppose, Han, you find Ardy inconvenient. Say, because suddenly it hits you that he’s as stupid as you. May you kill him too?
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August 10, 2011 at 11:22 am
I get the point that nobody will help this Hanna with anything, but for sure some women do use abortion as birth control, unfortunately.
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August 10, 2011 at 11:51 am
Can you provide an example or a magnitude to your claim?
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August 10, 2011 at 3:10 pm
Sonia? . . .
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August 10, 2011 at 12:38 pm
Well guys, I said this day was coming and here it is….don’t clap too loudly…school is starting so I gotta make my exit. No time to debate during the school year… well, maybe a tiny bit…I may slip in from time to time to say hi and get on somebody’s nerves. Anyway, I have things I have to get done. My time here has been definitely educational.
To the person who invited me to come give my pro-life perspective (you know who you are) thank you for inviting me and attempting to get a balanced perspective. I respect that.
Pat, as you can see from the comments on this blog, even after we were specifically asked to stop ridiculing people, but instead ridicule ideas, a lot still prefer to attack people instead of ideas. You seem to be different and I appreciate and respect your willingness to try and be fair. It is refreshing to see someone who wants to discuss major issues of humanity in a calm, mature way. Not everyone can or is willing to do that. Thank you for being a trailblazer in that respect.
To the rest of you…..you will figure it out eventually…..just kidding, put your rocks down 🙂
See Ya’ll (that’s southern for goodbye FYI)
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August 10, 2011 at 2:31 pm
We lose one, d; we get one, NY.
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August 10, 2011 at 2:49 pm
What abt my responce to you at 8:00AM??? You never responded Deanna??
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August 10, 2011 at 3:12 pm
Why bother?
It will be a biased evasive answer anyway.
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August 11, 2011 at 6:07 am
It would be gratifying to see that passion turned into understanding. We are watching Saul gallop down the road to Damscus in search of more heretic Jews.
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August 11, 2011 at 8:12 am
I like this metaphor, Chuck, but who does it refer to, explain it.
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August 10, 2011 at 3:56 pm
NunYa asks above: ” Are pro choice folks exempt from taking care of any of those children, who had no choice that they were born into the situations they were, just because you didn’t agree with their births in the first place?”
NunYa, almost by definition “pro-choicers” should be called the true pro-lifers, because they intend– and usually do– raise to adulthood every “unborn human” they want “rescued,” something the vast, vast majority of so-called “pro-lifers” absolutely refuse to do. Since they seek no power over the choice of others who might or might not want to have a child, they don’t feel an obligation toward children in cruel or difficult circumstances. However, they do feel compassion toward them and in general provide as much assistance as the self-proclaimed “pro-lifers” do. They might not agree with the wisdom of the woman who chooses to give birth, but apart from the familial claim they might have an urge to exert, they don’t interfere with her decision. I speak from a broad range of experience on this.
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August 10, 2011 at 3:59 pm
Aborticentrism is right on the money.
I find that more Pro Choice people are willing to actually do the hard work of taking care of needy children.
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August 10, 2011 at 4:16 pm
You two deserve each other.
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August 10, 2011 at 4:22 pm
Dunkle – Why not reply intelligently?
When you do this you are taken as just a foolish nusaince?
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August 10, 2011 at 4:26 pm
You three
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August 11, 2011 at 6:04 am
Remy, he’s really old. You need to cut him some slack.
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August 11, 2011 at 5:36 pm
Chuck’s right.
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August 10, 2011 at 4:33 pm
See, I find that most people, period, are not willing to break out of their apathy and do anything about anything, even if it is an issue they strongly support or strongly are against. It’s the nature of the beast. There are many organizations out there, religious and non religious, non profits and for profits, that do something about the ills of the world. Pro choicers don’t have the market cornered on helping, and pro lifers don’t sit around refusing to do anything. Such broad sweeping categorization is non productive and useless. And I have no idea what you mean here: “they intend– and usually do– raise to adulthood every “unborn human” they want “rescued,” something the vast, vast majority of so-called “pro-lifers” absolutely refuse to do.” I have never found a shred of documentation to support either part of that statement.
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August 11, 2011 at 8:20 am
That’s just Chuckles, NY. If you try to understand what he says, you’ll find yourself in quicksand. He will repeat the same inane pro-killing arguments endlessly until you feel yourself sinking out of sight. He’ll say things like, “we’re not killing people, we’re killing humanoids,” and in the next breath, “we can kill those people because Dunkle is sick.”
Yup, that’s what he’ll say, endlessly.
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August 10, 2011 at 4:06 pm
NunYa asks above, “Are pro lifers the only ones responsible for meeting the needs of already born children languishing in the system?”
Since the self-proclaimed “pro-lifers” are the ones who insist that people have babies, it is entirely reasonable to ask them to care for them. As a low-income single parent, I took care of a child all by myself, and I know that they can do the same. As one of eleven kids, I know how many more they can raise than they think.
The demand is actually a litmus test to see if there are any who walk the walk after they’ve talked the talk. I’ve found in general that the closer life gets, the less sacred it becomes. You’ve seen Deanna, forceful self-proclaimed “pro-lifer” fly off the handle after being asked the umpteenth time when she is going to adopt her seventh kid. Life isn’t that sacred that she’s going to do it tomorrow.
And you are absolutely right when you say WE SHOULD ALL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THEM. But when I try point that out to that crowd, they always respond by saying, “So, which ones do you think should be killed?”
If you’ve checked out the aborticentrism website, you’ll see how that question reveals a death-focused philosophy which explains why their concern for human life stops so completely and thoroughly at the delivery room door. It’s a dysfunctional self-help movement meant to make them feel better about something. Check it out.
I won’t go into detail, but after raising my kid I had all these fathering talents that were going to rot, and I was curious as to whether I could do better than the first time around. 28 years of 600 hours one-on-one and 8% of my gross annual income later, I hung up that bullwhip, so to speak.
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August 10, 2011 at 4:25 pm
“after raising my kid I had all these fathering talents that were going to rot”
Since d’s gone, we have no prolife perusers for Chuck’s stuff. All I can do is sift, but then something like the above catches my eye. And I remember what Chuck said when I did peruse him: he said his kid has no use for him. Being Chuck, of course he blames his kid, just as he blames his father for that bad relationship. But I think the blame belongs to those “fathering talents” he seems so proud of. Lack of self-awareness is sometimes incredible.
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August 10, 2011 at 4:49 pm
I’m sorry aborticentrism, I don’t have time to check out your site. My life will settle down in a few months and maybe I can then. I am busy with my children, grandchildren, and buying a house. I am not busy with adopting children, picketing or saving babies in any way right now. I am the status quo. I believe the ills of the world are because people, as a whole, don’t do enough, are selfish and self centered and minding their own lives rather than doing something for someone else. As a whole. There are plenty of individuals and groups of all ilks doing a LOT. But the majority of the world is not. I care about the homeless. I give a $20 or whatever I have on me when approached. Do I work tirelessly to end their plight? No. I don’t think any of you are beating down the doors of adoption agencies either, from what I’ve read. As I told my daughter when she was a teen: there are consequences to sex, and one of them is a baby. Be careful. People know what causes pregnancy, and they need to take responsibility for their actions. Yes, I am for birth control for the masses, I am MORE for self control for the masses. And I’m not talking about cases of rape or life of the mother, which are a minority of the abortions done. I’m not talking about failed birth control. But c’mon, the majority of abortions cannot possibly be all done by responsible women who were trying their best not to get pregnant and their birth control failed? Or rape victims? Or women in danger of death if the pregnancy continues? Education. Education. Education.
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August 11, 2011 at 5:34 am
Translation:
I’m super busy but not too busy to drop in for massive buzz kill commenting.
Contradictory much?
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August 11, 2011 at 8:22 am
Nope, stupid more?
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August 11, 2011 at 10:29 pm
So Kate, you don’t want conversation, you don’t want sharing of ideas even if they differ from your own, you don’t want honesty. You just want to gnash your teeth? I was not saying I am “super busy”, I was saying I am the status quo.I was admitting I’m doing nothing more than minding my own life and not making a difference. I am a woman. I choose to be pro life. I have seen your “Trust Women” icon. I have heard your let women decide for themselves speech. Hypocritical much?
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August 11, 2011 at 6:03 am
No, NunYa, you’re not going to check it out, period. When you can’t even bother to think through the statement that real pro-lifers raise to adulthood every child they want “rescued,” and why that describes (misnamed) “pro-choicers” to a T, it’s a sign your mind’s made up, shut, closed, sealed, immured. I have a sign over my desk that says, “THIMK.” Would you like a copy?
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August 11, 2011 at 8:27 am
“No, NunYa, you’re not going to check it out, period.” Don’t fall for this, NY. I went to Chuck’s site, once. It is pages and pages of the same incomprehensible killing promotion he delivers here. Quicksand.
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August 11, 2011 at 10:36 pm
Well well well, we have a mind reader in our midst. Or are you a predictor of the future? I did think through the statement. What makes you think I didn’t? I am not aware of any movements by pro choicers to “rescue” children. The way it’s worded didn’t make sense to me. And I did intend to go to your blog. You’re just rude.
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August 12, 2011 at 9:43 am
NunYa,
What do you think about Dunkle’s position on worshipping Convicted Murderers?
Or Dunkle burning American Flags to represent the Martyrdom of convicted murderers?
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