I really need some help sorting this one out folks. I am writing this directly to the pro-lifers who read this blog. I really need to get your angle on something…
So, if you are pro-life you think abortion should be illegal, right? You generally think – although there are differences of opinions within your movement – that the doctor should go to the jail and some of you think that the woman (because she basically created the need for the doctor) should go to jail as well. You don’t want to see any more abortion clinics because they are complicit in the killing of babies or pre-born babies or the unborn or whatever you wish to call it. Am I correct so far?
But now, here comes the ole Commonwealth of Virginia where pro-life forces have successfully persuaded the state Board of Health to issue regulations that will govern how abortion clinics are run. Pro-lifers say they want to make the abortion process safer for the women because there are so many sleaze balls out there performing abortions.
Okay, folks, what am I missing here?
A woman going into an abortion clinic is usually going in for one reason – to abort their fetus, their baby, their child, their – well, you pick title. And the pro-lifers don’t like. Indeed, they will spend hours and hours standing in front of an abortion clinic, screaming and yelling at women in an effort to persuade them to cancel their appointment. Some will go further and threaten the doctors and their staff in the hopes that they will stop performing this pernicious act. Some will burn down the clinic. Oh, yeah, and some will actually get a gun or two and kill the doctor and/or their staff to make the point.
But now – wait a second! Now these same folks want to guarantee that the abortion is performed in a safer environment. Suddenly, the pro-lifers are now very concerned that a woman might be injured while she is “killing her baby.” Now, they seem concerned that if there is an emergency the hallways need to be wide enough to get the gurney out to the waiting ambulance. They now want to make sure that the air conditioning is at a proper setting, so the woman will be comfortable while she terminates her pregnancy. In South Carolina, where they promulgated regulations several years ago, they were so concerned about making abortion such a pleasant experience that they required the clinic to regularly mow their lawn and to rid the property of all kinds of critters. In Kansas, pro-lifers want to make sure that the woman’s personal belongings are safe so they required clinics to have a locker for each patient. Damn the cost, they shouted! Women should feel mentally comfortable when they are aborting. Then, tossing a bone to the Custodial Engineer’s Association of America, they threw in a requirement that a janitor’s closet be at least 50 square feet, enough room to hang out and watch television. Bravo to the pro-life movement! Is there no end to their compassion?
The new temporary regulations in Virginia will be formally voted on Sept. 15 by the state Board of Health and could go into effect by Dec. 31. Clinics that provide five or more abortions per month will then be classified as hospitals. Supporters of the restrictions say with a straight face that their only aim is to protect women. They assure us that they do not seek to make the regulations so onerous that it will force many of them to shut their doors. Oh, sure, they’ll still shout that women are “murdering babies” inside that facility, but they still want to make sure that everything is nice and clean in there.
Can anyone help me out here? I’m just a little confused….


August 29, 2011 at 2:48 pm
That is an excellent question that deserves and honest answer. Contrary to popular pro-choice propaganda most pro-lifers do care about the women. We hate to see sleazy doctors get away with some of the stuff they get away with. Abortion clinics being largely unregulated has led to some pretty bad horror stories and it angers us that they get away with it under the guise of “reproductive freedom.” (Think Gosnell) They should be held to the same standard as any other surgical center and for good reason. Some of those places are rat holes. We don’t want those women to get infections, die, etc. The fact that they are aborting their baby does not change fact the fact that we care about them as people. Shock of all shocks! Kate probably just had a heart attack.
With that said, I am sure that there is also some underlying element of wanting the clinics to close (I know I personally feel that way) but if women are dying because a paramedic can’t get back to them because the hallway is too narrow or too full of stored supplies then they deserve to be shut down. This is a legitimate problem. The clinics shutting because they either can’t afford to fix the issues or just don’t want to bother because it cuts into their profits too much is a nice side benefit for us.
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August 29, 2011 at 4:42 pm
I speak for the Almighty, our Dearest Lord and Savior.
Those who are willing to blaspheme the true word of myself should take a strong notice to the fact that God speaks through me to you.
If you continue your indigence to the word Almighty, obvious, and true word of God, you shall find out soon enough, where and why you went astray. You shall find out where you will spend the rest of time – below, in the bowels of eternal hell and damnation.
What do you think we should do with all the Priests and their homosexual Pedophilia, and all the Priests that helped cover it up, and all the people that were associates by supporting the Mills of Catholicism that directly perpetuated the Pedophilia of the Catholic Church?
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August 29, 2011 at 5:27 pm
The Catholic Church should be shut down for crimes against humanity.
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August 30, 2011 at 6:42 am
Gloria,
Let’s shut down the whole world for crimes it commits.
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August 30, 2011 at 4:47 pm
Good idea.
Let’s start with the most heinous of institutions and work our way down.
Catholics have been amongst the most murderous cults known to humanity. Let’s shut that down first. Do you sgree?
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August 30, 2011 at 7:12 pm
I agree. The Catholic cult has got to go. They are hands down the most heinous of cults.
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August 31, 2011 at 9:40 am
Not the whole world. Just the minority of Catholics that have committed crimes against humanity for centuries.
The Catholics, I agree, are one of the worst cults on Earth!
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August 31, 2011 at 5:46 pm
The Badhia Sahalamists, I maintain, are one of the worst cults on Earth!
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August 29, 2011 at 6:06 pm
Oh shut up already!
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August 29, 2011 at 7:01 pm
hahaha
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August 29, 2011 at 7:55 pm
How is that a legitimate reply to the crimes of priests?
You write without any genuine objectivity – you lose all credibilility!
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August 29, 2011 at 8:50 pm
I replied to Pats article in an honest way and someone starts babbling about what is wrong with Catholics. Catholics have nothing to do with the question that was asked in the article. Also, this person claims they speak for God. It’s annoying so I told them to shut up and I would do it again.
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August 30, 2011 at 7:31 am
Thanks, Voice, at least you stay on the subject….
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August 30, 2011 at 4:54 pm
The problem is that Catholic Church is an integral part of the major problem.
-No Birth Control
-Rhythm method (worthless by modern randomized studies)
-No Morning After Pill
-Teaching abstinence a proven ineffective way to prevent unwanted pregnancies.
-A Paternal system designed for the subjugation of women since inception.
-Endless lies, pedophilia, crimes against humanity, the witch burnings, inquisition, the house arrest of Galileo. There is no end to their crimes against humanity. It should be just shut down, Catholicism is such a shameful flawed institution of hatred.
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August 31, 2011 at 4:15 am
You, G, (worthless by modern randomized studies) should shut up; you are such a shameful flawed person of hatred.
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August 31, 2011 at 9:47 am
For those of you who have not been victims of the pedophilia perpetrated by priests, I would have less venom and anger to those who have been victims multiple times.
It is a massive problem, that Catholics, as they reveal here still like to try and cover up the endless Catholic Crimes that take place in the Catholic Mills.
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August 30, 2011 at 6:25 pm
She has no credibility, is a mouthpiece without any brains to back it up.
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August 31, 2011 at 4:16 am
I was hard enough on G, W, you don’t have to pile it on!
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August 31, 2011 at 9:51 am
Dunkle just because you are old, powerless and decrepit, no one here is going to believe your pathetic attempts at authority. You are someone I laugh at.
Were you raped by priests? Is that why you are so passive aggressive on the issue?
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August 31, 2011 at 12:28 pm
Bad, where’d you come from.
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August 30, 2011 at 6:24 pm
Voice does not appear to like hearing the truth. She has not retort at all except telling one to shut up.
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August 30, 2011 at 7:13 pm
You like to write shut up. . . why?
You cannot come up with an intelligent response?
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August 31, 2011 at 4:18 am
“You cannot come up with an intelligent response?” Not to the drivel you AIs offer. W, T, shut up!
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August 31, 2011 at 9:53 am
Pro lifers do not have much to say except shut up.
They just are not smart enough to come up with reasonable discussions as they try and pass laws to control your body!
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August 31, 2011 at 12:29 pm
You still here? I thought I told you to go away.
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August 29, 2011 at 5:24 pm
Abortion.com Facebook page is right again it appears.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Abortioncom/114710445267687
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August 29, 2011 at 7:57 pm
Just read it and joined the group, thanks for the link!
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August 30, 2011 at 4:55 pm
I joined as well, it is amazing!!!
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August 30, 2011 at 7:14 pm
I joined the Abortion.com FB page. The most intelligent page on FB regrading Abortion!
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August 31, 2011 at 10:00 am
Tx, I joined as well.
It is nice to feel solidarity with intelligent people.
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August 31, 2011 at 3:35 pm
no solidarity there if they accepted you
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August 30, 2011 at 7:30 am
Voice, thanks for the response as always. How do you know that clinics are “unregulated?” Now dont tell me about Gosnell. He was, as I understand it, violating those standards and regulations and fortunately he got caught. But the average well run clinic..are they all unregulated? Have you ever been inside a clinic or at least talked to a clinic owner about the regs they have to comply with on a local, state and federal level? Or are we just painting with a broad brush, as if I said that all pro-lifers want to kill abortion doctors?
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August 30, 2011 at 10:47 am
All aren’t unregulated but a lot are.You know this, state and local rules vary widely with some barely being regulated at all (the regulations bay be there, just not enforced).
Here is a quote from Debbie Puryear-Tainer, Department of Health Office of Customer Service, Health Systems Quality Assurance, Washington State.
“We do not license or regulate abortion clinics in Washington State.
However, we do license and regulate the providers who practice in
abortion clinics. These clinics do not have any safety or cleanliness
standards, because the clinic itself is not regulated.”
“If you have a complaint or concern about a provider, you can file a If you have a complaint or concern about a provider, you can file a
complaint on our web site.” The Savvy citizen
By the way, The Virginia bill was passed by the pro-choice democratic led congress in that state according to the Washington Post. A republican broke a 20-20 tie to cause it to pass. So it wasn’t just the pro-lifers, the Dems were pushing it as well.
Maryland, Oklahoma and Pennsylvania are pushing for laws that would hold abortion clinics to the same standards as ambulatory surgery centers. Since that is precisely what they are why wouldn’t they be regulated as such and why in the world do pro-choicers fight the regulations? You would think that they would want the women to be kept safe as well. Here is a direct quote from the Pennsylvania bill.
” (h) Abortion facilities.–The department shall apply the
same fire and safety standards; personnel and equipment
requirements; and quality assurance procedures to abortion
facilities that are presently applied to comprehensive
freestanding ambulatory surgical facilities.”
Immediately PP and the ACLU started complaining about it saying it would put abortion clinics out of business. Well, yes, but if the requirement is that since they are doing outpatient surgeries they should act like it, be regulated like it, clean up and have emergency precautions in place then who would complain about that? The abortion industry is the only surgical industry that argues that they shouldn’t have to follow state rules in order to do surgeries. It’s just stupid. Pro-choicers complain about the fact that legislators want abortion clinics regulated but then insist that crisis Pregnancy Centers be regulated. Absolutely ridiculous!
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August 30, 2011 at 7:16 pm
Voice does not know squat. She talks as if she knew something, but only spiddle comes from her mind to the keyboard. Let’s hear some real writing from that keyboard Voice. I challenge you to something intelligent.
At least you will be taken out of the moron category!
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August 31, 2011 at 4:24 am
Todd does not know squat. He talks as if he knew something, but only spittle comes from his mind to the keyboard. Let’s see some real writing from that keyboard, Todd. I challenge you to say something intelligent.
At least you will be taken out of the moron category!
(There, got through it and only had to fix four things. I’ve seen worse.)
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August 31, 2011 at 10:05 am
Typical ProLifer.
Like an eight year old, plays a game of repeating, instead of offering intelligent comments.
Except for the fact that it reveals consistently the pro life mental incapacity –
I vote (whoever is in charge) you ban this wasteful behavior from this otherwise fabulous blog!
The posts are fantastic and many of my friends have subscribed.
Tx!
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August 31, 2011 at 12:33 pm
” . . . ban this wasteful behavior from this otherwise fabulous blog! I’m the one who makes it fabulous, dupes.
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September 3, 2011 at 2:09 pm
Todd, Voice’s comment was mostly quotes from verified professional sources. I would think hard, if I were you, before calling anyone a moron. Also, a question for you: why can you name-call, but she can’t say shut up? Is there a double standard here Todd? Both are rude, although I do agree that blasting Catholocism was totally off point.
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August 31, 2011 at 5:37 am
I was the Director/Owner of an abortion clinic in SC for over 20 yrs. When the regulations for SC were being formulated…we were involved in some of the hearings in the beginning…but when a PCC that was
run by a “church group” back in the 80’s has more power over the regs (of a medical facility) than the physician’s and medical staff that ran it…there was something wrong with the picture!! At that time in the history in SC ambulatory surgical centers had LESS regulations than what SC purposed for an abortion clinic!! We were NEVER against “fair..medically necessary” regs!! But we wanted to know why…a plastic surgeon..could do surgical procedures in their office…without any regulations from the state…(also they put pt’s to sleep…which at that time clinic’s were not using general)!! If the state is worried abt “patient safety” then do it across the board…otherrwise…it is quite a blatant…”witch hunt”!!! GYN doctors in their offices were doing many procedures that were equally as “dangerous”?? as an abortion…but there were NO state regs!! So
there was/is a “witch hunt” going on across this nation…against a medically necessary surgical procedure!! {yes! medically necessary..to you the “anti-choicer” maybe NOT but believe me to the woman that is pregnant..an needing an abortion…for whatever the reason!!! It is medically necessary!!} Believe me the grass around
the clinic being trimmed to a certain height….and specifically needing to be treated for “fire ants” only helps one
individual(s) in the issue and it is NOT the woman undergoing the procedure BUT it is of great comfort to the individual(s) yelling and screaming…and calling her names..and threatening her NOT to have an abortion!!!!!
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August 31, 2011 at 10:12 am
Pro life lawyers should not be micro managing anyone’s body, let alone an important medical procedure.
If Catholics had their way they would get rid of Birth Control. Real geniuses – not.
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August 31, 2011 at 12:35 pm
Catholics advocate birth control, but I bet you’re talking about masturbation, right Bad?
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August 31, 2011 at 5:09 pm
John * What are you saying, I don’t understand you?
I am Catholic, I spoke to our priest and he said No Birth Control. I really wanted some, I feel like I am too young to get pregnant right now. But I do not want to sin and use Birth Control if God does not want me to.
My priest, he is very nice, also said my husband and I shouldn’t be having sex unless we want children. That is what sex is for. He did not mention masturbation.
We could use the Rhythm method though. God would bless us with children when God felt we were ready.
Will you help me understand what you are talking about?
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August 31, 2011 at 5:45 pm
Carla, abstinence fails 85% of the time. Besides, marriage isn’t for abstinence anyway, right? If you believe men are God’s messengers on Earth, then listen to your priest, who became, as St. Augustine put it, a “eunuch for the Kingdom of Heaven.” I recommend you talk to twenty Catholic American women who have fewer than four children (above four, it’s not parenting anymore, it’s crowd control for most moms). They will tell you stuff the representative of a patriarchal theocracy won’t even hint about.
My parents would highly recommend the rhythm method! They used it, and it only failed my mom 11 times in 16 years!!!
She wasn’t stupid; she was merely being a good Catholic. She used to say that for my dad, being the father of 11 kids was the best 55 seconds of his life. She got a little fame out of her 99 months in a maternity smock. Her book was, They Do It in Church.
Those women will tell you that you don’t have to be stupid. They will say it in a very nice, indirect way.
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August 31, 2011 at 6:04 pm
I was going to ask you to be briefer and clearer, Car, but then Chuck jumped in, and, relatively, your stuff is now clear as crystal.
So, your priest is right. You should not engage in sexual intercourse unless you will accept the children who sometimes result from sexual intercourse.
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August 30, 2011 at 4:36 pm
voice, abortions done under proper medical care are safer than pregnancy. If you really care about those women, why not pledge $180,000 to one of them to relieve her of her worries about doing right by her incipient child? That sum would pay for its nurture through high school. You gonna pony up the dough? Why not?
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August 30, 2011 at 4:59 pm
Responsible,
you are so right.
But these moron pro lifers can not admit it. Their Egos are too great.
They are indoctrinated so early in life in general. Like robots, their brains are not real, they just regurgitate what they hear over and over again . . . Even that Satan spawn Dunkle just hides in his turtle shell and corrects grammar when he can’t think of anything to say. What an illiterate that guy is!
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August 30, 2011 at 6:01 pm
I thought he was an English teacher, he can’t be illiterate.
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August 30, 2011 at 6:06 pm
Responsible, you are so wrong.
But this moron “Gloria” can not admit it. Her ego is too great. She was indoctrinated so early in life in general. Like a robot, her brain is not real, She just regurgitates what she hears over and over again . . . Even that Satan spawn Dunkle just hides in his turtle shell and corrects grammar when he can’t think of anything to say. What an illiterate that guy is! (The only thing worst than being talked about is not being talked about.)
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August 31, 2011 at 10:15 am
See Voice, again JD cannot answer or support what he beliefs. In that regard he is illiterate. If he was an English teacher, I feel bad for anyone that was exposed that poor quality of mentation.
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August 31, 2011 at 12:38 pm
I might have been able to help you, Bad, to avoid writing like this: “I feel bad for anyone that was exposed that poor quality of mentation.”
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September 3, 2011 at 2:25 pm
You know Gloria, after hearing this for the umpteenth time here, I have two questions burning in me.
1. Why does Pat never call out anyone on his “side” for using that old broad paintbrush that you just used?
2. You just called me a moron and you’ve never met me. I assume you can back up your charge against me, so I invite you to ask me anything you want concerning abortion, and/or go back through my comments and post anything you find that supports your claim that I’m a moron.
Oops, #2 isn’t a question, but a series of statements. I hope I’m not really a moron.
Crap! It wasn’t even a series of statements, but only two. I guess I am a borderline moron.
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August 30, 2011 at 7:18 pm
Now check out this Responsible person.
Intelligent.
Knows what he is talking about.
Pro Lifers are so lame compared to the magnitude of this guys powerful writings, decimating the drool of MRSA+ saliva dripping from the mouths of pro lifers.
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August 31, 2011 at 4:27 am
T, how does one decimate drool?
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August 31, 2011 at 10:17 am
You produce it, you tell us.
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August 31, 2011 at 12:39 pm
You’re getting tiresome, Bad. Time to leave.
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September 3, 2011 at 9:32 pm
So you are saying that if they had enough money, they wouldn’t raise their unwanted baby to be a serial killer Chuck?
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August 29, 2011 at 5:08 pm
Hmmmmmm. This argues for CPC’s to be operated under the same rubrics governing ob/gyn practices (including abortion, unfortunately) or losing any state or federal funding if they don’t have professionally trained and licensed staff.
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August 29, 2011 at 6:01 pm
Pregnancy centers disgust me.
Their heinous lies, and propaganda ar a hellish blemish on the voice of true ChristiNs everywhere.
No real Christian would defend these bastions of Satanism.
I am Pro Life, I am against abortion – but still – women are smart enough – we do not have to lie to them. Jesus did not do that. I want to emulate the life, hard work, and ultimate sacrifice of our saviour.
The Pathetic individuals on these pages pretending to be pro life do not emulate the life and teachings of our dearest Lord, the Son of God, Jesus Christ, almighty, son of god.
Shame on you – fake Christians. The dear Lord will condemn you for your heinous sins against the mighty word of God!
Please stop the games and portraying the false teachings of Jesus Christ, King of the Universe!
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August 30, 2011 at 4:28 am
Pathetic individuals on these pages like Paul pretending to be pro life do not emulate the life and teachings of our dearest Lord, the Son of God, Jesus Christ, Almighty, Son of God.
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August 30, 2011 at 5:02 pm
You Christians think you have the monopoly on truth in the arena of God. You have no respect for people that worship other Gods.
Christians are a tiny minority in this world of ours.
Christians are among the psychologically most ill, and most unhealthy people on earth.
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August 30, 2011 at 5:24 pm
Salim, everybody needs something to make it through the day.
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August 30, 2011 at 6:08 pm
Sal, there are no other Gods, there are only other gods.
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August 31, 2011 at 5:12 pm
?????????????
FB said there was a bizarre trickster on this Blog. JD must be the one.
JD do you really think you have the monopoly on religion?
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August 31, 2011 at 6:30 pm
yes
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September 5, 2011 at 11:35 am
And, Tracy, I like “bizarre trickster.” I’ll let you say something else. Go ahead.
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August 30, 2011 at 7:25 pm
CPC are disgusting.
The only thing more disgusting is a peice of old retard flesh like a Dumbkle.
Let’s see if he can say anything worthwhile . . .
All he does is repeat back what has already been written, lies, corrects grammar as if he were an academic of any value. He will die soon of Natural causes, and then he can plot with Satan. This guy doesn’t do squat except try and make himself a hero to pro life fanatics. He could not even be a hero to a piece of excrement in my opinion. I doubt the fanatic uses toilet paper. Don’t shake his hand, but if you have to look at his nails first. I would love his wife to post and see what she thinks of her psycho husband. Poor kind women, to end being married to a maniac.
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August 31, 2011 at 5:01 am
Dumbkle, cute.
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August 31, 2011 at 3:59 pm
Todd,
The verbage you used could only come from the mouth of a person is who not pro-life. Glad you are on the their side.
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August 31, 2011 at 5:28 pm
Kathleen,
I dislike people that burn the American Flag to honor and martyr convicted murderers.
Kathleen, do you favor people like that? or do you find them repulsive as I do?
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August 31, 2011 at 6:32 pm
“people that burn” — try people who burn
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September 3, 2011 at 9:45 pm
Way to deflect Kathleen’s rebuke Todd.
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September 3, 2011 at 9:43 pm
Paul, I used to work in a CPC, and we didn’t lie or even stretch the truth. We didn’t badger women. We gave them facts and options. But honestly, if you think Jesus is upset because someone lies to save a life, you are severely mistaken about him. Would he also be upset if an intruder broke into your home and demanded to know if anyone else was home, and you said no, to protect your sleeping children upstairs? I don’t condone lying, I don’t do it, and I believe that the issue of the sanctity of life can stand on it’s own without help from us. But I do take issue with you putting words in Jesus mouth. It is not a “sin” when your motive is to save a life. Jesus looks on the motives of the heart. Sarah was not held accountable by God when in a moment of weakness and fear Abraham made her lie to Pharaoh, Abraham was. Besides, you have not met all workers in CPC’s. So you can’t call them all sinners and “bastions of satanism” with any credibility. Jesus was big on not judging. He came to save us, not beat us over the head with the bible.
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August 30, 2011 at 7:33 am
But, Charles, these proposed regs only deal with “doctors offices.” we couldn’t argue that CPC’s fall into that category, could we?
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August 30, 2011 at 4:39 pm
Well, Pat, with people like voice declaring that self-proclaimed “pro-lifers” care for women, certainly they will find common ground with the misnamed “pro-choice” crowd and insist on equal standards of sanitation, training and regulation.
Just don’t let the door hit you in the face as the dysfunctional twelve-step program crowd come barreling in to join forces with you….
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August 30, 2011 at 5:04 pm
Some CPCs have medical Directors. They need to be held accountable for the misinformation and lies they give to patients.
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August 30, 2011 at 5:26 pm
So, propose UNIVERSAL regs, Pat! The trouble is, the so-called “pro-choice” side doesn’t have the anger-fueled zeal that the dysfunctional twelve-step program encourages in the self-proclaimed “pro-lifers.”
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September 3, 2011 at 9:46 pm
No, but you do Chuck.
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August 29, 2011 at 6:21 pm
So, if you are pro-life you think abortion should be illegal, right? You generally think – although there are differences of opinions within your movement – that the doctor should go to the jail and some of you think that the woman (because she basically created the need for the doctor) should go to jail as well. You don’t want to see any more abortion clinics because they are complicit in the killing of babies or pre-born babies or the unborn or whatever you wish to call it. Am I correct so far?
* * * * * * * * * *
You are right that we feel abortion should be illegal as it is a heinous murder of the pre-born (and it sure beats the pro-choice mantra of safe, legal and rare because let’s face it you really don’t want it to be rare now do you?) However, I would not wish to see the doctor, his staff or the the victim woman go to jail. I would rather see them all repent and receive God’s mercy and love.
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August 29, 2011 at 6:34 pm
I don’t want to see them (the doctors) go to jail either but if abortion is illegal and they continue to do them then they should go. No question about it. It will probably never be illegal thanks to Roe V Wade. But perhaps it can be strangled to death with local and state regulations. If only!
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August 29, 2011 at 8:03 pm
What about about a tubal pregnancy? When the women’s life is in danger, is abortion OK then?
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August 29, 2011 at 8:52 pm
You know the answer to that question. It has been asked and answered a million times.
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August 30, 2011 at 4:30 am
Give Paul some slack, v, he’s pathetic.
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August 30, 2011 at 7:36 am
Harsh, John, harsh. But, yes, we’ve been through that drill before haven’t we? Geez folks stick to the subject!
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August 31, 2011 at 5:00 am
(I’m sure I used “pathetic” because Paul used it first, but I cannot find that now.)
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August 31, 2011 at 5:30 pm
Well voice, sounds like you think abortion is OK sometimes then.
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September 3, 2011 at 2:49 pm
You got THAT from THIS:
“You know the answer to that question. It has been asked and answered a million times.”
Wow.
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September 3, 2011 at 7:21 pm
It’s called pro-choice insanity. You say one thing and they create a whole new scenario in their minds and then spout that out as if it has anything to do with reality. I am convinced that they don’t even read what we write.
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August 30, 2011 at 7:36 am
Ah, but Voice, should the woman go to jail as well? After all, if it is illegal and she still wants to get one and she finds a doc or a neighbor willing to do it, should she not go to jail because she instigated the action?
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August 30, 2011 at 8:40 am
Remember my saying this, Pat: “When baby killing becomes illegal again, the number of babies killed will be reduced from more than a million to fewer than ten thousand. However, ten thousand is still too many to put into our already overcrowded jails. So, I think a good whipping would be better than incarceration”?
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August 30, 2011 at 8:42 am
And, oh, the former doc or neighbor should be executed.
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August 30, 2011 at 11:31 am
Dunkle,
You think a good whipping is seriously a fair punishment for murder?
Or are you joking?
Why shouldn’t the be tried for murder just like any other murder?
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August 30, 2011 at 3:25 pm
For one thing, a woman who kills out of desperation is less guilty than a guy who kills for money. However, a few years in the slammer might be more effective than a whipping. Those things will have to be worked out.
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August 30, 2011 at 10:56 am
Honestly that would be a wrestle for me. The hard line law abiding part of me would say if you break the law you pay the price but then if I think about the reality of it I would have to say no because a lot of the time they are either forced, coerced, emotionally distraught, too young to have good sense, unstable, on drugs, etc. so their thinking abilities are impaired. Also, a person would have to think about the far reaching implications of doing that. No, I think that sending the actual killers away for a very long time would take care of the problem. But it’s a mute question because it will never be illegal on a national level short of a constitutional amendment.
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August 30, 2011 at 11:35 am
Again, same reply. Murder should be treated as such.
Most women choose to murder their babies. They are not forced or cohersed. That is complete BS. The mother should be held accountable for their crime. How could you lose all you integrity on that point?
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August 30, 2011 at 12:05 pm
It’s not about loosing integrity. It’s about being a realist. Where would they put these thousand upon thousands of women? Who would take care of their children? How would judges be able to tell which ones were forced, which ones were emotionally abused into it, etc? The very sad reality is that some of these women are in abusive relationships and or have abusive parents and are literally forced into the clinics at threat of beatings. Some are simply not emotionally or physically strong enough to fight back. To think that they would tell a judge that they were forced is unrealistic. I just think you would run the risk of hurting women that are already abused into it. How would anyone know the truth? What about the woman who’s husband is terribly abusive and if she were to ever tell that he did anything to her she would likely die. If he forced her to have an abortion she would do it because she is terrified for her life. If she were to be arrested then she would never stand up to him, not even a the risk of going to prison herself. She is literally owned by this man. What would you do to her? or to the teen in the same situation with an abusive parent? As I said, it is a wrestle but these cases are more common than most would like to believe and we have to have real legitimate answers to some very complicated dilemmas. There are plenty who have abortion for their own sake with no force at all but how would you know which was which?
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August 31, 2011 at 5:35 pm
Voice,
address your Pro Life buddies like Dunkle that would execute women that did their own medical abortions or place thousands in Jail every single year.
The Pro Lifers are the maniacs that want to incarcerate women.
World wide the problem is even exponentially more massive than the numbers that the Pro Life maniacs speak of here on this website.
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August 31, 2011 at 7:01 pm
Paulie, take off a year and learn to read. Then come back. I like you.
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September 3, 2011 at 3:02 pm
Pierce, unless you have worked with these abused women, as I have in Women’s Crises Centers, you don’t understand that there are abused, coerced, uneducated and fragile women out there who need compassion, not jail. Even of the women who are seemingly hard and uncaring, or using it as birth control, they have the same void in their souls we all are born with, they need a savior. The whole point of Jesus sacrifice for us was that we need it! I find compassion for even the Charles Mansons of the world if I dig deep enough. But we have the law for a reason, and it should be obeyed, but with JUSTICE, allowing for mercy, not always the letter only.
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September 3, 2011 at 3:07 pm
And Paul, you completely ignored what voice said just resorted to name calling again.
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August 29, 2011 at 6:52 pm
“You are right that we feel abortion should be illegal as it is a heinous murder of the pre-born”
False. Murder is illegal. Murder is a legal term that means the killing of a human being by a sane person, with intent, malice aforethought and with no legal excuse or authority. Since women don’t intentionally become pregnant with intent to abort AND abortion is legal your claim is bunk.
“and it sure beats the pro-choice mantra of safe, legal and rare because let’s face it you really don’t want it to be rare now do you?”
Personally, I don’t care how rare it is like I don’t care how rare heart surgery is.
“However, I would not wish to see the doctor, his staff or the the victim woman go to jail.”
We’re not victims. Nice try.
“I would rather see them all repent and receive God’s mercy and love.”
We don’t live in a theocracy so it doesn’t matter what you want.
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August 29, 2011 at 6:59 pm
It may not technically be murder but it is definitely homicide. Homicide is defined as being when one human being kills another.
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August 29, 2011 at 8:05 pm
Abortion is legal, what are you talking about?
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August 29, 2011 at 8:59 pm
Homicide is not necessarily illegal. It is simply defined as one human killing another.
Webster’s Dictionary
ho·mi·cide noun \ˈhä-mə-ˌsīd, ˈhō-\
Definition of HOMICIDE
1
: a person who kills another
2
: a killing of one human being by another
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August 30, 2011 at 4:41 pm
Ah, but a fetus is only POTENTIALLY a human being! So it’s not homicide….
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August 30, 2011 at 5:52 pm
A fetus is only a “potential” human being to those who want to justify the killing of it. The rest of us know full well that it is a human being. It’s human, science proves that and it’s a “being’. What else do you want? It is homicide!
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August 30, 2011 at 6:12 pm
Moreover, Chuckles himself is only POTENTIALLY a human being.
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August 30, 2011 at 7:29 pm
Paul,
So was slavery legal, did that make it right?
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August 31, 2011 at 5:37 pm
Kathleen,
all the infanticide and murder that God commands in the bible was under his command. Did that make it right?
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September 1, 2011 at 3:10 am
Why doesn’t any Christian answer about all the infanticide God orders in the Bible?
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September 1, 2011 at 4:56 am
Been answered, as usual, but Al, you Muslim? What do you think of my two signs I display on the front and back of my truck when I park it in front of Planned Parenthood: WHY DO CATHOLICS AND JEWS, BUT NOT MUSLIMS, KILL THEIR CHILDREN?
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September 1, 2011 at 7:19 am
Please answer question.
Any Christian, just not the craziest one.
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September 2, 2011 at 8:05 am
All right, I’ll repeat: In one sense God is responsible for everything, even for the fact that I’m smart, Al, and you’re dumb, because he created everything. But some of his creation he made into the image and likeness of himself. Therefore, he gave them the power to do what they wanted, also. In other words he gave them free will. Therefore, that infanticide in the Bible that has you so upset was caused by people using their free will to do something evil. Look at it this way, you’re using your free will to encourage feticide which is so much worse than infanticide. Sure, God is letting you do that, but you can’t blame him for what you do, can you?
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August 29, 2011 at 8:22 pm
Voice of no reason . . .
You never seem to answer any questions, and end up being the laughing post on FaceBook. Yet you seem smart enough not to dodge and evade questions.
Why not just answer them?
Like a complete anencephalic. Should a women be able to choose abortion in this circumstance, or would you force her to risk her life for a pregnancy without a brain, one that will never grow a brain.
Is abortion OK then?
ProLifers continuously dodge questions like this, when the answer is so simple . . .
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August 29, 2011 at 8:56 pm
That question has been asked and answered as well. I’m not playing the exception game.
Why would you think I care what the people on Facebook think of me? They obviously have issues thinking right since they believe it moral to kill a baby so why do I care what they think?
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August 30, 2011 at 4:49 am
“. . . the answer is so simple . . .” It is simple for the simple-minded, Geisha Girl, and several of us have explained it for others. But just because I don’t want you to go away stupid, I’m going to tell you again what one of us said: “You may not intentionally kill someone. Try your best to nurture her through birth and beyond. If that action, even foresee-ably, will result in her death anyway, it’s licit (Basic rule: we can not intend what we nonetheless foresee). But your motives must be pure.”
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September 3, 2011 at 3:17 pm
My answer is to leave it up to God, or god, or Mother Nature, whatever you believe in. I am NOT willingly going down that road of the state deciding who lives or dies based on their worth to society, need for care, disability, etc, and that IS where this thinking leads. As I’ve said before, oh hell no!
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August 30, 2011 at 7:39 am
So, Voice, our soldiers in Afghanistan are committing homicide? When the state executes a prisoner, the state is committing homicide?
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August 30, 2011 at 10:58 am
Technically that would be justifiable homicide. Elective abortion is not justifiable.
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August 30, 2011 at 4:42 pm
And why do you say it isn’t?
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August 30, 2011 at 5:50 pm
three words: INNOCENT UNBORN BABY
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September 3, 2011 at 3:24 pm
Now Pat, that was beneath you, don’t you think?
HOMICIDE: the killing of one person by another.
“Although the term homicide is sometimes used synonymously with murder, homicide is broader in scope than murder. Murder is a form of criminal homicide; other forms of homicide might not constitute criminal acts. These homicides are regarded as justified or excusable. For example, individuals may, in a necessary act of Self-Defense, kill a person who threatens them with death or serious injury, or they may be commanded or authorized by law to kill a person who is a member of an enemy force or who has committed a serious crime. Typically, the circumstances surrounding a killing determine whether it is criminal. The intent of the killer usually determines whether a criminal homicide is classified as murder or Manslaughter and at what degree.”
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August 30, 2011 at 11:37 am
Then the should be punished. Why go all soft at a critical part of the legal process?
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August 31, 2011 at 3:40 pm
Time for you to leave too, P.
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August 29, 2011 at 6:59 pm
Late again! But I can help you out here, Pat, and then I’ll read the nine who got here before me.
I don’t know if some prolifers focus on the comfort of the women who are paying someone to kill young people, or if their real intention is to weaken the killing industry. But if it’s not to weaken the killing industry, it should be.
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August 29, 2011 at 8:07 pm
Are you speaking of the killing industry and terrorism of Pro Life terrorism?
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August 29, 2011 at 8:09 pm
John,
From your previous quotes you appear to support the terrorism of the Pro Life terrorism murder industry.
Is that true?
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August 30, 2011 at 4:53 am
Of course I don’t support terrorism, G! I’m doing what I can, and that;’s far too little, to stop terrorists like yourself!
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August 30, 2011 at 4:44 pm
Gloria, he engages in a form of bullying women that is protected by the mayor. If he had to go through what he puts those women through, he’d quit in a hurry. You would have known his type in grade school.
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August 30, 2011 at 5:49 pm
Yes, and if you were even threatened with what the unborn babies go through you would change your tune as well. It’s easy to be pro-choice when you are not the one getting killed.
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August 30, 2011 at 6:20 pm
oooof
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September 3, 2011 at 4:01 pm
“It responds to stimuli in an avoidance mode”
So Chuck, you not only push your theories without so much as a shred of proof or even FEARLESS unbiased interviews and research into the very issue you fight, you also dismiss scienctific facts?
Here is a question for you: Does it respond to ALL stimuli in an “avoidance mode,” such as the sound of it’s mothers voice, or music?
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August 30, 2011 at 6:42 pm
Au contraire, voice– the fetus does not feel pain; it responds to stimuli in an avoidance mode, but without consciousness of what it does or why. It responds the way an earthworm does. If I were a fetus, I would have no idea what was being done to me, whether it was surgery or an abortion, and I would not recognize it as pain.
It is you who endow the fetus with fully human traits in order to do the necessary acting out required in the dysfunctional twelve-step program which calls itself “right to life.”
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August 31, 2011 at 4:41 am
Au contraire contraire, Chuck — Chuck does not feel pain; it responds to stimuli in an avoidance mode, but without consciousness of what it does or why. It responds the way an earthworm does. If the fetus were I, she would have no idea what was being done to her, whether it was surgery or an “abortion,” and she would not recognize it as pain.
It is you who endow me with fully human traits in order to do the necessary acting out required in the dysfunctional twelve-step program which calls itself “aborticentrism.”
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August 31, 2011 at 4:58 am
“Au contraire, voice– the fetus does not feel pain”
Not true.
“The question of fetal pain is difficult to determine, since a fetus cannot communicate what it is feeling. Most scientists believe that pain is experienced in the cortical areas of the brain, which do not develop until the second trimester. Painful experiences result in autonomic (they occur automatically during pain) physiologic changes that can be measured. For example, when we fell pain, our bodies produce endorphins and cortisol to help deal with the pain. One study was conducted on fetuses during blood draws. This study showed elevated fetal plasma cortisol and beta-endorphin response to intrauterine needling early in the second trimester”
Giannakoulopoulos X, Sepulveda W, Kourris P, Glover V, and Fisk NM. 1994. Fetal plasma cortisol and beta-endorphin response to intrauterine needling. Lancet 344:77-81
“A recent study examined the question of fetal pain through the direct measurement of cortical brain responses in premature infants. Using real-time near-infrared spectroscopy, blood flow in the contralateral somatosensory cortex of the brain was measured during routine blood draws. The results showed that cortical blood flow was significantly elevated in infants as young as 25 weeks gestational age during needle puncture to draw blood. It was also noted that cortical brain response was higher in awake infants than those who were asleep. These results showed that the fetal brain can detect pain at least at 25 weeks of age. Since no premature infants were younger than 25 weeks, it did not determine the earliest age at which the fetus would feel pain.”
Slater, R, A. Cantarella, S. Gallella, A. Worley, S. Boyd, J. Meek, and M. Fitzgerald. 2006. Cortical Pain Responses in Human Infants. The Journal of Neuroscience 26: 3662-3666.
“A more recent study examined cells from the cerebral cortices of 20- to 21-week-old fetuses, finding functional glutamate or GABA ionotropic receptors are expressed on human subplate (SP) neurons. Those cells exhibited bursts of electrical activity interspersed with periods of quiet, similar to that seen in adult cortical brain cells. Although the article seemed intent on answering the question of how brains go wrong during development, the results might have a much larger impact on the abortion question.A. R. Moore et al. 2011. Spontaneous electrical activity in the human fetal cortex in vitro.” The Journal of Neuroscience 31: 2391.
http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/fetal_pain.html
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August 31, 2011 at 4:49 pm
Sorry, voice, but the mere production of endorphins and enkephalins (the same pain-blocking chemicals worms have) doesn’t mean they FEEL it; it simply means they have a functioning limbic system, the same as snakes and other more primitive critters. Good research, though! My hat’s off to you for taking a sincere effort.
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August 31, 2011 at 7:10 pm
Chuck is hung up on his belief that he can help kill people if they don’t feel pain. Be careful you folks asleep. Be careful you sedated. Chuck’s coming. You folks would have really no idea when Chuck helps slide in the knife. The folks he’s helping to kill now, though, are wide awake and suffering.
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August 30, 2011 at 7:41 am
Appreciate your candor, John. It just riles me that so many pro-lifers are pushing these regs under the BS that they want the clinics to be clean, etc. They want to close the clinics, pure and simple, right?
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August 30, 2011 at 8:29 am
Well I do, Pat, but you’d be surprised at the number of us who really are more concerned about the woman in stress than about the baby in mortal danger. I blame that misplaced concern for the fact that baby killing is still legal and will remain legal till 2051.
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August 30, 2011 at 11:41 am
That’s why you cannot go soft on the punishment. You need to keep punishment as a deterrent. Why do you not want to punish the murderers? I cannot see the integrity in your logic.
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August 30, 2011 at 3:35 pm
How ’bout this: execute the killers; incarcerate the killers’ helpers most directly involved, like the woman and her boyfriend or whoever else walks her into the auschwitz; fine the other killers’ helpers according to their degree of guilt; e.g, Kate, ten grand; Chuck and Rog, five each; Pat, a hundred bucks; and the AIs, a buck and a half — and give the money to me.
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August 31, 2011 at 12:25 pm
The women who is pregnant is the most directly involved, especially if she takes the Abortion Pill herself.
In fact, I guess you would execute thousands ( or more ) of those women every year?
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August 31, 2011 at 12:44 pm
Same thing — find out who’s selling the stuff and execute him. Give the woman little slack, maybe a few years.
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August 31, 2011 at 5:45 pm
Why would you give the actual murderer only a few years?
She wants to kill the baby.
She takes the medicine to kill the baby.
She does the whole process.
Where has your logic gone? Be intellectually honest. They should be punished severely for murdering, a baby. And not just any baby. This is even worse, it is their own baby!
Why did you go so limp on punishment so suddenly?
Don’t you want the deterrent value?
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August 31, 2011 at 7:12 pm
Damn, Sherry, you might be right!
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August 30, 2011 at 11:27 am
Of course we want them closed, but in the meantime we want them regulated. It is infuriating that they kill babies in the first place much less that they insist on doing it on their own terms with very little if any regulations to make sure that they aren’t keeping dead babies on the back porch in freezers (it happened), or making women sit on blood encrusted chairs (it happened), or using dirty instruments (that happened too).
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August 29, 2011 at 8:24 pm
There must be at least one ProLifer with the background or intelligence to answer some questions, but they seem to hide or don’t exist. Why is that?
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August 30, 2011 at 4:55 am
“. . . but she seems to hide or doesn’t exist.” — can”t you folks talk straight?
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August 30, 2011 at 4:47 pm
Carie, they cannot face up to the reasons why they do what they do, nor the reason that they focus so intently on the existence of the fetus. They choose the one segment of life over which they have no power whatsoever (short of surrogate pregnancy) and claim to be protecting it. Why do they DO this?
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August 29, 2011 at 8:30 pm
Why don’t pro lifers in America seem to want to take care of children that are in poverty and starving?
We look to America and are deeply saddened by what we see as examples of hippo rash in the American Misogynistic Pro Life system. The very worst of example for the developing countries around the world!
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August 29, 2011 at 9:06 pm
Pat,
Do you see what I mean about the Pro-choice Propaganda Manual? They all say the same thing no matter what subject you write about.
1. What about tubal pregnancy?
2. What about the anencephalic pregnancy?
3. Do you believe in birth control?
4, Catholics are pedophiles.
5. Why aren’t you taking care of born children?
6. You are damned to eternal hell.
7. Repeat 1-7
8. Repeat it again
9. Ditto
10. Ditto
They either have a manual or they all visited the same spaceship and had their brains programmed the same.
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August 30, 2011 at 7:44 am
C’mon, Voice. Admit it, people on both sides get their info spoon fed from some source and after a while the arguments are usually the same, right? Pro-lifers have a certain mantra as do pro-choicers. What I hope to accomplish here is to delve a little deeper into our feelings about the issue. I basically ignore the short silly questions about all Catholics being pedophiles, etc. But, again, I also ignore the “you’re all murderers” stuff as well.
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August 30, 2011 at 11:21 am
“C’mon, Voice. Admit it, people on both sides get their info spoon fed from some source and after a while the arguments are usually the same, right?”
To a degree, yes. There are simple minded folks on both sides who simply quote the same old mantra without any real knowledge of the subject at hand. But when a question is asked and someone is answering it and someone else jumps in with an “Eternal damnation to you” statement or a “CPC’s are lying mills” then you have to wonder what they think they are accomplishing besides showing their ignorance.
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August 30, 2011 at 11:09 am
I honestly think that abortion should be part of health care. A women should be able to walk in her local hospital and request an abortion, this would avoid so much later costs for the government.
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August 30, 2011 at 11:22 am
What later costs would that be?
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August 30, 2011 at 11:48 am
Ahh . . .
Melissa, that pleasant voice of reason.
Good to see you write again!
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August 30, 2011 at 1:24 pm
Welfare for instance…
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August 30, 2011 at 1:56 pm
So you would rather the government pay for their death than pay for their upkeep? Wow! Kill ’em so we don’t have to feed ’em.
That in of itself should show every pro-choice person on here the depths of inhumane thinking that we as a society have reached.
The next step in that parade is kill the elderly. We don’t want to waste our resources on them do we? Kill the terminally ill while you’re at it. Why waste food on them, they’re going to die anyway, right? Kill the handicapped, they aren’t worth anything taking all of that food and those government checks that could go to the deserving ones. I mean really, where do you stop when you get that mindset? Kill them so we don’t have to feed them! We are a deranged bunch aren’t we?
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August 30, 2011 at 2:37 pm
Wow, you are right on point! I am for the killing of the elderly though.
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August 30, 2011 at 2:44 pm
*i meant no for it!!!
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August 30, 2011 at 3:17 pm
Melissa,
Hey, be careful what you say. I am in the elderly crowd.
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August 30, 2011 at 6:24 pm
“So you would rather the government pay for their death than pay for their upkeep? Wow! Kill ‘em so we don’t have to feed ‘em.” Ouch!
(You got Mel discombobulated.)
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August 30, 2011 at 3:53 pm
@Kathleen,
I didn’t mean kill the elderly I meant I wasn’t for the killing of them.
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August 30, 2011 at 4:55 pm
After you’d talked to my mother, Kathleen, she might have changed your mind. Her solution to a lot of long-term problems was, “Let it die.” We never wondered until we were middle-aged why she used to let us play in our bathing suits in thunderstorms…
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August 30, 2011 at 6:26 pm
Geez! Mom too! No wonder you’re the way you are.
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September 2, 2011 at 11:05 am
Responsible,
After hearing that I would hope I could have changed her mind. My mom’s slogan, “Keep on trucking, the end is in sight”.
.
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August 30, 2011 at 6:48 pm
voice says, “A fetus is only a “potential” human being to those who want to justify the killing of it. The rest of us know full well that it is a human being. It’s human, science proves that and it’s a “being’. What else do you want? It is homicide!”
If a fetus is born and no one nurtures it, voice, it will grow up to be subhuman at best. I recommend you read up on feral children. You could nurture it, but it is clear you have chosen not to (everybody who does, or even tries, defends himself here).
Wanting it to be fully human from the moment of conception is for the self-proclaimed “pro-lifer” a necessary conceit.
The only one who can call a fetus a baby is the pregnant woman. All the rest, done without her permission, is aborticentric romanticisim.
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August 30, 2011 at 8:33 pm
“The only one who can call a fetus a baby is the pregnant woman. All the rest, done without her permission, is aborticentric romanticisim.”
That has got to be the most asinine piece of nothing that I have ever heard. It is an unborn baby regardless of what the woman wants. Her permission does not make it what it is nor does her lack of permission change what it is.
My cat is really a lion because I give it permission to be one. Yeah that’s right! And my parrot is really a taradactle, my goldfish a shark, and my iguana a dragon. All because I give them permission to be.
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August 30, 2011 at 10:26 pm
What is asinine about this? are you calling it asinine that the overwhelming majority of scientists claim that a fertilized egg is a “potential” human being or human pregnancy tissue or products of conception? if statistics play out this fertilized egg potentiality, you know, the one that ends up in the toilet, then how is this asinine? So, there’s a clot in the toilet that you call an unborn baby? Really?
AND HERE’S THE UNBELIEVABLE HEIGHT OF WOMAN-HATE:. “It is an unborn baby regardless of what the woman wants. Her permission does not make it what it is nor does her lack of permission change what it is.”
In other words, the woman doesn’t count. She’s a slave ship in her own shoes. Her job is to be an incubator. Period. It doesn’t matter what she wants.
Oh, another thing, Voice, [snap*] watch the spelling and grammar. I’m shocked Dunmbkle has been so slow to pick up on “it’s a mute [moot] point” or “Her permission does not make it what it is nor does her lack of permission change what it is.” and “And my parrot is really a taradactle”
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August 31, 2011 at 5:05 am
Yeah, thanks for the DIVERSION of a spelling/grammar lesson (rolls eyes while pretending to give a crap).
Stating that the unborn baby is a baby regardless of the woman’s mindset has nothing to do with woman hating. You must have had to reach way down in the gutter of pro-choice propaganda to find that one.
Again, my cat is a cat regardless of if I want it or not. Actually, I hate the darn thing, maybe it’s a grasshopper now. Hold on, I’m going to go check!
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August 31, 2011 at 5:15 am
“So, there’s a clot in the toilet that you call an unborn baby? Really?”
By 8 weeks that “clot” has arms, legs, finger, toes, a beating heart, and if someone doesn’t suck it out of the womb with a vacuum it would grow into a beautiful child. Sorry, the “clot” is another form of pro-choice propaganda as is “product of conception and “potential human”.
Pat, you asked for an example of pro-choice propaganda. Well, there ya go. Served up to your order thanks to Glouria.
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August 31, 2011 at 5:17 am
“In other words, the woman doesn’t count. She’s a slave ship in her own shoes. Her job is to be an incubator. Period. It doesn’t matter what she wants.”
What she ‘wants” does not justify the killing of a human. Never has and never will.
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August 31, 2011 at 4:56 am
“My cat is really a lion because I give it permission to be one. Yeah that’s right! And my parrot is really a taradactle, my goldfish a shark, and my iguana a dragon. All because I give them permission to be.”
Wow! This was going great. And then G had to step in . G!
AIs are allowed here only when I give them permission!
And Chuck, “If a fetus is born and no one nurtures it, voice, it will grow up to be subhuman at best.” From what you told us about Mom and Dad, no one nurtured you, and you’re not subhuman! Hurt, confused, isolated, sure, but not subhuman. And there’s still hope (just follow Kate’s lead).
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August 31, 2011 at 4:57 pm
Actually, you are indicating you have a less than total commitment to your pet(s) with those statements. An elderly couple once asked me where they could buy a confirmation card for their friend’s dog. She had had it baptized, and she had scheduled a confirmation.
Some people invest meaning in their pets far beyond what some other people invest in their children. Lucky pets! Unlucky children!
As an example, I knew a woman who walked her one-year-old unprotected in a stroller for a mile in a rainstorm to buy cigarettes. Some years later, when he was about six, she tore out a handful of his hair in a rage.
Therefore, unless you take on a surrogate pregnancy, you cannot call a fetus a child, because there is no guarantee it will be endowed with that reality unless you are the guarantor.
Understand?
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August 31, 2011 at 7:16 pm
Chuck, from what you told us, your Mom did lots worse than pulling out your hair. I’d still have called you a child!
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September 3, 2011 at 4:20 pm
So Chuck, that six year old being abused wasn’t a feeling human being? You wish he had need killed in the womb? That’s the answer to the problem of abuse? Kill them before they are born, and give their potential abusers TRUST WOMEN! RESPECT WOMEN! Cart blanche to do it? Isn’t that ultimate abuse? (Still no answer throughout several articles about this, btw)
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September 3, 2011 at 4:24 pm
Oh, and Chuck, since the instances of truly feral children is so rare throughout history, I would tell you that using them as having any sort of valid connection to abortion in any way is grasping at straws.
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September 5, 2011 at 4:08 am
“Grasping at straws,” but not just Chuck. That’s what they all do, isn’t it. They cannot logically defend killing innocent children, and straws are all they have. That doesn’t mean that we prolifers do not grasp at straws ourselves, and the value of the pro-deathers here is that can see right through us when we do. That’s why I believe that when child killing becomes illegal again, Pat should be awarded a medal.
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August 31, 2011 at 8:26 am
For some reason, I cannot “reply” directly under someone’s specific comment. Apologies. One thing, however, that Voice said. He/she talked about fetuses being thrown in garbage pails, women sitting in blood, etc. Many years ago, when the abortion “industry” was in its infancy, there were unfortunately a number of unscrupulous providers out there that did some outrageous things. As the field matured, those practices because more rare. And, yes, there is a sleazeball or two out there that might do some weird things, but the vast majority of clinics out there are sanitary, caring, well run. Indeed, JOHN, would you not admit that Jen’s clinic at least seems to be clean and well run?
My point is, Voice, that we all have to stop harkening to the past or looking for that one or two oddities to make a point. It would be as if I always argued that you and John, et al were all terrorists/murderers because of Paul Hill or Michael Griffin…..
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August 31, 2011 at 10:28 am
I’ve heard some bad things about the AWC, Pat, but I can’t be sure because I haven’t been in there yet. But here’s a story that’s related:
The parking lot is big, half the size of a football field. I’d noticed all the parking places near the mill door were occupied by workers. Damaged women would sometimes have to shuffle fifty yards to reach their cars. I said to one of the beautiful and sweet women who work there, Frances, who used to talk to me before Jen clamped down, “Frances, ya know those vests Walmart workers wear, ‘How Can I Help You?’ You guys should wear one, ‘How can I hurt you?’ ” Frances smiled and I noticed the situation improve. Moral: if you want to clean up the place, call John Dunkle.
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September 3, 2011 at 4:33 pm
Pat, surely you know that public outcry, mostly from the pro-life sector, leading to regulating the industry has caused these changes, not just that “the industry has grown”. It’s a money making machine, that can’t be denied, and without that constant public outcry it wouldn’t have cleaned itself up, nor would those unscrupulous clinics have faded away on their own. I think you know all the answers to your article, but it was good fodder for a new piece.
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August 31, 2011 at 9:36 am
Has anyone heard of the book Unnatural Selection by Mara Hvistendahl? Already critically acclaimed her book, “Unnatural Selection:Choosing Boys over Girls and the Consequences of a World Full of Men,” She said that aside from the basic issue of baby girls being aborted due to their gender in countries such as China, India, Armenis, Georgia, other human rights abuses are beginning to arise from the shortage of women in these regions. “Women are being bought and sold – trafficked for sex work and for marriage,” she said , noting that the increase in bride-buying and forced prostitution in these countries is staggering. Still want to choose????
the also states that through funding from western orgs. such as Planned parenthood Federation, grants were being funneled into population control initiatives in eastern countries, with sex-selective abortion seen as an effective tool.
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August 31, 2011 at 2:55 pm
@voice,
If you think abortion is so wrong and it should be illegal, what do you suggest we do with all the unwanted children that will come into this world?. This would not be a better place if they were all here. We would experience more crime, more poverty, more violence and everything bad that comes from not having the support system one needs to be a normal and productive citizen.
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August 31, 2011 at 3:42 pm
Melissa, Do you enjoy the negativity that surrounds you. How bout shedding that and thinking positive. We would experience more love, more wealth, more caring people and everything good that comes from having a support system one needs to be productive citizens, eg. family.
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August 31, 2011 at 3:53 pm
“If you think abortion is so wrong and it should be illegal, what do you suggest we do with all the unwanted children that will come into this world? This would not be a better place if they were all here.”
Why of course it would be a better place, Mel! They would serve to balance out the killers and their helpers, like yourself, who are running the world now. People who kill other people, the very bottom rung of the human ladder. Nowhere to go but up.
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September 4, 2011 at 5:01 pm
Running! I should have said “ruining.”
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August 31, 2011 at 4:44 pm
So, “Voice” makes several allegations about how bad clinics are, dead fetuses lying on the floor, blood everywhere, unsterilized tools. And I ask for a little more proof and nothing. At least John responded responsibly by saying he has never been in the AWC clinic. But, John, then you talk about a woman who has to walk a distance to get to the clinic? That’s the best you got? I’ve been there, John. I know how big that parking lot is. These women are not totally incapacitated you know…But, again, thank you for at least acknowledging that some of the stuff that is put out there could be heresay…..
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August 31, 2011 at 5:50 pm
Voice has revealed a complete lack of knowledge many times over.
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August 31, 2011 at 7:20 pm
“I’ve been there, John. I know how big that parking lot is.”
Come back. I’d sure like to meet you. Pastor Bahmann is so much like you. We should get together.
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September 1, 2011 at 8:37 am
And what is Pastor Bahmann like? How is he like me?
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September 1, 2011 at 1:39 pm
Pastor is a killers’ helper like you, and he is open, generous, knowledgeable, and peace loving, also like you.
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September 3, 2011 at 4:39 pm
Pat, did you ever answer any of the questions/comments (there have been several) I’ve put to you? I got tired of scrolling through previous articles looking and finding nothing, but I want to give you the benefit of the doubt.
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September 3, 2011 at 4:48 pm
After reading your comment I went back and read Voice’s comment. In each instance she said “it happened” in the past tense. Taken in context of her making a point of why clinics need to be regulated, and in the context of your article, I am very surprised that you resorted to the same shell game that almost every other pro-choice person here has done. For shame Pat. I thought you were supposed to be the openminded voice of reason around here?
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September 1, 2011 at 7:28 am
Everyone knows the Pro Life legislators are just playing games with our lives and civil right with their repulsive legislation. Just like the conservatives played games and screwed up our economy, and started wars that were not necessary murdering thousands of innocents lives, that these pro lifers will say is OK. Just watch.
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September 1, 2011 at 8:38 am
I agree, Riley, that they are playing games. For a political party that says they want government out of lives, they are sure pretty intrusive when it comes to this very personal issue…..
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September 1, 2011 at 8:46 am
Somewhere above, John was ask what would we do with all the unwanted children if abortion were illegal and he said: “Why of course it would be a better place, Mel! They would serve to balance out the killers and their helpers, like yourself, who are running the world now. People who kill other people, the very bottom rung of the human ladder. Nowhere to go but up.”
Help me here, Johnny Boy. Let’s say this weekend you actually stopped 10 abortions and those women had the children. Are you saying all of those ten kids would be productive, upstanding, honest, contributing members of our society?
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September 1, 2011 at 11:49 am
Pat,
Can you honestly say that any ten people on this blog are productive, upstanding, honest, contributing members of our society? I would think not, yet they were given the chance to live. So how do we decide who has to go from this place? Whom shall we abort?
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September 1, 2011 at 6:04 pm
“Help me here, Johnny Boy. Let’s say this weekend you actually stopped 10 abortions and those women had the children. Are you saying all of those ten kids would be productive, upstanding, honest, contributing members of our society?”
No, Pat, I am not saying that at all. All I am saying is that they would be on at least the second rung of the human ladder, the bottom rung being occupied by you and your buddies (or, more likely, me and my buddies).
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September 2, 2011 at 6:40 am
This from a man who cannot admit that children need proper nurture to develop into well-functioning adults.
It’s important for self-proclaimed “pro-lifers” to maintain a fantasy world in which everything runs in perfect harmony once they’ve played at being a “rescuer.”
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September 2, 2011 at 6:35 pm
It is hard to argue with a guy who is a poorly-functioning adult after he’s told us that he was not properly nurtured. All I can say is I like like him anyway. I’m happy he’s alive.
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September 3, 2011 at 5:38 pm
I’M saying that I could immediately find all 10 of those children loving homes. I’m also saying that there would be NO glut of unwanted babies, because these women don’t want to birth babies or raise them. They would
1. go back to regulating themselves TRUST WOMEN! RESPECT WOMEN! and not get pregnant in the first place. The ones that did get pregnant for whatever reason, would either
2. break the law and risk life and limb to get a back alley abortion, or
3. obey the law TRUST WOMEN! RESPECT WOMEN! have it and end up very thankful they did and raise it to be a good citizen, or
4. have it and give it up for adoption TRUST WOMEN! RESPECT WOMEN! to people who would raise it to be a good citizen, or
5. they would have it and be lousy parents and raise a Chuck; hurting, bitter and angry, but still deserving of his life, and his chance to find peace. Abortion is the one irreversible option of all that, that the woman can’t undo after the dust of an unwanted pregnancy has settled. Abortion takes away all the other options that a woman in crisis may not consider. Abortion proponents are the only ones who seem to NOT trust or respect women. Abortion not being legally available automatically builds in a chance to change her mind, and insures that the child have the same chance that Chuck was given. Is that really so awful an outcome? Do you all really believe we do this because we hate women? Really? I don’t insert TRUST WOMEN! RESPECT WOMEN! to be a smart butt, but to make a point. It’s YOUR mantra, yet you seem to really believe those same women, at least the majority of them, will screw up, abuse, neglect and make serial killers of their children. You always ask us what we are doing for the born children. I ask you, what are you doing for these millions of messed up (in your minds) women, besides helping them feel good about their irreversible “choice?” I will believe you TRULY care about them when you push for changes in the industry that call fOr clinics to be run like Cancer Centers of America, holistically. Since this is the taking of a human life, and is irreversible, have unbiased psychologists there, as well as welcoming her clergy of choice. Push for parental notification, and the rights of the fathers. Have professionals there from adoption agencies to educate her about that process. Do everything in your power to ensure she is given all her options and has a support system available to her. Then I’ll believe you really trust and respect women. Women have persevered since the beginning of time, overcoming poverty, abuse, torture, slavery, human trafficking, lack of basic rights as a citizen.fEw can handle an unwanted pregnancy.
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September 3, 2011 at 6:18 pm
We, not few. Stupid iPad.
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September 1, 2011 at 9:26 am
Al Said asks why no Christian on the blog addresses the history of divinely-ordered infanticide in the Bible.
The appeal of the Bible (and most other texts of the world’s major religions) is to the powerless and vindictive (marked traits of the so-called “pro-lifer” population). Gore sells! Check out in a concordance the huge numbers of passages with killing, slaying, etc., and the tiny numbers of love, sharing, caring, and you’ll see why it’s been such a big sller over the years.
And why does the Christian God countenance and command all that? Because like most major deities, he has a sense of humor….
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September 1, 2011 at 10:14 am
“So, “Voice” makes several allegations about how bad clinics are, dead fetuses lying on the floor, blood everywhere, unsterilized tools. And I ask for a little more proof and nothing. At least John responded responsibly by saying he has never been in the AWC clinic.”
Fortunately Pat I do have a life other than answering questions on this blog. I was quite busy yesterday so I will thank you to not be so judgmental the next time your question isn’t answered within a few seconds.
Now to the question,
These things happen more than most would think. Here are a few examples:
Franz Theard, and El paso who worked at a New Mexico clinic will face an Informal Settlement Conference/Show of Compliance (ISC) hearing on October 28, 2011, at 1:00 PM. because one of their employees employees coached a caller who claimed to be a minor seeking an abortion, to cross state lines to avoid having to comply with the Texas parental notification law. Also, Aborted baby remains were in a parking lot outside Theard’s El Paso abortion clinic earlier this year.
Furthermore, in Texas these abortionists are facing possible discipline for abortion abuses : William Watkins West, Jr., Robert E. Hanson, Jr., Pedro J. Kowalyszyn, Sherwood C. Lynn, Margaret Kini, Alan Molson, Robert L. Prince, Douglas Karpen, and H. Brook Randal. Texas Medical Board reports.
The illegal disposal of hazardous bio-medical and infectious waste, including human urine, blood, and tissue that were recovered from open trash bins, along with the discovery of dirty and poorly maintained conditions inside the abortion clinics.
• Drug violations through the illegal disposal of vials still containing controlled substances that were found mixed in with bloody waste from the abortions.
• Massive violations of the Federal Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA), which is designed to protect the privacy of patients and their medical information. Hundreds of patient names, addresses, and other sensitive information was discovered and recovered that had been illegally dumped or discarded by the abortion clinics.
• Widespread abuses to the Texas mandated informed consent laws, where abortionists were recorded mocking the information or giving the information in such an inaudible manner that patients are heard on the recording complaining that they could not understand a word that was being said. This includes violations of the 24-hour waiting period.
• Undercover calls and visits to the abortion clinics revealed a pattern of willingness to help minors evade parental consent laws and ignore the mandatory reporting of child sex abuse.
Leroy Carhart is currently under criminal investigation in his home state of Nebraska and he is currently under investigation in Maryland for misrepresenting facts on his Maryland medical license application. Maryland Department Of Health and Mental Hygiene case number 2011-0461 if you want to look it up. Carhart has a history of involvement in multiple botched late-term abortions during his employment in Kansas, including the third trimester death of 19-year old Christin Gilbert.
Maryland regulators have banned abortionist Steven Brigham. The state ordered Brigham to cease and desist from the practice of medicine and suspended the licenses of his two associates for helping Brigham evade the law. You can find his activities all over the internet but the Star Ledger has several reports on it.
The Louisiana Department of Health and Hospitals revoked the clinic license of Hope Medical Group for Women in Shreveport and ordered them to halt all abortions there after finding that they didn’t even bother to monitor a patient’s vital signs or physically examine women prior to abortions. New York Times ran a story on this
Here is a PARTIAL list of women killed by LEGAL abortion in the last 20 years .
Lisa Bardsley, AZ, 1995
Deanna Bell, IL, 1992
Colleen Chambers, CA, 1991
Andrea Corey, VT, 1993
Edith Cote, NY, 1991
Mary Ann Dancy, NC, 1990
Arlin dela Cruz, PA, 1992
Alerte Desanges, NY, 1994
Tamika Dowdy, NY, 1998
Anjelica Duarte, NV, 1991
Maureen Espinoza, TX, 1997
Jammie Garcia, TX, 1994
Christin Gilbert, TX, 2005
Christina Goesswein, NY, 1990
Carolina Gutierrez, FL, 1996
Angela Hall, AL, 1991
Sharon Hamptlon, CA, 1996
Tammy Harris, DE, 1997
Lou Anne Herron, AZ, 1998
Shirley Hollis, AL, 1991
Giselene Lafontant, NY, 1993
Susan Levy, CA, 1992
Suzanne Logan, MD, 1992
Dawn Mack, NY, 1991
Kathy McKnight, NC, 1993
Sandra Milton, Oh, 1990
Christine Mora, CA, 1994
Kelly Morse, PA, 1996
Guadalupe Negron, NY, 1993
Sara Niebel, GA, 1994
Shanice Denise Osbourne, FL, 2006
DaNette Perguson, AZ, 1992
Magdalena Rodriguez, CA, 1994
Rhonda Rollinson, PA, 1992
Angela Sanchez, CA, 1993
Angela Satterfield, OK, 1990
Laura Hope Smith, MA, 2007
Ingrid Thomas, MI, 1991
Latachie Veal, TX, 1991
Ingar Weber, LA, 1990
Nichole Williams, MO, 1997
Tanya Williamson, NY, 1996
Virginia Wolfe, TX, 1998
The New Mexico Board of Physicians reports that three Albuquerque abortionists who specialize in late-term abortions are under investigation for a spate of abortion injuries that took place over a 15-month time span. Shelley Sella, Susan Robinson and Curtis Boyd are all under investigation.
That is case number 2011-D-119(Boyd)2011-D-120(Robinson),2011-D-121-Sella, if anyone wants to look it up.
Is that enough for you or do you want more examples? There are plenty out there, actually enough to fill several volumes of books. The thing is that most people just don’t care enough to do the research to put it all together. There are several books out there by pro-life organizations that DOCUMENT these things that go on as well as several websites but you guys would dismiss it as being biased even though it is documented because you don’t really want to know all that goes on. It’s much easier to continue the practice if you pretend as if it is safe and above board.
I remember a while ago a tractor trailer load of aborted babies (No kidding! I am sure Pat remembers this as well) was found on a storage lot). There were hundreds of LARGE babies in black garbage bags stored in this trailer. Guess what? It was swept under the rug and no big deal was ever made about it. Why? Because nobody gives a crap about dead babies in the back of trailers in garbage bags. Everybody wants to pretend as if this is normal life and go on about their business. Except for a few of us loudmouths that you guys hate because we expose it. Our society is screwed up people. We need to look at it for what it is.
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September 1, 2011 at 1:51 pm
Christians hate when all the murder and torture over centuries, and pedophilia a over the last few decades are exposed.
Should we ban Christianity because of this?
The heinous crimes of the Christian cults have been a lot more numerous than the relatively few bad doctors that have performed abortions.
Be honest and address the issue.
Should we outlaw Christianity because of all the people that have been murdered in the name of the Jesus cult?
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September 1, 2011 at 3:03 pm
Riley, my suggestion is to say little and read widely for two years. Then come back here, say something, and I’ll let you know if you should say more.
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September 1, 2011 at 4:28 pm
Riley your lack of logic to compare one to the other shows your complete ignorance of the subjects at hand.
Why would you bring Christianity into this discussion? We are talking about abortion clinic regulations or the lack thereof causing women to be injured and killed.
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September 3, 2011 at 6:29 pm
Also Riley, you did exactly what Voice said, you ignored that LARGE babies were in that truck. It wasn’t about the neglect of the provider in disposing rather than storing them in the truck. It was about a tractor trailer truck full of late term aborted babies, and you are so immune to it that you can’t even feel the slightest emotion about that. Thank you for proving my point that this is what happens to a society that advocates the killing of it’s unborn. This should disgust and upset all people, not just pro-lifers.
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September 1, 2011 at 10:41 am
but see Deanna or ” The Voice” there are endless sites upon this subject of dead baby jokes and such, but joking aside yeah its horrific, but what pat wants is not a list of dead women that were struck at the wrong place at the wrong time, he is asking why all of these oddities are arising in the pro life sector of this dilemma.
no prolifer has come to the ground of the procedure or qualifications or anything logistic.
in other words if people care so much about stopping it why put lockers, and a custodial lounge? it makes no sense to stand braising women around all day for no other reason but to put couches in a room, a locker system. because there is no hope to stopping it, And why does the Christian God countenance and command all that? Because like most major deities, he has a sense of humor…. thanks chuckles.
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September 1, 2011 at 10:52 am
As I stated waaaaay up the comment line several times, we want the clinics regulated so that they will stop producing a list of dead women,not to mention the dead babies .I am making the logical assumption that the lockers are to prevent the women’s belongings from being stolen and I am assuming logically as well that that there is a reason this is necessary. I know in my state hospitals provide lockers for people having outpatient surgery and other procedures (MRI, s etc) So it may not be as far fetched of an idea as you think. I have no idea about the couches in the rooms.I have never heard of that regulation. The cutting the grass stuff makes sense to me since some of these clinics are rat holes with grass as high as the window seals. I mean let’s face it, some of these places are slums and the clinic owners are slum lords. Pat will admit that one. So the regulations are to prevent slum lords from operating abortion clinics. Don’t you think that is a good idea?
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September 1, 2011 at 1:57 pm
We want the Christian Cult Mills of Pedophilia and Dangerous brainwashing regulated. Is their anything wrong with that?
The Christian Cult Mills have killed more than any other institution in history.
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September 2, 2011 at 6:39 pm
We want Riley and his ilk, Pedophiliacs and Dangerous Brainwashers, regulated. Is their anything wrong with that?
The Riley group have killed more than any other institution in history.
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