I’m not gonna talk about abortion today but I am still pretty confident that this will generate our usual exciting discussions!
A relative of mine lives in Tennessee. He is 31 years old, has a lovely wife and makes a good living as an attorney for a big law firm. He and his wife are very devout Catholics and faithfully adhere to all of the rules and regulations, including the one that basically says you should only have sex to procreate. They say they use the “rhythm method,” which I frankly don’t know if the church condones or not. But, basically, that’s their form of “birth control.”
Well, it ain’t working very well because in the last 6 years, they’ve had four children. And I just learned that they are now expecting baby number five! But when I saw them this weekend, I could not bring myself to congratulate them because I believe that producing five children is a very selfish act.
Now, they have enough money to raise the kids in a nice setting. We do not have to worry about them sopping off the public dole. And the kids will probably grow up to be productive citizens, although – yes – it is possible that one or two of the five might wind up being drug dealing psychopaths. But, let’s be optimistic and say that they will all grow up to be wonderful pillars of society.
Here’s the problem. The Catholics who read and comment on this blog believe that their religion is “the word,” that all of the other religions don’t have much to offer and, indeed, are way off base. This not only relates to the issue of abortion, but to so many other issues that the church pokes its nose into. But if it were up to many Catholics, we would all sign up with their church and join them in following the dictates of the Pope, like lemmings to the sea. And, if we all did that, we’d all be producing 5, 6, 7 kids.
And while each one of those kids might be a “blessing,” as many suggest, I still think that having that many kids is a selfish act. Many years ago, when we had an infinite amount of resources and it actually was helpful to have a crap load of kids
working the family farm. But that’s not the world we live in anymore. We are using up all of our food, our water and other natural resources at an alarming rate. Oh sure, those of you reading this might be sitting in a nice comfortable heated house but take a minute and read about the rest of the world, especially the Third World countries.
The point is that if every woman becomes a breeder reactor, the plethora of children they produced will be adversely affecting the world that my TWO children are living in. That’s because we share the same planet, we breathe the same air. We can just simply no longer afford to be propagating at a pace like this young couple.
And, let me throw in this wrench: if I told you the same story and the woman was an illegal immigrant and crack addict living on welfare in the Bronx, would you still be saying that her sixth child was a “blessing?”
October 6, 2011 at 5:36 pm
And so the great experiment worked. I post something and the they go mad.
Such fun. They’re so easy.
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October 7, 2011 at 5:52 am
Trying something new, Kate? (Bet you forget where you learned this trick — me.)
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October 7, 2011 at 9:45 am
Well, here we go again with our tit for tat…
Someone up above said “thousands” of women visit that memorial in Tennessee. I seriously say good for them, if that helps them. But, first of all remember that MILLIONS of women have had abortions and we never hear from the ones who are “okay.” Second, we can all go back and say we regret something we did but when you think about it, it was the right thing at that time. Geez, I regret going to one college that turned into a disaster versus going to that other college that may have turned out better.
Did you not make a decision and regret it later, but it was the right decision for you at that time?
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October 7, 2011 at 10:36 am
Yes I have made plenty of decisions that I later regretted. But when it comes to life and death decisions they cannot be put into the same category as a college mistake or even a marriage mistake. Choosing to kill one’s child is a decision that fits on no scale. It is often devastating at worst and regretted at the least. When Kate pretends as if there are no repercussions or that any repercussions are the result of pro-life pressure, religion, or lying memories it is an insult to any woman who has been through the devastation of abortion and minimizes her pain and grief. Kate likes to talk about pro-lifers ling to women. Why then does she insist on giving them false information saying that abortions are not devastating to many women? Why does she deny this so adamantly when proof of the opposite is readily available? If there is no devastation in abortion why do some clinics offer post abortion counseling? Why are organizations that offer post abortion healing thriving? Why are there books full of testimonies of women who have regretted and or been devastated by abortion? Why are clinic workers coming out one after the other and saying “we lied to the women” and “it’s not like we portray it ?”
Are all of these people crazy liars brainwashed by religion or is there something to what they are saying in spite of Kate’s denials? Common sense and logic tells you that if a woman kills her child she WILL suffer to some degree unless she buries the pain so deep that she becomes cold and angry. Every woman who has ever had an abortion, no matter if she admits it or not, knows full well that she killed her offspring (How do I know? Logic!). It has to be hard for her on some level. She needs our help in dealing with the pain not for us to continually deny that it exists. That helps no one except the one who wants to continue to bury her head in pretense.
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October 9, 2011 at 7:43 am
This is interesting, Voice, because off the top of my head I can think of five women that I know personally very well. They had abortions and they tell me that they have never regretted what they did and now three of them have children. Oh, and the women knew that they were terminating a pregnancy. They weren’t naive.
With all due respect, how the heck can you suggest that EVERY woman who has had an abortion AT LEAST regrets it?
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October 9, 2011 at 9:12 am
It’s the womans instinct to care for her offspring and protect it. Abortion is the opposite of that. If she has no problem with it then she has either believed the “potential person” lie and has therefore suppressed the thoughts about her baby. Or she has buried them to protect her emotions. But then again you may be right and I may be wrong. The Bible does say that in the last days before Jesus returns people will “loose their natural affections”. That would make what you and Kate make sense. If a mother ‘looses” her natural affection to the point that she can kill her own child and it not bother her then the only thing that would explain it is that verse.
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October 9, 2011 at 9:30 am
Hey v, now you’re scaring me!
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October 9, 2011 at 12:10 pm
If it’s a “woman’s instinct” to care and “protect” their infants, how do you explain child abuse or the cases where a woman throws her newborn into a trash can?
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October 9, 2011 at 1:59 pm
Those are aberrations, too, and they happen more frequently now that we may kill those youngsters.
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October 7, 2011 at 12:24 pm
When you perceived abortion as a tragedy, you will naturally frame all your discourse about abortion accordingly. But for millions of women, abortion is a good course of action, a morally justified decision. For millions of women, abortion becomes one of many options that they will face in their lifetime. Terminating a pregnancy, ending the potential, is just that–a potential. It’s not the high drama that some like to portray–killing your own child, ripping its arms and legs off. Yes, the embryo/fetus/baby is killed. That’s a choice a woman is entitled to make. And when she chooses abortion, she does so with full knowledge of the implications of her choice. It’s a choice where the woman respects her own life over the potential.
And while there are a minority of people who judge abortion as catastrophic, who choose to wallow in shame and fear, they are a minority. The good news is that there are reputable studies that indicate that those women who have post abortion sequelae were women who had pre-existing mental health issues. And as I said before, there is newly emerging evidence of memories being mutable. Influences from others, such as the morbid, shame-mongers who troll the streets outside abortion clinic, can impact the memory revisions.
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October 7, 2011 at 12:46 pm
” It’s not the high drama that some like to portray–killing your own child, ripping its arms and legs off. Yes, the embryo/fetus/baby is killed.”
But Kate, you contradict yourself in your own words. The baby/embryo/fetus IS KILLED BRUTALLY and yes after about the 8 week period (when the majority of abortions take place, 8-12 weeks) it’s arms and legs ARE ripped off because they are formed at that point.You know that Kate! Why do you pretend otherwise?. You want to live in this fantasy world that the only thing being aborted is a 4 week embryo. No Kate! As bad as that is why do you ignore the 16 week fetus’, and the 21 week ones, and the 24 week ones? Does that make it easier for you? These ARE getting their limbs ripped off. It is not a “potential” life or a “potential” human. It IS A HUMAN LIFE that dies by being ripped apart. Ignore it if you will but that does not change what happens.
“who choose to wallow in shame and fear”
Once again, you insult the very women that you claim to represent. Do you think their pain is a choice? Do you think they “wallow” in it on purpose? No, they do it because their grief is overwhelming. Have you ever felt the grief of a loss Kate?What if someone said that you were “choosing to wallow in it”. You never cease to amaze me at the callousness in your heart. What if those women you escort into the clinic knew what you REALLY think about their decision with all your joking about head crushing and minimizing their pain? Shameful! Absolutely Shameful! You are so hell bent on proving that abortion is ok that you forgot to give a crap about the very woman and her soon to be dead baby that you escort into the clinic. Wow! Do yourself a favor Kate and try to think past your agenda and actually see a person again.
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October 9, 2011 at 7:46 am
For the record, Voice is correct. At some point, during a D&E, forceps are used to dismember the fetus. It’s a sad and not too pretty situation. Still, a million women – but I guess they were ALL lied to, they ALL were naive, they ALL now regret what they did because they ALL had no idea what an abortion was. Or are ALL women just incredibly stupid?????
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October 9, 2011 at 9:14 am
I agree Pat, I think that most know what they are doing but I also believe that most regret it and struggle with grief and shame at least to some degree. The ones who are honest with themselves will admit that.
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October 9, 2011 at 12:13 pm
But, Voice, you say you “believe” that most regret it. Out of the one million women a year who get abortions, give me an idea of how many of them regret it. I am willing to admit that there are women who do come to regret it. Are you willing to admit that there may be women out there who were totally “okay” with their decision and are not emotional basket cases? Or is the argument just so black and white. Are you folks just so right and we are so wrong?
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October 9, 2011 at 7:12 pm
No, I admit that there are some who are ok with it but it is unnatural for them to be ok with it.
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February 9, 2014 at 4:30 am
19 5I watched this last night. The arootibn industry is shrouded in secrecy and deception the light needs to shine into this darkness. While I appreciate that you need to recoup the cost of making the film, if you really want the word to get out, you have to capitalize on the age of social networking and let this go viral.
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October 7, 2011 at 12:31 pm
What I think might be happening with the prolifers, male or female, either here on this blog or outside clinics is that they see childbirth as the ultimate value of a woman’s life. They fetishize the fetus such that the prolife mantra morphs into a pro-fetus mantra, virtually eliminating the needs or concerns or desires of the woman. They chant that they love them both, woman and fetus/child but their message is “who cares what you want, don’t be selfish, keep the baby, give it up for adoption, be a good mommy, abortion is murder, God is offended by abortion.” And if you look at the majority of active prolifers, they are reproductive has-beens, no longer fertile, no longer the center of their child’s life, often obsessed with babies. And while there’s nothing wrong with being crazy about your children, for many women they are not the center of their universe.
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October 7, 2011 at 12:54 pm
“What I think might be happening with the prolifers, male or female, either here on this blog or outside clinics is that they see childbirth as the ultimate value of a woman’s life. They fetishize the fetus such that the prolife mantra morphs into a pro-fetus mantra, virtually eliminating the needs or concerns or desires of the woman. ”
Really Kate? No. what is happening is that we want to HELP the woman avoid the worst mistake of her life, one that she will most likely regret and even torture herself over, from people like you who have a point to prove or money to make at the woman’s expense. Not to mention that we don’t want the baby to die. It’s that simple Kate! No need in complicating it. You pretend to care about the woman but then magically when she crosses the clinic threshold and goes through with the abortion and then regrets it you are done with her and she is a whining sniveling weak person who “chooses to wallow in their shame and fear.” Yeah,, you care bunches about your agenda. It’s the agenda that you support and the agenda that you love. You care nothing for the women. Stop pretending!
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October 7, 2011 at 2:02 pm
Sorry, voice, but abortion is NOT the worst mistake of a woman’s life nor is it a mistake for the majority of women. While you have an easy time targeting me, you’d be lost in the millions of people who wholesale disagree with you and your cohorts. The majority of Americans still approve of abortions, particularly in the early stages. There’s no pretending. It’s just facts.
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October 7, 2011 at 4:56 pm
The pretending is when you say that it is not torn apart and that the women don’t “mind” it. They are torn apart and to a HUGE number of women it is extremely difficult afterwards. Why do you try so hard to minimize that?
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October 9, 2011 at 7:48 am
The WORST MISTAKE OF THEIR LIFE???? Now, that is rather dramatic, wouldn’t you say? I just spoke to someone in my family and she says to tell you that you are full of “crap.” She says it was the right decision for her at the time and she now has a wonderful life. But I guess she’s the exception, huh?
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October 7, 2011 at 1:01 pm
“And if you look at the majority of active prolifers, they are reproductive has-beens, no longer fertile,”
Wrong again! Organizations like 40 Days For Life and Bound 4 Life and many others are filled with young adults. Statistically young adults are very active in the pro-life movement.
Speaking of “reproductive has beens”. I’ve seen your pics Kate. You are as old or older than most on here! Your reproductive years are over as well. Doesn’t that make you a has been? Maybe that’s where your abortion obsession comes from?
“And while there’s nothing wrong with being crazy about your children, for many women they are not the center of their universe.”
Chuckie, you want to know where the Ted Bundy’s come from? It’s this mindset! “You kid, I know I gave birth to you and all but you are NOT the center of my universe or what my life is about so get over yourself”.
Yeah, that makes for some real emotionally healthy adults!
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October 8, 2011 at 9:16 am
It’s important to imagine the fetus as something greater than it is in order to be a “hero” for it. voice obviously feels a need to be against brutality, violence, etc., but why not apply the concerns to real children?
Here’s why: if she chooses to protect migrant workers, teens suffering from STD’s or addiction, protestors on Wall Street or darter snails, she runs the risk of having people all across America hate her for defending illegal immigrants, worthless immoral kids and a species of useless fish that stands in the way of economic freedom for a hydro dam. All of a sudden, she’s got a lot more work on her hands than she bargained for!
BUT– if she undertakes to defend a fetus, it can’t do anything to make her job harder. And she can portray it any way she wants without having it prove her a liar. Its proto-humanity makes it an easy PR client; she can actually have fun developing its image as somebody just like you or me, so she can peddle her “humanitarian” work as easily as any charity does.
Furthermore, migrant workers and teens continue to be people– like Jack Abbott, whom Norman Mailer sprang from a life sentence for murder, they might do something really nasty after they’ve been “rescued.” But fetuses turn into real babies, which allows her a convenient stopping point, so she doesn’t have to take responsibility for what is done to them or by them, ever.
For this reason, I award voice the J.D. Autry Award, named for the first man executed after the Supreme Court reversed itself on the death penalty. He killed five people in a Texas convenience store. His parents hated each other while he was growing up, but stayed together “for the good of the kids.”
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October 8, 2011 at 9:21 am
Chuckie! Chuckie! Chuckie! We don’t “imagine” that the fetus is “more than it really is”. We KNOW full well that it is a human being. A human unborn baby. A child growing inside it’s mother. We don’t need resort to fantasies to sustain our agenda like you do with all of your “the unborn baby is a humanoid, earthworm, potential being spaceship talk.” Now that talk takes some exiting reality.
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October 10, 2011 at 4:11 am
I never thought it would happen but it’s true — Chuck is moving away from the “Ted Bundys.” Now it’s the “Jack Abbotts” whose life we’re saving. You will hear about this forty-two times during the next thirty days.
Actually I like Jack better because he reminds me of “that cabbage often mistaken for a rose,” Norman Mailer.
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March 1, 2013 at 9:23 am
BABIES are wonderful, they are medical miracles, yes. When you deliver them. Whether you can provide for them or decide to give them up for adoption. Also my kitties are miracles.
When an embryo is in my uterus and my life doesn’t allow me to do right after the baby that could result from that, or I don’t want kids, or I’m not emotionally stable to handle a pregnancy, it’s not a miracle. It’s not a blessing. It’s a situation that you have to figure out. It’s a BLESSING that women are so strong and they still manage to do the right thing for themselves, in the midst of all these judgemental ignorant people.
I can understand the incredible urge to become parents. I get that people think that having kids is a huge part of life worth living. In THEIR situation.
So, you keep handling your womb, I’ll handle mine.
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April 9, 2013 at 8:52 am
퍼가요.^^
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February 9, 2014 at 1:33 am
u know that any amount of aohocll on a fetous is a bad thing right?? but if u’v had a binge and not known u were pregnant then, hey, a lot of people do it and u prob havent done any damage, but im not a doctor so check at ur first midwife appointment?? but in answer to ur question YES. doh.
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