Decades from now, what will the historians say about the morality crusade? How will the movement, led by religiously hysterical conservatives be recorded? The movement of a minority, intending to pass laws impacting the majority population, certainly will be evaluated for its intended and unintended consequences. I’m arguing that the scribes of cultural movements will note, no doubt with regret, that the oppressive laws stimulated the growth of illegal activities. And in the footnotes, some historians will wryly add that many of those who championed the draconian laws were privately against them. I’m not talking about abortion (yet). I am talking about the campaign that was the essence of the mostly failed alcohol prohibition here in the United States. But the similarities between prohibition and the current morality movement against abortion are disconcertingly similar. While there are many to consider, here are just a few.
Culture
Prohibition was fueled by the grim reality that people were dying from extreme forms of alcoholism. The move from drinking beer and wine to guzzling distilled spirits created a nation of drunkards. Those who called for temperance believed it would reduce illness, absenteeism at work, accidents in cities and on farms and, generally, improve the moral character of our nation.
Abortions were available prior to Roe for women of means. For other women, abortions were illegal, unsafe and often deadly. Curiously, there was little to no concern about abortion until Roe. Once it passed, anti abortion sentiment was fueled by images of fetal remains that scavengers collected out of garbage bins and out of clinic freezers. This sentiment was furthered with the misnamed partial birth abortion frenzy debated by hysterical and uninformed legislators. Current anti abortion turmoil has extended to legislation impacting clinic facilities. It’s really a bit of irony to think how similar this is to what finally nailed the coffin on alcohol. Rather than anti drinking campaigns, the anti saloon league worked better by closing all the saloons. It’s conceivable that current legislation might be headed in the same direction to not make abortion inconvenient but to make access impossible by closing clinics.
And when the cultural history of celebrities in the United States is written, the books will note the prohibition stars like Al Capone and Lucky Luciano, and the abortion celebrities like Abby Johnson and Troy Newman. They will be featured as single-issue stars who rose to fame then burned out.
Politics
Women were central figures in public protests against drinking alcohol. While the initial movement urged a form of moderation that came from a sincere desire within, rather than a forced decision, the women’s temperance groups eventually urged absolute abstinence.
Women continue to be central figures in public praying and protests outside abortion clinics. Being faithful heterosexuals, they also urge abstinence from sex until marriage.
Prohibition lobbying attracted single-issue voters like abortion attracts single-issue voters. Like Prohibition, the movement toward the repeal of Roe v Wade was started by Republicans and joined, later, by a few conservative Democrats.
Religion
Prohibition was energized by religious fervor, especially Protestants. Abortion is both a Protestant and Catholic issue in general. In the minority, Evangelicals and Fundamentalist Protestants and conservative Catholics have been vocal opponents of Roe.
Language
Prohibition gave our nation new terms like bootlegger, scofflaw, teetotaler, the drys and the wets, and rum running. Legal abortion has provided new vocabulary terms like anti, choice, prolife, and partial birth.
The above are just a few of the similarities between prohibition and abortion. The people who believed in prohibition thought that government could make life better. It’s no different than those who believe the government should overturn Roe to make our nation a more moral nation. But, like those who thought the government had no right to interfere with alcohol consumption, there are those, a majority, who believe that government has no place in legislating morality, including abortion. Prohibition was a failed social experiment that ignited organized crime, killed thousands of innocent citizens in the name of morality and law, and during the period leading to WWI, linked booze with anti-German war propaganda.
It stands to reason that if abortion is outlawed, there will be similar unintended consequences, some quite deadly.
May 24, 2012 at 5:19 am
If you can force yourself to slog through the muck, you’ll find it’s deja vu all over again — this week on the abortion.ws blog Kate Ranieri equates repeal of our right to drink alcohol to repeal of our right to kill young people. No matter how absurd one shows a particular pro-killing argument to be, bet that it will resurface. Look, for the thousandth time, drinking alcohol is good; killing people is bad.
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May 24, 2012 at 7:53 am
“killing people is bad.” C’mon, John, don’t tell me you are against the death penalty or that you would kill someone in an instant if they were attacking your grandchild. and, of course, I’m sure you supported the war in Vietnam.
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May 24, 2012 at 8:42 am
Pat! Don’t play dumb with me! I’m dumber than you are! OK — drinking a moderate amount of alcohol is good; killing innocent people is bad.
Vietnam, yes, but that was the last war I supported. That one really was between two equals, us and Russia. In the ones since, we’ve been bully-boys.
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May 24, 2012 at 8:18 am
Drinking alcohol is implicitly a globally “Good” endeavor John?
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May 24, 2012 at 8:43 am
I wish I could understand what you write, Asi. As I say, I might agree with you.
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May 24, 2012 at 8:24 am
John, from the last article I read you were happy about innocent people being killed and murdered (did you really burn an American flag to celebrate a murderer?) . . . Why is there a disconnect in your cognition each time you post? Your beliefs and opinions appear to be simply malleable detritus. Are you not well?
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May 24, 2012 at 8:46 am
Asi, from the last post I read you were happy about innocent people being killed and murdered (did you really hitch yourself to the pro-death wagon?) . . . Why is there a disconnect in your cognition each time you post? Your beliefs and opinions appear to be simply malleable detritus. Are you not well?
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May 24, 2012 at 11:24 am
John is transparent as he SPAMs this site as he used to. Sad that he has no wit at all, and cannot reply intelligently.
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May 24, 2012 at 11:47 am
Elana is transparent as she can no longer erase (or can she) me when I respond to a stupid with a stupid on this site, as she used to. Sad that she has no wit at all, and cannot reply intelligently.
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May 24, 2012 at 11:29 am
Why is this nutty anti abortion John just copying what other people say? Doesn’t he have his own brain?
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May 24, 2012 at 11:48 am
see above
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June 3, 2012 at 6:51 am
“Dunkle” doesn’t like to overload his “pea”brain too much!?!? That’s why he never has an original thought…
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June 3, 2012 at 9:11 am
“LDM” doesn’t like to overload her “pea” brain too much!?!? That’s why she never has an original thought…
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May 24, 2012 at 8:18 am
Situation Normal
Dunkle ignoring the point of the article– that there are unintended consequences to legislating morals.
As an aside, in a Q & A with John several years ago, I asked him why he wasn’t’ concerned about our military killing innocent [born] children in Iraq and Afghanistan. His callously depraved response, to value the fetus over the born child, was not at all surprising. Like so many anti abortion zealots, John’s sense of American hegemony and xenophobia is matched only by his dogmatic perspective on reproductive justice.
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May 24, 2012 at 8:56 am
Situation Normal
Kate ignoring the point of the response– that there are unintended consequences to the equating the legislating of morals because some “morals” are bad (killing kids) and some are morals are good (drinking alcohol).
As an aside, in a Q & A with Kate several years ago, I asked her why she wasn’t’ concerned about killing a million of our young people here. Why did she ignore that and focus only on the hundreds of children killed in a horrible military venture abroad. Her callously depraved response, to value the born child over the preborn child, was not at all surprising. Like so many pro-death zealots, Kate’s sense of American hegemony and xenophobia is matched only by her dogmatic perspective on reproductive justice.
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May 24, 2012 at 1:07 pm
this tripe doesn’t even make sense, John.
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May 24, 2012 at 1:54 pm
That tripe didn’t even make sense, Kate.
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May 24, 2012 at 8:19 am
I’m delighted I found this blog. This article post especially. It is so well written and supports the point with fabulous clarity.
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May 24, 2012 at 8:56 am
over the top
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May 24, 2012 at 11:31 am
Asiana, I agree, this is about the best Blog out there. There always is the occasional anti abortion screwball, but no one takes them seriously.
Don’t forget to vote this November!!
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May 24, 2012 at 11:35 am
no one takes him seriously
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May 24, 2012 at 11:57 am
John,
Are you seriously as dimwitted as you write?
Why not respond like a person with knowledge?
The people here that reflect on your incapacity to understand basic concepts are very believable when you behave like you do. Why are so many Anti Abortion advocates like yourself so incapable of answering questions (because you do not have answers?).
I guess if that’s what you are there is no use responding to you to try and get an intelligent or literate reply . . . that is the message You send as you represent you failing cause.
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May 24, 2012 at 1:56 pm
Karl,
Are you seriously as dimwitted as you write?
Why not respond like a person with knowledge?
The people here that reflect on your incapacity to understand basic concepts are very believable when you behave like you do. Why are so many Anti Life advocates like yourself so incapable of answering questions (because you do not have answers?).
I guess if that’s what you are there is no use responding to you to try and get an intelligent or literate reply . . . that is the message You send as you represent you failing cause.
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May 24, 2012 at 1:06 pm
one thing that prohibition illustrated was that we were a nation of hypocrites–banning alcohol but drinking illegally…just like hypocritical anti abortion protesters who claim to be against abortion until their daughters need one…then it’s a *special case*
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May 24, 2012 at 2:02 pm
Don’t be so quick to dismiss the effects of prohibition, Kate. The law breakers, then, were a small minority, but as usual they got all the publicity. My parents, for example, believed alcohol was poison till the day they died and there were millions like them. The law is a powerful teacher.
Therefore, you might be right about that other. For forty-two years the law has been telling us that it is OK to kill others. So I wouldn’t be surprised if even “prolifers” believed it.
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May 24, 2012 at 2:58 pm
You’re wrong about the lawbreakers being a minority. Obviously you haven’t done much research. Millions of Americans drank straight through prohibition, in small towns and big cities. Organized crime ensured the manufacture, distribution and sale of alcohol. Bureaucrats drank from local police chiefs to mayor to those in the White House. All a bunch of hypocrites and law breakers. Big deal. This country tried to legislate morality then as they are now with women’s reproductive health. That legislation failed then and it will fail again if Roe is overturned.
You can’t legislate morality without being brought to your knees now and then.
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May 24, 2012 at 3:57 pm
Laws prohibiting pederasty and uxoricide, and permitting feticide, legislate morality, don’t they. As a matter of fact all laws legislate morality. Rely on cliches and they’ll bite you.
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May 25, 2012 at 7:49 am
You know, John, if I didn’t know better, I’d say you have an issue with pederasty because you use it so often. Something you care to share?
On another note, I’d not be so quick to say ALL laws are based on morality, unless you broadly define morality. Laws requiring taxes, laws where there is no parking allowed, and laws about speed limits on the highways do not seem to be based on morality.
The point I was making is that laws that impact the majority, as women are a majority, will fail just as laws impacting the overwhelming majority of the nation who drank alcohol.
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May 25, 2012 at 8:08 am
Too much here for me to handle — shorten it.
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June 3, 2012 at 7:08 am
I would be rich if I had $100 for every time a women said, “My daughter isn’t like “these” women”!! I use to say..Oh! I’m sorry I thought she had an appt. for an abortion!! They use to look at me like….what??? I know what you mean Kate!!
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September 23, 2013 at 7:08 pm
Have you ever thought about wriintg an e-book or guest authoring on other blogs? I have a blog centered on the same information you discuss and would love to have you share some stories/information. I know my audience would enjoy your work. If you’re even remotely interested, feel free to shoot me an e-mail.
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May 24, 2012 at 2:17 pm
For those who have been spammed by Sir Spamalot, consider that he, John Dunkle, has the great virtue of being unintelligible
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May 24, 2012 at 3:49 pm
But I think I’m learning what “spammed” means. It means copied. Why not just stick with the old word that old guys like me can understand.
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May 25, 2012 at 7:51 am
You use pederasty, uxoricide, and feticide and suggest others use copy instead of spam? Surely you jest.
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May 25, 2012 at 8:02 am
gotta explain this one
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May 26, 2012 at 4:16 pm
jajajajajaja @ sir spamalot
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May 24, 2012 at 2:52 pm
These social costs of prohibition include: the creation of a large black market run by criminal gangs, the scale of which increased over time; conspicuous police corruption by black market participants; increased violence in some large cities arising from illicit markets; increased public concern about the open violation of the law; increasing costs and intrusiveness of Federal law enforcement; and decreased public support for prohibition.
I wonder what the social costs of prohibiting abortion will be? Surely there will increased deaths of women, children left without a mother, husbands without wives, organizations without strong leadership if women die from sepsis or botched abortions, employers left without employees, families who lose female relatives, a black market of unskilled abortionists (as opposed to licensed physicians), and a regime where snitching on women and abortion providers is rampant (like snitches during Hoover’s reign during prohibition). Just some additional thoughts about the similarities.
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May 24, 2012 at 3:51 pm
Lots of similarities but a huge difference.
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February 8, 2014 at 9:23 am
I guess it may not be these few days becasue the huge trevonur and seems unlited selling force(the 945 is not allow to short sell in HK)seems the traditianl fund managing their portfolio,, i guess the stock price will become steady after week,, i will try to involve around one month before the Q3 result announce,, what every one comment?
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May 25, 2012 at 2:54 pm
Here’s some questions for anti choice legislators:
http://www.trustwomenpac.org/2012/05/10-questions-for-anti-choice-legislators/
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May 25, 2012 at 8:03 pm
Kate, how come all these people talk like you?
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May 26, 2012 at 2:34 pm
Why cannot you just simply answer the questions, at least one. Why do you feel as though we are murderers? I have never killed anyone, but your reign of people have, its not fair, it was not right and it just hurts innocent lives, not like the ones “Taken” from the earth as so many of you put it.
Those lives would not have had great up bringing, would you have rather had another girl end up in the hands of someone who does not care for them?
and why dont you think about, debate, and understand more crucial issues? why is this your devolution, i mean devotion?
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May 26, 2012 at 3:11 pm
Then please just ask one. I had to stop past “murderers” because that’s one. I didn’t read the rest yet.
So let me respond to that one: I neither feel nor think you pro-deathers are murderers. Killers and killers’ helpers, sure, but murderers? Legally you are not now. Morally? God knows. I don’t.
The kid of course is tracked down and tortured to death, murdered. But who’s responsible? Don’t get me going on that one.
I’ll look at the rest later.
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May 26, 2012 at 7:52 pm
I shouldn’t have bothered.
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February 10, 2014 at 9:43 pm
Thanks for writing your opioinns. Being blogger, I am often trying to find new and different tips on how to think about a topic. I actually get fantastic motivation in doing so. Thank you so much again
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May 26, 2012 at 3:38 pm
John does not get it. Data and history is clear. Attempts to ban things that many people want do not work. If only a few people want them then the bans and law can work. Prohibition did NOT work, John’s relatives not withstanding (my grandfather used a bathtub for his alcohol).
Data shows that abortion rates worldwide do not vary significantly it is legal or not. What does vary is the quality of care. So, John, do you want legal abortion and the vast majority of patients not have problems (aside: mortality rate for women full term is six times higher than for abortions in the first two trimesters according to CD data). OR do you want it illegal and many very serious medical problem. There is not third choice. The number of dead fetuses will NOT differ significantly either way. So, big boy, what do you pick?
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May 26, 2012 at 7:58 pm
My pick is to make it illegal to kill innocent people, the junk you’ve invented to support your pick to continue to kill them notwithstanding.
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May 26, 2012 at 9:33 pm
But it’s not YOUR pick. You are not a woman. You have NO vote.
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May 27, 2012 at 4:10 am
Then it’s not yours either. You’re not a baby anymore.
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May 27, 2012 at 9:58 am
Once again you make no sense. A ‘baby’ has no choice either. Let’s be clear that prochoice folks do not want to make choices for women. It is the women who make the choices. Not mine. And certainly not the likes of you, your anti abortion terrorist friends, and other assorted trolls.
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May 27, 2012 at 4:42 pm
You’re right, Kate, the young person has no choice. I try to make for her the one she would obviously choose.
You and your pro-abortion terrorist friends help to force something horrible on her
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May 26, 2012 at 4:15 pm
while i don’t equate abortion and drinking by any means, i think kate did a great job on showing the relation between the principles of prohibition and the legal restrictions on abortion.
i think that the unintended consequences of one of those personhood proposals if they should pass would be horrendous!
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May 26, 2012 at 8:01 pm
How can you say this, Rog? If those “personhood proposals” had not been done away with forty years ago, your son would still be alive.
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May 26, 2012 at 9:33 pm
Of all the despicable things you’ve done and said, John Dunkle, this is below a snake’s belly.
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May 27, 2012 at 9:34 am
Maybe it’s because I’m from New York but I do think that since Rogie has talked about it, he is “open game” for the likes of John. I dont like it, but…
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May 27, 2012 at 9:33 am
You are assuming, John, that Rogie would not have resorted to an illegal abortion, which is something that pro-lifers just seem to conveniently forget about.
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May 27, 2012 at 4:35 pm
You’re closing in here, Pat, on the biggest of all pro-death lies — legalizing abortion did not increase their numbers much. The truth is it increased them astronomically.
As legalizing anything does. See American slavery, see German antisemitism, see Prohibition. See what happens when they legalize marijuana.
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May 28, 2012 at 6:53 am
Once again, John, your logic is failing. Illegal abortions were not tracked by the CDC or any other organization. So to say that abortion increased astronomically is a dateless argument, aka, an opinion and an outrageous one at that.
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May 28, 2012 at 5:03 pm
Maybe, Kate, there are no statistics that can prove it but there is no way that there were one million illegal abortions a year, as there are legal abortions these days.
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May 27, 2012 at 10:00 am
I do not equate abortion with drinking either. But I do find amazing correspondence between both when people choose to legislate morality.
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May 28, 2012 at 2:47 pm
John, I did not “invent” anything. The date shows that abortion rates worldwide do not vary significantly country to country, legal or not (Russia is the only outlier). Ask yourself what would Jesus do? I do not believe he would agree with your position.
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May 28, 2012 at 3:05 pm
Boy, you won’t give it up, will you. Look. A few guys drive 100 mph. Make it legal and that number would increase a thousand fold. That’s just the way it is. Why do you insist, and not just you, Kate, on arguing for the absurd?
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May 28, 2012 at 5:04 pm
I hate to say this, but I gotta agree with John on this one. Ugh….
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May 30, 2012 at 10:50 am
I disagree based on criteria from transportation literature that suggests that there are deterrents to speeding just like there were deterrents to self-abortions and chop-shop abortions. Simply arguing from anecdotal evidence or opinion does not make your argument valid.
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May 30, 2012 at 10:55 am
Wish I was smart so I could understand stuff like this.
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