On the previous blog by my friend, “Blogginfem,” an interesting discussion ensued about the use of graphic images by pro-life and pro-choice advocates. We are all very familiar with the images of “aborted fetuses” that appear at pro-life rallies and protests. In response, the pro-choice folks tend to discount the photos, suggesting that they are really “only” miscarriages, that the fetus is too far formed, that’s it’s a fetus that was found in Canada, as if that makes a difference. At the same time, there are the images of women lying in a pool of their own blood after attempting to self abort. The pro-lifers then dutifully pooh pooh the images as well.
The discussion made me wonder if these images have any kind of effect on the abortion debate?
Let’s take the fetus pictures first. I’ll be honest. In the years that I represented abortion providers, I never looked very closely at those pictures. First of all, I get grossed out pretty easily. I can’t watch horror movies, don’t like the sight of blood, don’t look at pictures of the kids starving in the Sudan. So, I’ve never really examined those photos for “accuracy.” But the bottom line is that I have seen in person the results of a late second trimester abortion and some of those pictures displayed by pro-lifers look pretty darn close to what I’ve seen in person. Let’s face it – abortion is not pretty and pro-choicers would be better off just admitting that at some point in the pregnancy the fetus is rather well-developed and, despite that, the abortion doctor is still going to do what the woman has asked him to do. Yes, the vast, vast majority of abortions are performed in the first trimester but the pro-lifers are doing what any other interest group in the country does – they focus on the extreme.
Today, when you go to a pro-life event, there’s always someone holding these graphic pictures (and they are usually the octogenarians in the movement) and it’s possible that someone who is passing by might be disturbed enough to “convert” right on the spot. But the battle over abortion rights will be fought in the middle and without having conducted some kind of poll, my gut tells me that when someone who hasn’t given the issue much thought sees these pictures, their first reaction is probably to avoid looking at it and their second reaction is total disgust that a group of perhaps well-meaning advocated forced them (and perhaps the children in the car) to be dragged into this very difficult issue. And that’s where I think the pro-lifers are making a strategic mistake. Indeed, at the last few protests I’ve attended, I’ve seen fewer signs like these. Perhaps their movement is getting smarter.
I’ll write about the use of “pro-choice” signs in the future but, for now, I think advocates of abortion rights should just stop wasting time on this particular issue. First of all, it’s free speech. The signs may be ugly, they may not represent the “normal” abortion, they may even be inaccurate. But they are protected by the First Amendment. Second, their use might be actually working against the pro-life movement. And, third, we are always quick to argue that abortion is a woman’s choice. Well, it’s a woman’s choice to look at the picture or not. I trust women to be able to sort out the truth and to make the right decision.
Related articles
- So This is Choice? | Live Action News & Opinion (amhec.wordpress.com)
- Which side of the abortion debate is uncomfortable with evidence? (winteryknight.wordpress.com)
- The Roots of the Abortion Debate (wellspentjourney.wordpress.com)




July 8, 2012 at 6:21 pm
Shoop, guess I’ll just let my posters gather more dust.
LikeLike
July 8, 2012 at 6:52 pm
Why stop now Johnny Boy?
You have been intimidating innocent women for years.
Why would you stop?
What grades did you teach when you were a school teacher?
I did not see you answer that question Johnny Boy.
LikeLike
July 8, 2012 at 7:21 pm
Why stop now Johnny Boy? I’m not stopping, K. I’m trying to decide if I should display again my graphic signs.
You have been intimidating innocent women for years. I try, but I’m not a good intimidater. But innocent! Objectively speaking, someone who helps kill someone else is not innocent.
Why would you stop? true
What grades did you teach when you were a school teacher? all of ’em.
I did not see you answer that question Johnny Boy. ?
LikeLike
July 9, 2012 at 11:04 am
Are you really wondering if you should display your signs any more? Aren’t they almost surgically attached to your arm?
LikeLike
July 9, 2012 at 1:31 pm
I display two these days: 1 — WHY DO CATHOLICS AND JEWS, BUT NOT MUSLIMS, KILL THEIR CHILDREN? 2 — A KILLER LIVES HERE
Oh yeah, and in front of Jen’s house, I do show the head of a tortured-to-death young person.
Every so often I switch to others.
LikeLike
July 10, 2012 at 11:20 am
How could I forget my favorite: HOW CAN SOMEONE P U L L THE ARMS AND LEGS OFF A LITTLE GIRL?
LikeLike
July 9, 2012 at 5:24 pm
So you were indoctrinating young schoolchildren into your intellectually absent demented world?
That is child abuse.
Why did you force your beliefs in the classroom about an issue like abortion on Children?
What right do you claim to brainwash other people’s children Johnny Baby Boy?
LikeLike
July 9, 2012 at 6:42 pm
stoopit
LikeLike
July 10, 2012 at 8:41 am
Actually it is a very valid and relevant question Johnny Boy.
If you are not up to the ask of answering the questions, by default we can only make our own presumption of why you are not answering – and that answer is not a favorable one for you.
Johnny Boy you are the wiggly worm of answers you always portray yourself as.
LikeLike
July 10, 2012 at 8:55 am
stoopit, stoopit, stoopit
LikeLike
July 10, 2012 at 8:57 am
The only thing that is stupid is your lack of ability to reply to good questions that reveal what you are.
LikeLike
July 9, 2012 at 5:25 pm
Inferior Johnny Boy, did you tell the children how you yelled at innocent women at doctor’s offices when you had no idea why the women were there?
LikeLike
July 9, 2012 at 8:03 pm
stoopit, stoopit
LikeLike
July 10, 2012 at 8:43 am
Another valid question that Poor Little Johnny Boy won’t answer.
The reason is the answer shows how pathetic he is.
He has screamed at women going into a doctors office who were just getting a routine visit, breast exam, pap smear, a blood draw, etc.
Johnny Boy cannot admit the obvious harm he has caused others.
What a wimp of an entity Johnny Boy is.
LikeLike
July 10, 2012 at 8:55 am
Hopeless. I give up.
LikeLike
July 10, 2012 at 9:00 am
Of course you give up.
That is how you avoid answering the questions that reveal the harm you have caused so many innocent people. You conscience cannot live with the truth. Your redemption depends on you getting rid of your Satan Pride and answer the questions.
Your eternity depends on your honesty with yourself. It appears you are not willing to do that. When Judgement Day comes for you, and from looking at your pictures it does not look like it will be long, I think you are going to get the thumb down.
So, why not dig deep into your mind and be honest for a change?
LikeLike
July 10, 2012 at 9:01 am
It is so obvious when John responds with stoop it he is just playing games to avoid the question. He ends up being the one that seems the dumbest of the crowd.
LikeLike
July 10, 2012 at 9:39 am
Dunkle gives up because he cannot match the incredible Intellectual and Mighty Cognitive Power of people that support Women and their access to Abortion.
The Anti Abort mind is weak and polluted by magical thinking, moral corruption, and deep seated evil religious based misogyny.
LikeLike
July 10, 2012 at 10:15 am
These anti-Dunkle excoriations are amateurish. If you want to read a pro, get hold of Kathy Kuhn’s stuff.
LikeLike
July 11, 2012 at 9:55 am
It sounds like the real excoriations were of the schoolchildren by you John and the women you scream at and intimidate on a near daily basis.
Why not answer the simple questions?
When you evade them as everyone says it implies you did very bad things to children.
You can easily solve that by just being honest for once. Or were you lying again when you said you told schoolchildren about Abortion?
Which way was it?
And what schools did you teach at?
It should be a matter of public record anyway . . . ?
LikeLike
July 11, 2012 at 4:09 pm
amateurish
LikeLike
February 8, 2014 at 7:56 pm
Heya this is somewhat of off topic but I was wtnniag to know if blogs use WYSIWYG editors or if you have to manually code with HTML. I’m starting a blog soon but have no coding experience so I wanted to get advice from someone with experience. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
LikeLike
July 9, 2012 at 8:17 am
Karl,
Quite demeaning of you to use the word BOY. I can only assume you would like to call our colored brethren boy also. This really sheds light on what kind of person you really are. Always looking for trouble. Do you have any desire at all to have a conversation without attacking a person?
Let’s look at Pat’s article which is quite good. I found many valuable insights into the logic of the pro-life movement.
LikeLike
July 9, 2012 at 11:05 am
Wow, William, I did not take the use of “boy’ in the way you did. Do you, William, and you, Karl, know each other? Do you all know Dunkle?
LikeLike
February 8, 2014 at 10:41 pm
Help, I’ve been informed and I can’t become igtaronn.
LikeLike
July 9, 2012 at 5:28 pm
William clearly knows very little.
A person that worships convicted murderers of innocent people is not a good person.
I only called him Johnny Boy as he is called that by many others and never seems to mind. And he rarely calls others by their real name, so he does not seem to mind the freedom of that expression.
William are you mentally stable?
It sounds like you might be a little on the nutty side as well as the misogynist.
Are you a Misogynist also?
LikeLike
July 9, 2012 at 5:32 pm
William,
Thank you.
You like Dunkle, have served me well as one of my favorite minions.
You will be rewarded in my Kingdom of Eternal Inferno.
LikeLike
July 9, 2012 at 6:48 pm
“You like Dunkle,” Yo, S! Just because he agrees with me doesn’t mean he has to like me.
LikeLike
July 10, 2012 at 6:00 am
Wow, John talks directly to Satan!
LikeLike
July 10, 2012 at 8:45 am
He probably has a direct Red Hotline to the Master of All Demons . . .
Dunkle certainly treats women the way Satan would ask him too in my opinion.
LikeLike
July 10, 2012 at 8:57 am
to
LikeLike
July 10, 2012 at 9:02 am
Another tactic of a Dunkle Boy reply that shows no ability to reply with literacy.
LikeLike
July 10, 2012 at 9:09 am
Dunkle-Boy
LikeLike
July 11, 2012 at 9:56 am
Dunkle still cannot answer simple questions.
LikeLike
July 12, 2012 at 2:27 pm
Wrong. I still cannot answer simple-minded questions, or, questions from the simple-minded.
LikeLike
February 9, 2014 at 1:47 pm
Whats up are using WordPress for your blog platform? I’m new to the blog world but I’m triyng to get started and create my own. Do you require any html coding expertise to make your own blog? Any help would be really appreciated!
LikeLike
July 10, 2012 at 9:10 am
I would also like to know more about your activities in telling children about abortion when you were a school teacher.
Educate us John.
Please do not evade the question.
LikeLike
July 10, 2012 at 10:18 am
Really all great literature (poems, novels, short stories, novellas, essays, historical writings, etc.) is pro-life. I just pointed that out.
LikeLike
July 11, 2012 at 9:58 am
Again Dunkle is worthless as a commenter on a blog. No answers to simple questions that any literate or educated person could answer.
LikeLike
July 8, 2012 at 9:40 pm
Writing from Chicago, here, and responding to your question “Do these images matter?” NO, THEY ONLY MATTER TO THE CHOIR.
From 1974 to 2012, one lone protester has been a fixture outside Allentown Women’s Center. From their first location in 1974 to their second location in very late December 2003 to their current location beginning January 2012, Joe Kubich’s iconic image of Malachi (the image of the alleged 21 wk aborted fetus) has had the effect of offending but not stopping women. In fact, Joe admitted years ago that he has only had on success with his bloody sign. Of course, all he knew was that the woman left that day. As the counselors have so often said, the women are upset. But they return.
LikeLike
July 9, 2012 at 4:25 am
So Kates, the Windy City, now that’s appropriate.
LikeLike
July 9, 2012 at 5:30 pm
The moronic anti aborts of the world don’t accomplish anything.
Most of all they do not help innocent children alive, impoverished in their own community.
Bunch of Loser Cruisers!
LikeLike
July 9, 2012 at 6:52 pm
Try this, K: “they do not help innocent children to live,” or maybe you meant this: “they do not help innocent children, alive and impoverished in their own community.” I’m getting to like you, K. You feed a need.
LikeLike
July 10, 2012 at 8:46 am
Stoopit!
LikeLike
July 10, 2012 at 8:58 am
SPAM!
LikeLike
July 10, 2012 at 9:12 am
On top of all the other things you do not know it appears you do not understand what SPAM is, or the T & C’s of a blog.
LikeLike
July 10, 2012 at 10:19 am
Son-of-a-gun, I thought I’d learned that last week!
LikeLike
July 9, 2012 at 11:07 am
You’re right, Kate. Also, what I found in my experience is that women who did not want to walk the gauntlet just made an appointment to go to another clinic that didn’t have protestors. Sure, at times that meant that they had to travel further away but they sure as heck got their abortions….
LikeLike
July 9, 2012 at 6:14 pm
Or they returned in disguise or on a day when the clinic doesn’t normally due abortions—these folks think that just because Tues, Thurs, Fri and Sat are typical days for procedures that they don’t do abortions other days. Oh, well.
Most of us who volunteer also volunteer to drive women from their homes to the clinic and back…–Allentown, Philly, NJ… it’s an amazing network
LikeLike
July 9, 2012 at 6:54 pm
It is Satan’s world, after all.
LikeLike
July 10, 2012 at 6:03 am
John, that’s an interesting comment: “It’s Satan’s world.” Do you really believe that? Does that mean that Satan controls things and/or he is “winning?” Where is God in all of this?
LikeLike
July 10, 2012 at 8:47 am
You would Know best John.
Tell us more about your discussions with Satan . . .
LikeLike
July 10, 2012 at 9:00 am
Sure Satan controls the world. God was crucified here. Think God crucified himself?
LikeLike
July 10, 2012 at 9:05 am
And sure, God ultimately controls the world because he controls everything. But for whatever reason he decided to create beings in his image and likeness, which means beings with free will. Some, like Satan, choose not to follow him. Others are “pro-choice” too.
LikeLike
July 10, 2012 at 9:14 am
Written by my most favored and faithful servant.
John, you serve me well. You are especially good at disseminating misinformation.
I’m so proud of you.
You will soon sit by my side.
LikeLike
July 10, 2012 at 9:43 am
Instead of trying to write for Kate John, I would like to know what you were teaching your schoolchildren about Abortion.
What school(s) did you work at?
LikeLike
July 10, 2012 at 10:25 am
See above for the first part. Partial list of schools: St. Simon Stock, JHS 55, Andrew Jackson High School, Adelphi, Hofstra, College of New Rochelle, Penn State Berks.
LikeLike
July 10, 2012 at 12:07 pm
Who’s Hellboy, Chuck?
LikeLike
July 10, 2012 at 6:02 am
That is amazing that some of you drive women to where they need to go. That must be very interesting. Maybe you can share a story or two, Kate, in a future blog…
LikeLike
July 10, 2012 at 6:08 am
Good idea!
LikeLike
July 10, 2012 at 9:06 am
I know what she’ll say. Want me to write it for her, Pat?
LikeLike
July 10, 2012 at 6:07 am
Your title for this entry, “Do the pictures really matter?” reminds me of a protester who used paper clips to affix small cards to her sandals. The cards were imprinted with an image of fetal remains. After many attempts at getting women to look at her card, saying “this is what they’re going to do to your baby. They’re going to make it look like baby road-kill” she apparently decided to try another approach. Obviously, she thought the images mattered.
Another tool in this woman’s war on women was an apron with an image of an in utero fetal jesus wearing a crown of thorns. Try to wrap your head around that image. Better yet, try to imagine the wonky mind of the poor soul who created that image.
LikeLike
July 10, 2012 at 8:01 am
The woman who posted images of her abortion (thisismyabortion), bloody fluids in a suction jar, wrote this in the Guardian UK:
“Experiencing my own abortion and photographing the result was a sobering experience. As a woman, I reckon with the power of images every day. But after my abortion, I realised images are literally being used as a weapon to petrify and assault viewers into fear, shame, and isolation. The protesters’ heartless use of lifeless foetus images made me feel cheated, lied to and manipulated. It was just propaganda: intended to shake the core of my deepest biological, intellectual and emotional foundation.
Within 48 hours of launching thisismyabortion.com, I received a deluge of emails from men, women and couples all over the world confiding in me their own courageous and unique abortion stories. Some told tales of horrific self-inflicted abortions in countries where abortion remains illegal. Others expressed sincere gratitude for my documentation, either because it mirrored their own experiences of safe abortions or, in some cases, because they had always associated abortion with the same grotesque images I had encountered while entering the clinic.
I believe we are the majority, and we hold the power to demand the right to make educated choices for our bodies and our families. I hope thisismyabortion.com will be used as a tool to bring a fair, honest, balanced view of safe abortion. We, together, can take a stand for the truth, women’s rights and reproductive justice.”
LikeLike
July 10, 2012 at 9:08 am
Well, again, it is Satan’s world, you know.
LikeLike
July 10, 2012 at 9:45 am
Johnny Boy,
It appears you know about Satan’s world more than anyone.
Now back to your SchoolTeacher days.
1) What schools did you work at?
2) What did you teach children about Abortion as their School Teacher?
LikeLike
July 10, 2012 at 10:29 am
Satan, K, tries to get really close to those he hates most, like priests and nuns. So, you might be right. I answered 1 and 2 above.
LikeLike
July 10, 2012 at 5:05 pm
I have got to ask why and how you portray your self as a man of god, but in living in Satans world , seek to conform to many of his dirty deeds.
Do you not feel the adrenaline flowing when you incite a woman’s fears?
Do you not commit to the comprehension that the deed you are doing is actually what the devil wants?
LikeLike
July 10, 2012 at 6:03 pm
You’ve got four questions here, Smitty. I’m gonna rewrite three and answer all.
1 Why do you portray yourself as a man of God living in Satan’s world? That’s just the way it is.
2 Why do you cooperate in many of his dirty deeds? He’s often too tough for me to handle.
3 Do you not feel the adrenaline flowing when you incite a woman’s fears? no
4 Don’t you understand that the deeds you are doing are actually what the devil wants? No, he hates what I’m doing and is scared as hell I’ll do more. But he shouldn’t worry — see #2.
LikeLike
February 8, 2014 at 4:49 pm
Super ! J’adore ! Je roule assez souvent sous la pluie, tf4t le matin et dans la nuit ! Pensez e0 nous innetevr de belles sacoches e0 ve9lo rigides pour prote9ger les livres, le mate9riel photo ou les ordis ! je n’en trouve jamais aucun jolis (berk les grands magasins de sport, moche moche) ou pratiques (souvent souples, se ferment mal, pas de re9fle9chissants, etc.)e0 bientf4t
LikeLike
July 10, 2012 at 6:11 pm
Why do you do it then? If there is no adrenal response, no concordance to the elation one feels then what do you get out of it?
LikeLike
July 11, 2012 at 3:51 am
Hard to say. Your guess is a good as mine. All I know is I was shocked in 1970. Here, on my watch, we are killing kids legally. I’ll put a stop to that, I says. BS.
LikeLike
July 10, 2012 at 6:12 pm
John, sorry if you got confused I did not submit it anon.
LikeLike
July 11, 2012 at 8:54 am
An excerpt from Christianity Today
“People tend describe themselves as either pro-life or pro-choice. But a new poll by the Public Religion Research Institute (PRRI) shows that the average American still holds conflicting views on abortion nearly 40 years after Roe v. Wade. Evangelicals remain much more opposed to abortion than other Americans, but they, too, often do not fit neatly into pro-life or pro-choice camps.
PRRI Research Director Daniel Cox said, “For some time now, Americans have held a stable tension between two views: majorities both say that abortion is morally wrong and say that it should be legal in all or most cases. The binary ‘pro-life’ and ‘pro-choice’ labels don’t reflect this complexity.”
On the poll’s simplest, straightforward abortion question, a majority said abortion should be legal. PRRI found only four-in-ten said abortion should be illegal. However, few took a consistently pro-life or pro-choice position. Only 19 percent said abortion should be legal in all circumstances; 14 percent said it should be always be illegal.
****That leaves nearly two-thirds approving abortion in some cases but not in others.**** (emphasis added)
These results a similar to those by the Pew Research Center for the People and the Press. A similar question by Gallup finds fewer in the middle category, but overall the pattern is the same: most Americans approve of abortion in some, but not all, circumstances.
Among religious groups, white evangelicals stand out as being against abortion. Less than one-third (29 percent) said abortion should be legal; two-thirds believe it should be illegal.
****Support for the legality of abortion is much higher among other Protestants and Catholics.”**** (emphasis added)
LikeLike
July 11, 2012 at 9:37 am
Figures. As I keep saying, it’s Satan’s world. Still in The Windy City, Kate? Bet that’s where you’ll end up. Feels like home, right?
LikeLike
July 14, 2012 at 10:28 am
Anonymous at #5: Here’s what Mr. Dunkle gets out of it:
In order for anything to live, something else must die. It is the basic rule of life. Life as we know it cannot exist without the deaths of tons of vegetable matter, hundrds if not thousands of animals and the hundreds and thousands of parasitic and predatory species that would use our bodily systems and components for their own prosperity. Mr. Dunkle, like the rest of us, is aware of this.
The only answer to this constant presence of death is caring for the liviing things of this– through respect for that which we kill in order to live, through support of the sick and feeble whom we might never know, and through the nurture and encouragement of those we do know. Mr. Dunkle might be aware of this.
Caring for others is very hard, often demanding much more than we can afford to give of time, money, talents and personal plans.
Being against Death is a lot easier.
So when it comes to caring for others, the easy way out is to be against Death but make it look as though one is acting out of care.
This is why when I point out what real children need to lead a fairly normal life and point out that Mr. Dunkle doesn’t do any of those things, he retorts along the lines of, “Your solution is to kill them.” His reward in focusing on battling Death is that he doesn’t have to care. He doesn’t need an adrenaline rush for that reward.
LikeLike
July 14, 2012 at 11:15 am
I was worried for a bit there, Chuck, but the above indicates I am still firmly ensconced in your brain. I am your only hope, you know.
LikeLike