Sorry I didn’t post last night – minor family emergency…
As a staff person for the National Coalition of Abortion Providers years ago, one of the most enjoyable parts of my job was visiting clinics. Every clinic was totally different, each had its own personality. I loved meeting with the staff, talking to them about how they got the job, what issues they dealt with, how they talked about their job to others (I always encouraged them to be totally straight with folks and not just say that they worked “in a medical facility”). I also enjoyed just sitting in the waiting room with the woman and their partners. It was particularly fun when I struck up conversations with them.
One day I was visiting a large clinic in New York City, a clinic that saw several hundred women each week. I sat down in the packed waiting room and at one point, a woman by herself sat next to me. She was wearing a New York Yankees hat so it was easy for me to strike up a conversation with her. Ultimately, I told her what I did for a living and she started asking me about the abortion process. Her name was Leona.
I told her about the paperwork, the minor medical tests, etc., and then I started to talk about the counseling process when she interrupted me.
“Why do I need to get counseled?” she asked.
“Well, they just want to make sure you know about all of your options and they want to do all they can to assure that they will never see you again for an abortion.”
She got all red in the face. “Why the hell do I need to talk about my options? I’m not stupid. I know I got just three options and I thought about each one and I’ve decided that this is the best one. Why do I have to go through that conversation again with some stranger?”
I really had no answer. She was making sense. She then went on to tell me her individual story and how she had discussed her situation with people that she loved and she was absolutely certain that she was making the right decision. She was a sassy, street smart woman who clearly felt insulted that she was going to have to go through counseling.
And therein lies the dilemma.
The anti-abortion folks love to say (very loudly) that women are never told their options, basically suggesting that women are morons who need the oh-so-precious guidance of those 80 year old crusty protestors out front of the clinic. Meanwhile, the pro-choice folks certainly know that women are smart but many of the clinics still insist on providing some form of counseling for women. Now, some believe that they only need to present the very basic information to the woman, like describing the procedure and post operative instructions. But then there are other clinics who, although they certainly trust women to be intelligent, feel that the abortion decision is still a complicated one and that it is best for any woman to talk through their feelings to assure, as much as possible, that they are truly ready for the abortion.
So, it’s amusing when some local anti-abortion folks find out what form of counseling a clinic offers and, if it’s the more “informational” kind,, they start accusing the clinic of just shoving the women through the process to make a quick buck. They should have a chat with Leona.

September 10, 2012 at 7:12 am
Leona is absolutely right and I can personally say I felt the same way when I was younger and had to be counseled. Fortunately I wasn’t aware of the entire raging debate and my decision was formed from what I felt was best. I had supportive friends and a mother who allowed me to make an informed choice. I was 17 and I don’t recall if I needed my mother’s consent or if she was there to be supportive (which she was).
If a woman has an appointment and is sitting in the waiting room in order to have an abortion (and no one is pushing her through the doors and tying her to the chair, it is quite obvious that she is making an informed decision and has already considered other options.
Ironically, I recall feeling as if the counselor at the abortion clinic was trying to convince me to consider my options, to the point of allowing me to change my mind and walk out if I didn’t want the abortion. Being a bit naive, I thought perhaps her job was to dissuade me and I had to “fight” for my free choice to do what I wanted with my body. Looking back on it, I believe she took her counseling job seriously and was making sure I understood the procedure.
–Daylily
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September 10, 2012 at 7:53 am
Good to hear again from you, Lil. Very “open.”
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September 12, 2012 at 8:06 am
That’s a very interesting perspective, Daylily! Thanks for sharing. Have you come to “regret” your abortion, as anti-abortion folks charge?
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September 12, 2012 at 9:10 pm
I definitely have regrets but not for my choice to have an abortion. I regret that so many woman before me did not have the same legal option to choose a safe way to terminate pregnancy. I regret that pre-1973 women did not have the freedom to choose any procedure they want. I see the past as oppression of women and their rights.
For me, it’s about women ultimately having control over their lives. I celebrate a woman’s decision to carry a pregnancy as much as I recognize how far we, as females have come, knowing we have the option of abortion. I believe every human being should get a choice regarding what they do with their own body.
I could tell you my story but it’s truly not my ambition to share my story on this site. The bottom line, back in 1980, I did not want to be pregnant. Pregnancy is more than a few cells dividing into an embryo; it is a life changing event for the woman who must endure pregnancy, childbirth and parenting. Each woman knows when she is capable of that kind of responsibility and at the end of the day, the brunt of responsibility will most likely be on the woman who has found herself pregnant. The law has rightfully allowed the pregnant woman to make the right decision for herself.
In the end, I believe allowing this choice furthers a woman’s future success and offers the most positive child-rearing environment for future generations.
To sum up, I don’t regret my decision to have an abortion. My mother taught me that women are strong and we can think and act on what is best for us. I celebrate that women have the legal right to make a personal and private decision regarding their lives and their bodies. I’d like to carry on what she taught me and continue to support a woman’s right to free choice.
–Daylily
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September 13, 2012 at 3:42 am
I wish your mother had taught you to keep your hands off other people.
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September 13, 2012 at 8:07 am
Typical Christian lack of tolerance and compassion, just sarcastic vitriol and shaming. That is what modern Christians like John are about. Maybe it is his aged brain, out of touch, and soon to leave this world, with no one to even notice.
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September 13, 2012 at 8:30 am
You new too?
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September 13, 2012 at 10:38 am
What do you mean, John, about Daylily keeping her “hands off other people?” do you know her?
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September 13, 2012 at 10:46 am
“Keep your hands off her,” is one way of saying, “Don’t be a bully.” Killing someone is the ultimate in bullying. Obviously Lil’s mom failed to impart that teaching.
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September 13, 2012 at 10:37 am
Well said, as always, Daylily…I do hope you will continue to opine and share on this blog!
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September 10, 2012 at 7:25 am
Pat, did you ever meet a self-proclaimed “pro-lifer” who had an abortion? How did the counseling part go for her (or her daughter)?
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September 10, 2012 at 12:44 pm
Chiming in here with story about a prolifer who accompanied her daughter to a local abortion clinic, all the while considering her case different from all the horrible women in the waiting room. She was so vocal about her sense of moral superiority and about her condemnation of others that she was told to leave the clinic until her daughter was discharged. Of course, there are many, many stories of people who claim to be prolife until the daughter gets pregnant with the wrong guy or until she is pregnant with the 7th daughter at age 42 or until her abusive husband rapes her one time too many and she aborts her rape or until her life is seriously jeopardized by the pregnancy.
Prolife is choice to accept or not.
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September 12, 2012 at 8:09 am
Charles, I met a number of pro-lifers who had abortions (in addition to people in their family). I’ve talked to two protestors who had abortions. While I never asked them directly about the counseling, I dont recall any one of them telling me it was a terrible experience, that they just tried to force her through the process, etc. Just another example of how you can be outside one minute, then inside and your perspective changes a little. but then they’re back outside again. hmmmmm
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September 12, 2012 at 2:57 pm
Thanks, Pat
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September 13, 2012 at 8:10 am
ProLife Anti Abortion people are hypocrites!
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September 13, 2012 at 8:33 am
Uh uh, Sher, anti-life Pro Abortion people are hypocrites!
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September 10, 2012 at 7:51 am
“. . . the oh-so-precious guidance of those 80 year old crusty protestors out front of the clinic.” Hey wait a minute, Pat, I’m only 77.
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September 12, 2012 at 8:10 am
My bad, John. I thought you had crept up over that 80 mark. Wishing you good health so we can continue to spar for more years. I just wish you’d go volunteer at a homeless shelter and leave those women alone….
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September 13, 2012 at 3:48 am
As the good Rev. Michael Bray says, “We are happy to urge folks to follow the calling God has placed on their lives regarding the rescue of the innocents issue. Some are called to talk, others to serve women in crisis pregnancies, some to blow the damn places up, and others to terminate the terminators.
Give thanks for His wonderful gifts and callings”
And some, I might add, Pat, to volunteer at a homeless shelter.
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September 13, 2012 at 8:14 am
What a lunatic:
John:
“We are happy to urge folks to follow the calling God has placed on their lives … Some are called to talk, others to serve women in crisis pregnancies, some to blow the damn places up, and others to terminate the terminators.”
Why not use the word Murder the innocent people. God is great at ordering the murder of innocent people. Glad to know that you realize that John.
God calls on you to help at homeless shelters, you prefer to intimidate women and befriend murderers. Jesus would never ask you to harm women in the manner that you do. You are deluded.
When was your last MRI of the brain. How much dementia do you have?
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September 13, 2012 at 8:37 am
Which God are you talking about, Sher — 1) God is great at ordering the murder of innocent people, or 2) God calls on you to help at homeless shelters.
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September 13, 2012 at 10:40 am
Ah, Rev Bray! What a sterling example he sets for his flock. Where is he these days, John?
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September 13, 2012 at 10:47 am
He moved west, can’t remember the state. Still going strong.
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September 10, 2012 at 9:51 am
Counselors with whom I have interviewed shared Leona’s sentiment. Women know what they want long before they ever make the phone call to the clinic. So for arrogant legislators to enforce waiting periods is just another expression of misogyny and punishment for naughty women. Plus, the waiting periods and state mandated counseling gives the crusty protesters more opportunities to terrorize women.
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September 10, 2012 at 10:19 am
I hate “crusty.” Change that to benevolent.
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September 10, 2012 at 1:56 pm
Crusty and Smelly are good words for the protestors. For some reason they do not appear to keep up their hygiene. I am not sure what the correlation is. They should bathe. They should also help children in their community, but they don’t.
Terrorists are rarely benevolent.
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September 12, 2012 at 8:13 am
Yeah, I just cannot come to call someone “benevolent” when they are screaming at a woman who is following through on a very difficult decision. That’s why I “appreciate” those who just stand outside and pray. Knock yourselves out.
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September 12, 2012 at 8:23 pm
You only appreciate them when compared to a loud mouth like me. I remember you guys going after Rog, and his thing was standing outside quietly.
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September 13, 2012 at 10:42 am
I dont think I ever “went after” Rog for just standing outside the clinic. I always supported his right to do so and I support yours. And you can make your point by just quietly standing out there, the women see you. I just dont know why you have to yell at them. What does Charles, our resident psychologist, have to say about that??
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September 13, 2012 at 10:54 am
First of all, let me set the record straight. I don’t yell unless I have to.
At the old mill I had to because the deathscorts would not allow me to talk quietly. At the new the victims are so far away that only yelling reaches them. (I forget the second of all.)
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September 15, 2012 at 5:26 pm
Oh yeah, the second of all, now I remember. I remember your trying to persuade Rog to cease and desist. He said that all he did was stand there and those who regretted having someone murdered would approach him. That did not make y’all happy.
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September 13, 2012 at 8:16 am
Anyone that considers themselves benevolent that harms women on a daily basis has a diseased mind.
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September 13, 2012 at 8:40 am
Anyone who considers himself benevolent who harms women on a daily basis has a diseased mind.
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September 12, 2012 at 8:11 am
Those waiting periods are an insult to women. Does a man have to wait another 24 hours before he gets his vasecetomy? Does a man have to wait 24 hours before he gets a penile implant?
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September 12, 2012 at 8:25 pm
He should be forced to wait 24 thousand hours before undergoing those abominations.
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September 10, 2012 at 8:33 pm
As much as it might be fun to paint a picture of anti abortion protesters as crusty or filthy, I’ve found that very few are actually hygiene-deficient. There are, of course, hillbillies here and there who lack sophistication, who think hawking a loogie on the street or wearing grass-stained shoes or sporting a rat-attractive beard will win the hearts of the abortion-minded woman. And there are the majority who are fashion-challenged, weight-challenged and, seriously, hair challenged.
But, seriously, who cares about their appearance when their behaviors are so much more egregious?
Instead of being crusty or filthy, these scum bags are logically and morally busted, their modus operandi is compassion-bankrupt and their factoids are scientifically challenged.
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September 11, 2012 at 4:26 am
My factoid ain’t scientifically challenged. Is it? What is it? Is it located near the arse? (Help me out here, Rog.)
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September 11, 2012 at 6:27 am
I’m so adjective, I verb nouns!
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September 11, 2012 at 9:53 am
What’s going on, Park? You were never this clever before!
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September 12, 2012 at 8:15 am
And, I hate to say it, but I’ve seen some rather “crusty” pro-choicers outside a clinic as well. Oh, we’re getting so tacky here!
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September 11, 2012 at 11:49 am
AI’s! Why do you hit and run. Am I that scary? If you’re one of these disappearing acts, get back here and stand up for yourself: Lil, Park, mart., Evi, Dave, FoL, ga, gj, Mer, KM, Smitty, gw, K.
Kate, Pat, EC, LDM, Rog, and Chuck don’t hit and run. They don’t talk as much as I’d like, and obviously their arguments don’t match mine, but at least they don’t run.
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September 11, 2012 at 12:20 pm
Poor bastard….sounds desperate.
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September 11, 2012 at 5:34 pm
Wrong again! My parents were married before I came into this world. I’m sure of that because I was #3.
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September 11, 2012 at 7:14 pm
JD–I completely see through your replies and your attempts to deflect from the actual post. I don’t respond because your words are nonsensical. You have nothing to add to our discussion about counselor’s at abortion clinics, instead you poke fun at a woman’s right to choose abortion. (That’s right, it’s a choice that women have a legal right to). Why do you make it a laughing matter?
I personally feel as though you have obsessed over this issue long enough. How about a new hobby? I’ve got a suggestion that you could educate young men to put a glove on it. Do you know how many guys tell their girlfriends or one night stands, “I don’t like to have sex with a rubber?” or “I don’t get the same pleasure.” Not to mention a rapist doesn’t take the time to use contraception but I doubt that is a worthy cause to pursue.
Why don’t you open a home for pregnant women who don’t have any other support or perhaps adopt a special needs baby that no one else will or you could busy yourself caring for foster children. The list goes on. There are many worthwhile causes you could devote your life to instead of bad mouthing women, their bodies and their choice over something that is legal under our right to privacy and has been since the Supreme court ruled on Roe vs Wade in 1973.
In all seriousness…haven’t you wasted enough of your life?
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September 12, 2012 at 4:11 am
Don’t run again anyway, Lil.
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September 13, 2012 at 8:19 am
Endless dumb comments.
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September 13, 2012 at 8:47 am
If you were literate, you wouldn’t say that.
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September 12, 2012 at 7:23 am
daylily, you ask a so-called “pro-lifer” to do that which requires more emotional energy than he has. His fixation on his own death (he has proclaimed here he’s not going to die, a statement Freud would have a lot to say about) is so great as to leave him no energy to undertake such complicated and demanding tasks as you propose.
He focuses all his available resources on waging an allegorical battle: the fetus represents him, abortion represents his death, and he represents God. He hopes that by “rescuing” a fetus, he can convince his God to “rescue” him. If he were a truly religious man, none of this would be necessary, but he lacks sufficient faith.
He might well be working through issues of sinfulness and guilt instilled in him by German-American parents. (There was a lot of that in Milwaukee (40% German-American, now 30% Hispanic) when I grew up there.) As Ann Miller points out, the so-called “pro-life” movement gives him permission to hate.
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September 12, 2012 at 7:55 am
“the fetus represents him, abortion represents his death, and he represents God. He hopes that by “rescuing” a fetus, he can convince his God to ‘rescue’ him” — Chuck hits the nail right on the head. (That’s why I keep him around.)
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September 12, 2012 at 5:55 pm
When did ignorance become a point of view?
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September 12, 2012 at 9:14 pm
Why don’t you live your own life? What’s up with all the life/death and rescuing stuff? Women do not need you and what happens in their bodies is not your business.
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September 13, 2012 at 3:53 am
“Am I my sister’s keeper?” Who said that, Lil. Guess. Besides, you’re forgetting something.
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September 12, 2012 at 8:16 am
I knew Charles would chime in! Daylily really threw Charles a softball…
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September 12, 2012 at 9:18 pm
I used to play softball so that is fitting! I liked Charles’ reply. We agree that Mr. D is stuck in his own movement of self-hate. I think he should get a new hobby.
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September 13, 2012 at 3:56 am
You mistake humility for self-hate, Lil. I am the model of selfless love. Ask Kate.
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September 13, 2012 at 8:18 am
You are scary – you like murderers!
That is scary!
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September 13, 2012 at 8:46 am
You are scary – you like murderers!
That is scary!
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September 11, 2012 at 7:34 pm
Great news! U.S. court says woman can’t be charged for inducing abortion
A U.S. appeals court on Tuesday blocked the prosecution of an Idaho woman, Jennie Linn McCormack, who aborted her pregnancy by taking pills instead of traveling to a clinic or hospital as required by state law.
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September 12, 2012 at 7:14 am
So, how much you wanna bet the State of Idaho will appeal?
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September 11, 2012 at 9:32 pm
Jesus never shamed women. YET, the rabid jesus followers love to shame women
go figure
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September 12, 2012 at 7:13 am
The purpose of the so-called “pro-life” movement is to help them work through their crippling fear of their own death and permanent oblivion. To prove to themselves that they can transcend Death, they bully pregnant woman. It’s as simple as that.
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September 12, 2012 at 7:46 am
Jesus lovers a sick bunch. American conservatives are as sick as they get. The Christian terrorists are the worst!
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September 12, 2012 at 8:03 am
Jesus haters a sick bunch. Earl and his ilk are as sick as they get. The anti-Christian terrorists are the worst!
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September 12, 2012 at 8:18 am
Good point, Observer…I cannot imagine Jesus being outside of an abortion clinic screaming at the women as they enter…And folks like John, etc., are doing just that – in the name of Jesus..
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September 12, 2012 at 5:11 pm
In the name of Jesus….really. What a load of crap.
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September 12, 2012 at 4:13 am
Kate, why do you often switch names and sites?
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September 12, 2012 at 7:47 am
John, why do you like convicted murderers?
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September 12, 2012 at 8:01 am
I only like some of them, like that man who hung besides Christ, and repented. The ones you’re referring to, E (Hey, where’d you come from? How’d I miss you up there in #6?), are true heroes punished by a corrupt state.
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September 12, 2012 at 5:52 pm
John’s gone from charmingly crusty to desperately pandering to boxing-above-his-intellectual-weight-class annoying.
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September 12, 2012 at 8:35 pm
I bet you haven’t noticed this, Kate, but Jesus is your Guy! I think the above is the thirty-second time you’ve compared us loser-cruisers to him, unfavorably.
Time for you to forget all the crap you think you learned in graduate school. Follow Jesus consciously, the way, the truth, and the life.
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September 13, 2012 at 8:36 am
How can someone be “charmingly crusty”?
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September 13, 2012 at 8:44 am
(My wife wrote that.)
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September 12, 2012 at 4:15 pm
Getting back to the topic.
Pat, the urologist who did my vasectomy had a “surgery next day” waiting period after the consultation, which he did with both my wife and I together. The surgery was done just down the hall from the consultation room, so there was no real reason for a waiting period, except that was how he worked.
On the other hand, my cataract and hernia work, which had pre-surgery discussions done several days before the procedure, which was done at a different site (producing a waiting period). The guy who gave me a colonoscopy did not council, except for about 5 minutes in the procedure room.
None of this was mandated by law.
But specialists doing those procedures are all over the place and waiting periods are generally of no consequence. Abortion providers in some states are a 1/2 day bus ride away, and for a poor woman a waiting period is potentially a massive burden (as is taking care of a child). Waiting periods can hit deadlines which can change the who thing. The provider should be willing and able to provide consultation by phone. And 77 yr old men should not have any involvement not requested by the patient.
With all due respect to Leona, she did need to hear the details from a trained professional, not just her friends and relatives.
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September 12, 2012 at 5:13 pm
And to continue, David, might I add that the risks inherent in those surgeries and procedures you listed have far more potential dangers than a simple abortion.
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September 12, 2012 at 8:39 pm
Well to Dave, yeah.
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September 13, 2012 at 10:49 am
Well said, David. I think what really bothers me is that legislators think that they can just impose regulations across the board, as if every woman (or man) is the same. I think every physician’s office should be generally free to treat their patients the way they feel is right.
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September 13, 2012 at 8:26 pm
the truth as I am seeing it. I am reading this whole web site and the truth is that most women who have abortions know they are safe with doctors that have compassion. They are overwhelmed and scared. This site makes it seems like abortion is a political party or company or am. Abortion is safe when legal. I have seen some girls laugh before they walk in to get their abortions but most are so totally OK when it is over.
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September 18, 2012 at 6:59 am
Saperna, did you ever consider that it is more advantageous for so-called “pro-lifers” to bully someone who is overwhelmed and scared? What benefits do they get from doing that?
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