Here we go again.
In the late 1990’s, when the Congress was considering banning what pro-lifers dubbed the “partial birth abortion,” there was a great debate over how often the procedure was used and in what circumstances. Pro-choice groups defended the procedure by arguing that it was used only a few hundred times a year in extreme situations, such as when the mother’s life was endangered or there was a severe fetal abnormality. Pro-lifers countered that it was used in many more cases and not necessarily in those “extreme” situations. At one point, even the relatively pro-choice media started questioning the abortion rights group’s arguments and they ultimately noted that the pro-lifers were correct. In February, 1997, in my capacity as the Director of the National Coalition of Abortion Providers I went public and confirmed that the procedure was more widely used than pro-choicers had admitted. I took this terrifying step because I had grown tired of our movement being afraid to talk about the actual abortion procedure and for constantly “apologizing” for abortion by emphasizing the tougher cases. My remarks created national headlines and great consternation for my movement but I – and the providers I represented – felt better that the air had been cleared.
And now, pro-choice columnist Dana Milbank wrote a piece this weekend that relives – and ignores – history.
He notes that a short while ago, South Carolina Senator Lindsay Graham (running for President) introduced legislation that would ban abortions after 20 weeks. This is not a new concept. Bills like this one have been introduced in many states and the U.S. House of Representatives recently passed a similar bill. To his credit, Milbank castigates Graham and his proposal and he points out that banning abortions after 20 weeks will only affect a small percentage of abortions. Fair enough. But, in a case of déjà vu all over again, he felt compelled to add that “those are often the most difficult cases, such as the woman who discovers late in pregnancy that she has cancer.”
If he was just talking about abortions after 24 weeks, then his statement would be true because those abortions can only be performed if there are exigent circumstances, i.e., serious health implications, life endangerment and, in some states, fetal abnormalities. And yes, post viability abortions constitute an extremely small percentage of the abortions in this country. But, repeating the mistakes of the past, Mr. Milbank totally ignores those abortions performed between 20 and 24 weeks where there are basically no restrictions and women need not offer any reason for their having their abortions.
Between 20 and 24 weeks, a woman can walk into a clinic (assuming she can find one that performs those later abortions) and have an abortion, no questions asked. Now, the reality is that in most situations a women will voluntarily talk about why she is having the abortion but that’s as far as it goes. She could walk into a clinic at 21 weeks, go through counseling, get her medical check-up, not say another word and have the abortion.
And, as far as I’m concerned, that’s okay. There is no need to apologize. The Supreme Court in 1973 said those were the rules, end of story.
But, no, as always many in the pro-choice movement do not want to fess up that there are woman out there who just want an abortion dammit – and instead they keep focusing on the hard cases which make for good media sound bites but do not necessarily reflect the real world experience of thousands and thousands of women.

June 25, 2015 at 7:37 am
People driven by the fear of an inescapable disaster will often deal with that fear by adopting rituals that will allow them to pretend it’s not going to befall them.
This is why the so-called “pro-life” movement– which does not especially care for babies or children– constantly pressure columnists like Milbank to write tripe.
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June 25, 2015 at 8:16 am
Chuck, am I the representative of the pro-life movement, and are you a columnist like Milbank?
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June 25, 2015 at 10:21 am
Milbank is immune from any pro-life pressure, as our most columnists. What pisses me off is that Milbank is feeding the abortion stigma by apologizing by focusing on the tough cases. Bull crap. Most of the cases are not tough.
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June 25, 2015 at 5:33 pm
You’re the best the so-called “pro-lifers” have, Mr. Dunkle.
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June 25, 2015 at 6:45 pm
Get me a booking.
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June 25, 2015 at 9:53 am
I believe that pro choicers are doing themselves a disservice by failing to be fully forthright and by cherry picking special or hardship cases. Yes, women do choose to abort their fetus at 20 weeks plus or minus a few lunar weeks. Yes, they do so knowing that the fetus is a human creation with a separate DNA. Let’s be truthful. Women know what it means to be pregnant. But they also know that they cannot carry a pregnancy to term because 1) they don’t want to, 2) they can’t afford to, 3) they don’t want to parent with the sperm donor or 4) they don’t have a safe living arrangement or some combination of all these reasons.
Let’s also be truthful. We know that some women don’t realize they’re pregnant until they are well into the second trimester for many reasons. Some reasons include they have irregular periods, they are morbidly obese, they have an underlying medical condition, their pregnancy test was wrong, they are under extreme levels of stress or they deny they are pregnant. To listen to the anti abortion activists, one could easily come to the conclusion that they view women’s only value as fine-tuned machines that work with precision to produce a fetus. Of course, we know human bodies, particularly women’s bodies, are far more complicated than a man-made machine. But, the anti abortion activists’ view of the science is beyond the scope of this post.
To return to the topic, we know at 19-24 weeks, the fetus is approximately 6.5 to 8.4 inches long and finally looks human. The head, body and limbs become proportionate to one another. The fingernails, toenails, eyelids, nose, mouth, ears and most internal organs are well developed. The skin is wrinkled, pink to red and translucent (true even for an African American fetus). However, the lungs and nervous system are often still not mature enough to survive, even with the technological wizardry of a NICU.
So, yes, women do demand abortions later than some pro choicers would admit and they demand them for valid reasons. It’s high time the pro choice community speak up more fully, refraining from the banal sound bytes, and support women’s decisions about when to parent.
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June 25, 2015 at 10:25 am
Alice, I absolutely love your statement. It is right on. I’ve written about this before, i.e., the pro-choice movement is feeding the abortion stigma. Heck, in the early 1980’s I was (the first male) national lobbyist for NARAL and I even remember in those days NARAL being very nervous about any association with abortion providers. I remember arguing that we should get a provider to testify on Capitol Hill and my boss saying it was not a good idea because “they make money on abortions.” So, it’s been going on forever and their discomfort with abortion clearly showed during the partial birth abortion debacle.
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June 25, 2015 at 1:48 pm
This money issue is absurd. All doctors make money. Whether they’re raking in the dough for doing 20 colonscopies in one day or “recontouring” a middle aged woman’s face or repairing a fractured wrist, they all make money. The money argument was applied to the Jews during WW II. The anti aborts like to link abortion to the Holocaust. But they get it ALL wrong. The anti aborts are repeating the Nazi’s chain of destruction beginning with a phase we can call “identification,” in which a group of people is identified as a cause for problems of society. People start to perceive their fellow citizens as bad. They’re evil. They used to be worthwhile people but now, all of a sudden, for some reason their lives are worthless. The Nazis did it to the Jews (and others). The anti aborts are doing it to doctors and staff who provide reproductive health including abortions.
The second phase of the chain of destruction is ostracism. by which we learn how to hate these people, how to take their jobs away, how to make it harder for them to survive. Often they are forced to live/work in isolated areas away from society. We’ve witnessed the isolation of abortion practice, outside the mainstream obstetrical and gynecological practice.
The third link is “confiscation.” People lose their rights and civil liberties. The laws themselves change so it’s made easier for people to be stopped
on the street, patted down, searched, and for their property to be confiscated. We’ve seen doctors lose their civil rights to free speech when the government intervenes with the doctor/patient relationship, forcing them to give a state-mandated lecture about abortion that is inaccurate.
The fourth link is “concentration.” Concentrate them into facilities such as prisons, camps. People lose their rights. They can’t vote anymore, have children anymore. We’ve seen this happening to women who miscarry or who have used drugs and have been imprisoned.Just check in with Lynn Paltrow, National Advocates for Pregnant Women, to learn how awful things have truly become for women who are pregnant or parenting.
The final link in the chain of destruction is “annihilation.” Now this might be indirect, by say withholding medical care, withholding food, preventing further birth, or it might be direct where death is inflicted, where
people are deliberately killed. These steps tend to happen of their own momentum without anybody forcing them to happen. I think a lot of people would be disturbed and outraged by any thought that this process could be going on in America. But it is. We’ve witnessed doctors being killed, women being sterilized against their will or imprisoned when they should have received medical care.
In fact, if you seriously study the anti abort movement, they have remarkable parallels to those of the Nazi movement. It’s frightening.
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June 28, 2015 at 4:19 pm
Yeah, what Alice said
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June 25, 2015 at 11:40 am
Alice, compare this with your first paragraph:
I believe that we Nazis are doing ourselves a disservice by failing to be fully forthright and by cherry picking special or hardship cases. Yes, we do choose to kill Jews. Yes, we do so knowing that they are human creations with a separate DNA. Let’s be truthful. We know what it means to have here people we don’t want around. But we also know that we cannot keep them here because 1) we don’t want to, 2) we can’t afford to, 3) we don’t want to share extended Jewish families with the French or 4) we don’t have a safe living arrangement or some combination of all these reasons.
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January 26, 2016 at 11:51 am
Excellent point!
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June 25, 2015 at 5:43 pm
Alice, the underlying culture that led to the prevalence of Nazism was 300 years of child abuse which was mistaken for proper parenting. German parents learned that manipulating children’s emotions, denying them respect and genuine affection and training them to mistrust their feelings was to raise a good German. the children in their turn not only imitated their parents, but they also repressed their feelings until a proper authority gave them permission to express them; hence the Nazi “Kraft lurch Freude,” the “strength through joy” cultural program which gave them permission to have a good time.
When the German people were given permission to hate the Jews, they were able to project onto the latter all their negative feelings about themselves, a therapeutic catharsis.
It’s the same with the so-called “pro-lifers” hating people who would have or permit others to have an abortion. They are working through a very profound issue they have– the inevitability of their death and passage into total oblivion.
They wage an allegorical battle, with abortion representing Death, the fetus themselves and they as the omnipotent Deity who, they hope but do not believe, will rescue them.
They don’t care particularly for babies or children, which is bizarre for a group which claims to care for human life.
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June 25, 2015 at 6:48 pm
I’m glad this is addressed to you, Alice.
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June 26, 2015 at 8:41 am
Responsible, the key word, to my thinking, is projection. The Germans projected their hate of the Jews as the Antis project. Both movements recognized power. It’s like bell hooks says, “Sometimes, people try to destroy you, precisely because they recognize your power. Not because they do not see it, but because they see it and they do not want it to exist.”
Women are powerful. They were the giver of life and death. The anti aborts want to destroy that power.
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June 26, 2015 at 10:28 am
See what happens, Chuck, when you write something incomprehensible to someone? You get a reply in kind.
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June 26, 2015 at 9:55 am
Here I provide more evidence of the parallels between the Nazi and anti abortion movement. The evidence, drawn from an exhibit at the Holocaust Museum in Washington DC, is remarkably parallel to the anti abortion movement.
Nazi propaganda was:
–Emotional
–Repetitive
–Uncompromising
Nazi propaganda used:
–Rallies
–Parades
–Speeches
–Rituals
–National events to increase pride
Nazi propaganda exploited:
–Film
–TV
–Radio
Nazi propaganda was:
Relentless
Ruthless
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June 26, 2015 at 10:07 am
Further while Nazi terroristic activities included pogroms such as Kristallnacht, anti aborts engaged in bombings, shootings, and arson. Legislatively, Nazis forced Jews out of business and professional life while anti abort legislators removed doctors from providing abortions in hospitals, forced TRAP laws, mandatory waiting periods and state sanctioned misinformation that must be given to women seeking abortions. The Nazis relied on powerful groups like the National Socialist Teachers’ Union while anti aborts relied on mostly Republicans. The Nazi’s religious affiliation was with Christianity like the anti aborts affiliation.
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June 26, 2015 at 10:40 am
This is more like it.
“Further while Nazi terroristic activities included pogroms such as Kristallnacht, anti aborts engaged in bombings, shootings, and arson.”
There’s a world of difference, Alice, in using force to kill the innocent and using it to stop their killing.
“Legislatively, Nazis forced Jews out of business and professional life while anti abort legislators removed doctors from providing abortions in hospitals, forced TRAP laws, mandatory waiting periods and state sanctioned misinformation that must be given to women seeking abortions.”
There’s a world of difference, Alice, in using force diabolically and using it reasonably.
“The Nazis relied on powerful groups like the National Socialist Teachers’ Union while anti aborts relied on mostly Republicans.”
This sentence would be OK if you replaced Republicans with Catholics.
“The Nazi’s religious affiliation was with Christianity like the anti aborts affiliation.”
A pure and simple lie. You couldn’t help it, could you.
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June 30, 2015 at 1:30 pm
It is true that “There’s a world of difference, Alice, in using force diabolically and using it reasonably,” but I object to your claim that the Nazi were reasonable.
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July 1, 2015 at 5:00 am
You mean John, and that’s why I like arguing with you, David, you’re fun.
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July 1, 2015 at 3:08 pm
David,
It’s indeed curious to consider using force diabolically versus using force reasonably. To my understanding, the use of force positions the agent using said force as having a measure of power over the object of his force. This understanding, therefore, does not equate in any way as reasonable. Using force against someone is an option. For example, after 9-11, fighting wars in Iraq and Afghanistan was an option. It was not the only option. In fact, all other options were drowned out by the Republican (and a few Democrat) warmongers and their corporate media lapdogs.
To return to my thesis that Nazis and anti aborts share similar patterns, it seems ludicrous to think that either movement was reasonable. Reasonable suggests a sense of fairness, as having sound judgment, and as being moderate in their behavior. Reasonable does not apply to the Nazis or to the anti aborts. Both were and are logical, methodical, relentless, ruthless, hateful, inhumane and systematic.
In legal terminology, the reasonable person standard suggests what a reasonably prudent person would do. In the literature on the Holocaust and the anti abortion movements, the evidence is overwhelmingly against such an absurdist notion that either movement was or is reasonable. In other words, no reasonably prudent person would behave as the Nazis did and as the anti aborts do.
As to the comment about diabolical force, I’ll leave that fantasy of devils and demons to others.
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July 1, 2015 at 5:03 pm
“As to the comment about diabolical force, I’ll leave that fantasy of devils and demons to others.”
Yeah, C. S. Lewis. I’m glad Alice addressed the first three paragraphs of this drivel to you David.
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July 2, 2015 at 8:36 am
“If anyone thinks that Christians regard unchastity as the supreme vice, he is quite wrong. The sins of the flesh are bad, but they are the least bad of all sins. All the worst pleasures are purely spiritual: the pleasure of putting other people in the wrong, of bossing and patronising and spoiling sport, and backbiting; the pleasures of power, of hatred. For there are two things inside me, competing with the human self which I must try to become. They are the Animal self, and the Diabolical self. The Diabolical self is the worse of the two. That is why a cold, self-righteous prig who goes regularly to church may be far nearer to hell than a prostitute. But, of course, it is better to be neither.” C. S. Lewis
The Christian Nazis and the anti aborts were/are cold, self-righteous, church-going, power-hungry, hateful prigs.
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July 2, 2015 at 12:23 pm
Sounds like the hate here is coming from a different direction.
Good quote from CS. Hey, I thought he’d be one of your fantasizers.
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July 2, 2015 at 8:47 am
Alice et al.~~
The so-called “pro-lifers” need to have their framing capabilities destroyed.
Anyone who has read the works of the GOP spinmeister Frank Luntz or his Democratic counterpart George Layoff is aware of how the lay of the political battlefield can predetermine the victory.
The successes of the so-called “pro-lifers” have not resulted from a superior care for pregnant women, fetuses or children, but from harping on memes: murder, genocide, adulteresses, and so forth.
So, start reclaiming the battlefield.
Do not refer to them as “anti-aborts.”
Refer to them as “so-called pro-lifers.”
People will start to realize that there must be something underlying that behavior that gives the lie to their words if they are only “so-called.” It is important to get the message out to the world that those people are NOT acting on behalf of others’ welfare.
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July 2, 2015 at 9:05 am
Good to have this reminder. Thanks. I so agree with you that these people are more accurately framed as “so-called pro-lifers.” But, in truth, they are terrorists. Of course, the problem with the terrorist label is that it has been treated as a stereotype for Others (meaning non-Christians, non whites) that doesn’t apply to them.
As you say, using “so-called” calls into question the veracity of their movement and their motives.
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July 2, 2015 at 12:52 pm
Alice, I am a member of an anti-war group which holds a weekly peace vigil. Aware of the declining numbers, I suggested to the others that we improve our high school counter-recruiting presence by having the display include a big and splendid American flag. Most of the rest of the group were appalled at the thought. “Use the flag of the imperialist oppressor?”
A few of the others realized that most Americans would link the flag to patriotism and good deeds, and that identifying pacifism with patriotism would be a very good thing to do. However, those who considered it the symbol of the oppressor could not be swayed.
So it is with our own feelings about the so-called “pro-lifers.” No matter what we call them, the only message that will resonate with the public is the one they do not associate with other groups or causes. Hence, “terrorist,” “Nazi” and such other terms are not going to be particularly effective, even though they express how we personally feel.
Framing takes discipline.
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July 2, 2015 at 12:27 pm
Explain that first sentence for me, Chuck. I couldn’t get past it.
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July 2, 2015 at 5:52 pm
I still don’t understand it.
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July 6, 2015 at 10:05 am
Just read in The New York Times that in Colorado teen pregnancy is down 40% (2009 to 2013) and abortions are down 42%. That the numbers track should not surprise anyone. Numbers are similar for unmarried women under 25 who did not finish high school. These reductions are attributed to state help with long term contraceptives – IUDs and implants. I am sure this horrifies the anti-choice mob.
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July 6, 2015 at 11:02 am
Well yeah but not so much as if they’d castrated every ten-year-old Colorado male. That would reduce those rates to zero.
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July 6, 2015 at 11:36 am
?????????
Mr. Dunkle’s post was, I suppose, an attempt at humor, but note that it does show the so-called “pro-lifer” affinity for trampling on individual rights.
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July 6, 2015 at 3:49 pm
“Responsible, here’s some food for thought from Mary Elizabeth Williams, staff writer at Salon, who writes, “If you say that a human life has value and you steadfastly refuse to value women, you’re not just ridiculously hypocritical, you’re being downright dangerous.”
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July 6, 2015 at 4:56 pm
We need to make it a habit to remind the general public that there is a difference between care ABOUT human life (which is the focus of the so-called “pro-lifers”) and care FOR human life.
The former deals with the need to satisfy one’s own feelings; the latter deals with the duty to nurture it.
Here’s an example of the difference: A so-called “pro-lifer” is told that a woman is pregnant and thinks, “I hope she doesn’t have an abortion!” That is an expression of one’s own need to feel comfortable. A real pro-lifer, one who knows about the responsibility to nurture, is very likely to think, “I hope she has the resources to meet the child’s needs for the next 18 years.”
But since the so-called “pro-lifers” have appropriated the “pro-life” label quite successfully, we who care FOR human life are operating at a great disadvantage.
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July 6, 2015 at 6:52 pm
Ask Mary Elizabeth this, Alice — How ’bout if you say human life has value and you steadfastly continue to help kill young people.
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July 6, 2015 at 3:50 pm
David, these stats would certainly poke a big hole in their make believe world.
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July 6, 2015 at 3:40 pm
Not sure if you saw this from Al Jazeera America OpEd about American anti-abortion extremists as domestic terrorists. Love the piece.
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July 6, 2015 at 6:54 pm
Where do I find it?
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July 7, 2015 at 8:30 am
Seriously, John, can’t you do Google searches?
Just do a search on
Al Jazeera anti-abortion extremists as domestic terrorists
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July 7, 2015 at 9:42 am
He’s very skilled at ju-jitsu, David: He uses his opponent’s strength against his opponent: The more he can wear you out, the less likely you are to argue forcefully. He’s not really interested in the Al-Jazeera article.
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July 7, 2015 at 6:03 pm
Sorry to have to say this, but another thing he is likely skilled at is saying, “Honey, how does this vacuum cleaner work? I’d like to help but I’m so baffled about this darn thing.” –OR– “You’re so much better at getting up at night with the baby than I am.” —OR–“I’m sorry about not helping with the dog’s vomiting. I just can’t handle that.”
I smell gender BS.
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July 7, 2015 at 8:57 pm
I’m erasing this sucker before my wife sees it.
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July 7, 2015 at 8:59 pm
I am too, Chuck, I am too.
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July 7, 2015 at 8:58 pm
Thank you, David.
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July 8, 2015 at 5:16 am
OK I found it. Not bad. Here’s my favorite section with two changes:
“To try to accomplish what they have been unable to do through normal political channels, a few pro-lifers use other methods: targeted harassment and intimidation. It’s common sense, pure and simple.”
And I’ll add that once one finds an effective way to harass, it’s easy to intimidate those who kill others for a living.
Now Chuck will tell you that I’m using the writer’s best line against him. Chuck’s right.
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July 8, 2015 at 6:50 am
Boy do I love this blog. I had never even heard of al jazeera. As near as I can tell it’s a pro-Islam news outlet. If you kill a small child in most Islam areas, you’ll end up dead,
The writer, however, of this pro-death squib is named David Cohen, who would seem to be more pro-Israel than pro-Islam. You have to ask yourself,who really does control al jazeera?
I just ordered Cohen’s book about “pro-life extremists.” Huge disappointment if I’m not mentioned.
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July 8, 2015 at 8:15 pm
I’m glad I read the “sample” Kindle provides before I ordered Cohen’s book, “Living in the Crosshairs.” Propaganda, and propaganda’s boring. Even if Cohen devotes a whole chapter to me, it wouldn’t be worth it.
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