Yesterday, to escape this blasted heat, I went into Washington, D.C. to catch an exhibit of Norman Rockwell paintings that had been donated by Stephen Speilberg and George Lucas. It was nice just taking my time walking around, examining every amazing detail in Rockwell’s works.
At one point I came across a piece entitled “Free Speech.” The piece focuses on one man, standing in the middle of a crowd. The caption next to the painting said this was a man who disagreed with the crowd on some issue, but his opponents were listening to him intently, respecting his right to say what was on his mind even though they ultimately would not support him. I was almost brought to tears.
Today, of course, that person would have been shouted down, totally discounted as some nut ball by his opponents. That’s just where we are as a society these days. We just don’t listen anymore. Worse, when someone tries to suggest something contrary to our beliefs, we try to silence him with harsh words, with guffaws, with rolling eyes, as if this person could never say anything that was remotely of some benefit.
Of course, we see this kind of behavior all the time in the abortion debate. Indeed, the harsh back and forth is probably more pronounced when discussing the abortion issue than any other issue. We are so locked into our beliefs, the battle lines are drawn oh-so-clearly and you cannot cross them lest you be accused of ceding some valuable territory to the opposition. Just watch an abortion debate on television. You know exactly what I mean. It’s a constant screaming match. “Abortion is murder!” “A woman has the right to control her body!” And on and on and on.
No one is communicating. They’re just yelling over each other. Actually, years ago I stopped watching these “debates.”
I’m pro-choice, I’ve worked for pro-choice organizations for years. But, much to the chagrin of many of my colleagues, years ago I started reaching out to pro-life people in an attempt to try to get inside their head, to learn more about them and, hopefully, to allow them to learn more about me . I actually started engaging the other side after I learned that a number of the abortion clinics that I represented engaged in the same discussions with their local anti-abortion activists.
At the same time, I challenged my pro-choice colleagues to address the tougher questions about abortion. When I visited the clinics, I talked to the women and it became clear to me that they were not there to make a statement about their constitutional rights or to promote some feminist ideology. They were there because they were in a difficult situation and they needed help. They also had to deal with something that pro-choice organizations would rather not address – they were carrying a baby that they didn’t want. I soon discovered that the bottom line was that abortion is all so complicated.
So, amidst the screaming and yelling, the women continue to seek abortion services. I think that anti-abortion folks owe these women more respect and the pro-choice activists should not try to reduce this issue to a simple bumper sticker. Both sides should listen more to the other side with the goal of having a civil debate about abortion – kinda like that group in the Normal Rockwell painting.


July 12, 2010 at 9:58 am
Hi Pat, nice writing!
As most things happens the right of speech is only given to you if you agree with the opponent otherwise you will only be ignored.
People are selfish by nature and when in a bigger crowd they just get more and more enthusiastic about what they have to talk and to debate the minority. If everybody was to do like in this picture that you mention, i believe that so many things would be much better than what really is now in days. RESPECT is something that we all should have to everybody.
Abortion is not a easy decision at all. No matter what is happening in that woman’s life inside of her she knows exactly what she is going thru and how hard that decision is. I said here before, i don’t agree with all abortions but i do respect other people decision, i did drive a friend for a few times to have an abortion because she didn’t take the right precautions to prevent a pregnancy and when it did happen she had the abortion solution. Did i talk to her? YES
Did i try to change her mind? OF COURSE
But i just did what a friend had to do, i talk to her about the consequences and she said she just couldn’t have that baby, so i drove her, waited, took her home and that is it.
Did i feel good, NO, don’t even think that i liked, actually i didn’t stay inside the place, i was nauseating just to think about it. But that is me and my moral beliefs. She is a different person with a different belief.
JOHN please do not crucify me here ok!!! Save your speech!
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July 12, 2010 at 11:25 am
Sonia, you’re smarter than I am. I would crucify you if I knew how. So tell me.
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July 12, 2010 at 3:12 pm
Pat….I agree with you and I have over the years reached out on a proffessional level to people on the anti-choice side and there has been mutual respect on both sides! However I just can’t tolerate “fanatics” no matter how much I have tried… Sonia I appreciate how you put your personal feelings aside to be a good friend to someone you cared about in her time of need….I really respect you for that…
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July 12, 2010 at 10:22 pm
Thanks Lorraine.

There was nothing i could do about it, so i did what i could, i drove her…
John what do you want me to tell you?
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July 13, 2010 at 5:30 am
Why would I want to crucify you and how could I do that.
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July 13, 2010 at 7:12 pm
Sonia, two questions: 1) How far were you willing to go to raise that child? 2) With so-called “pro-life” friends like Mr. Dunkle, do you feel you need to watch your back?
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July 13, 2010 at 10:20 pm
Hi Charles, the possibility of her having the child didn’t exist, no matter what i could offer to her or anybody else… there was problems of a relationship that was a major reason for her decision.
About watching my back, hummmm no, i don’t think i have to watch my back, i am not scared of this pro-lifers. First because i didn’t do anything, second because if at that particular day was a protest in front of the clinic that my friend was in i would walk to them and TRY to talk to them. Yeah i know it is impossible to talk to them in a reasonable way, but i would be doing the same thing they were right, trying to make them to see the other side of the story.
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July 14, 2010 at 8:37 pm
Glad you’re not scared of them, Sonia, even though the Dunkle said he wants to track you down and crucify you. Evidently he wanted you to raise one more unwanted baby than he has.
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July 14, 2010 at 4:29 am
Sonia, see you at #9.
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July 13, 2010 at 10:08 am
What is this guy Dunkle talking about.
He seems to know nothing about abortion, or the abortion pill.
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July 13, 2010 at 10:53 am
I know the word used to refer to miscarriage (spontaneous abortion) and now it refers to murder. And I know the abortion pill poisons the pregnant woman as does any chemical that prevents something natural from occurring.
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July 13, 2010 at 5:27 pm
And I know the abortion pill poisons the pregnant woman also, as would any chemical that prevents something natural from occurring.
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July 13, 2010 at 5:45 pm
Dunkle:
” . . . as would any chemical that prevents something natural from occurring.”
—-
Cancer is very natural, as is cerebrovascular disease,
98% of us die from the repercussions of those two categories of disease.
A few are assassinated by pro-lifers illegally, but most get cancer or cerebrovascular disease.
Dunkle, we are pretty sure that you have this stuff going on in you by the look of you.
Should these ill people (or you when you are in agony from cancer, or Angina) receive any chemicals to intervene with Natural processes?
Or chemicals to offer the relief in an hour of terminal illness from pain and suffering,
where is your compassion?
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July 13, 2010 at 6:54 pm
You got a problem here, Craig, and I’ll get back to you.
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July 13, 2010 at 7:16 pm
From the aborticentrism blog:
DEATH THREATS
The would-be hero needs to have a perfect victim as the object of his intentions– if it is imperfect, it will always stand as a reminder of his own imperfections. Therefore, he finds it a grave threat to his intended path of self-therapy if it is shown that his victim is other than exactly as he wants it to be. In the case of the Journal of the American Medical Association article, the authors were imputing to the fetus the neurological sensitivity of an earthworm. It’s hard to be a hero championing earthworms.
There is also the matter of selling his intended heroism to society. The more perfect the victim, the less work to sell it. But if objective evidence comes to light showing the victim to be not what the would-be hero claims, it makes his sales attempt that much more difficult.
A would-be hero issuing a death threat is a person with low emotional well-being. Unsure of his efficacy, he goes over the top in expressing his anger inappropriately. His overreaction is proportionate to the degree of threat he feels to his whole enterprise.
The ‘pro-lifers’ who actually carry out death threats are of course fantasists without redemption.
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July 14, 2010 at 4:38 am
Sonia (from #3): One of my sisters got pregnant at 19 and was agonizing over what to do. Her roommate at the time, an ebullient young thing, said, “Why don’t you keep the baby? It can be so cool, the two of us raising it!” This was in the early days of Women’s Lib, as well as the era of full efflorescence of the Flower Generation, and it was pretty appealing to my sister to be on the cutting edge of a new domesticity.
Unfortunately a few years down the road the (now) ex-roommate was diagnosed with multiple personality disorder, the illness du jour at the time. I comforted myself to think that, had my sister tried to raise the baby and had her roommate not gone off to get a life of her own, at least my sister would have had a lot of babysitters.
Encouraging someone else to have a baby is never done in the interests of the child. I hope you’re more professional about it these days and willing to pay the woman to give you the child you want her to bear.
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July 14, 2010 at 6:50 am
Charles, i can’t change anybodies mind, people has the freedom to do whatever they want, right or wrong. I can try to talk and make them understand that it maybe there i another solutions but to “force” them into changing their minds because what i think or believe. If she was ever to request of me to help her, YES i would for sure. But like i mention before that was a difficult relationship and also other matters that i will not mention because that doesn’t concern me!
One can only be responsible for themselves and never to convince anybody of what they think or believe to be right. The only thing i could do for her at that time, after talking to her to try to change her mind, was to drive her there and wait to take her home. What kind of a person i would be if i was to refuse any kind of help at all and something else to happen to her.
I prefer to do something than nothing at all.
WRONG or RIGHT i don’t know, but i do know that i try and if i am guilty for that so be it… but rather that than BS with fake morals and believes.
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July 14, 2010 at 8:40 pm
Ah, better watch it! You’re starting to sound like a LIBERAL! Better you should let people think for you…… Bully for you!
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July 14, 2010 at 8:13 am
I am liking Sonia more and more. She is not selling anything, she is not part of any cause, she is a little confused about her feelings about the issue. She is the American public and I hope she will continue to comment on my posts. We need her level-headedness.
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July 14, 2010 at 8:54 am
Hi Pat,
This is a great post…I heartily agree. When I found this blog…quite by accident, and read several of your past posts, I thought maybe it would be a place to dialogue with some people who promote abortion. Maybe to try to understand why they think the way they do, etc.
I have thought about it for several days and I think part of the problem for people on both sides of the issue are our pre-conceived ideas of who we are. We have lumped “pro-life” or “pro-abortion” people into categories that aren’t neccessarily true in all cases. For instance, I have never protested in front of an abortion clinic, never carried a sign of any sort outside of an abortion clinic worker’s home and frankly, never intend to. I absolutely do not agree with the violence and murder aimed at abortion doctors and clinic workers. I also know many, many people who call themselves pro-life that feel the way I do. In fact, I don’t know anyone personally that protests in front of abortion clinics.
What I do, is work in a pregnancy resource center. When a woman comes in here, we ask a few questions, get to know her and her circumstance a little, then do a lot of listening. It is amazing what can happen if you just let someone talk about their life. If you ask a few questions and help them see what might be if they choose abortion or if they choose to carry to term. I don’t show pictures of aborted fetuses to anyone–I don’t even have any to show. I do show them pictures of what their baby looks like at the stage of development it is right then. What I try to offer them is relief from their circumstance that they feel dictates the only solution is abortion. Sometimes I can help, sometimes the woman still chooses abortion. Either way, she leaves our center knowing that I care for her and I will pray for her and the decision she is making. I am not perfect and neither are my methods. But, abortion on demand does not always turn out to be the best solution either.
I am willing to dialogue and hope you and others that post here are too.
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July 14, 2010 at 10:08 am
Dear Susan, whoever you are and the people you work with GOD BLESS YOU… I loved your post and that made me feel that we still have hope to one day be all under the same roof talking as adults and looking for better days! Because at the end that is what all of us really aim for right?
Abortion is a very hard decision, i believe, there is lots of conflicts in a women mind when thinking about it and having a place they can TALK, cry, put their emotions out without worrying if they will be judged it is such a great thing. That is why i did help my friend and allowed her to choose what she wanted.
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July 14, 2010 at 8:43 pm
So, the “crisis pregnancy centers”– or at least yours– doesn’t show “Silent Scream” anymore? What has replaced it?
What in general is their economic situation? I know that in general the clients of the clinic I was most familiar with where generally under 18 and from lower middle class families.
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July 14, 2010 at 9:57 pm
No, don’t show that film–never did at the center I have been at for 15 years. It was in a box in the closet and when we moved earlier this year it went into the trash with a few other outdated vcr tapes that we never showed to clients.
I have always used pictures of fetal development in the womb at various stages when I talk with women. Of course, now we are able to show them ultrasound images of their own baby if they want.
The majority of our clients are between 18 and 24 and probably are middle to lower class economically, but we do not keep stats on their income levels so that is a guess. We do see a fair number under 18 and over 25, but our largest numbers are in that college-age bracket.
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July 15, 2010 at 9:16 am
This is a great post, Susan, and I welcome you. I hope you will continue to chime in on my stuff.
I’ve written about cpcs in the past (see “Guy Condon and Me”) and I appreciate your work. The only thing that always concerned me was how SOME cpcs would get women into their facility under false pretenses. They would advertise in the Yellow Pages under “abortion,” say they offered free pregnancy tests and “abortion advice” to make it look like they were a clinic. Honestly, does your cpc do that?
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July 15, 2010 at 12:05 pm
Thanks, Pat. I did read your post on Guy Condon. I was acquainted with him, but didn’t have the privilege you did of sitting around the table. Our center is an affiliate of the centers Guy Condon oversaw.
No, we don’t advertise under “abortion,” but that is how I found your blog. NARAL is again accusing us of just those things, (as an industry) so I googled “abortion” in our area and found you. We are listed under “abortion alternatives” and “crisis intervention.” We do offer free pregnancy tests and information on pregnancy options: parenting, adoption and abortion. That is what we do, so that is what we advertise.
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July 14, 2010 at 1:11 pm
Charles, out of curiosity i access your link to take a look.
I wasn’t surprised when i watched that little video (and i mean little in all the senses of the word LITTLE).
How can this hypocritical people get their signs and go in front of a clinic to tell women that they should carry the pregnancy to its term when THEY NEVER ADOPTED, TOOK CARE, WAS A BIG BROTHER/SISTER etc…
Come on, don’t you think that HONESTLY saying in order for whoever wants to point fingers they should have the morals of doing so!?!
Was funny to watch them all answering NO for the questions and making a fool of themselves.
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July 14, 2010 at 8:35 pm
Sonia, it’s NOT hypocrisy! Think of them as mentally ill, and throttle down from there. Remember how Lady MacBeth after the murder sleepwalks and tries to wash imaginary blood from her hands? That’s a hyperspeed equivalent of what so-called “pro-lifers” are doing.
She was trying to expunge the guilt of her base deed; they are at a more muted level of anguish trying to work out their issues with death. So, they’re not obviously mentally ill, but are acting in a very neurotic way– as the video amply demonstrates.
So, don’t be angry with them, but DO make it a point to ask the next demonstrators you observe these five questions:
1. Have you adopted any children?
2. Are you a foster parent?
3. Are you a guardian ad litem for children?
4. Are you a public school classroom volunteer?
5. Are you a Big Brother or Big Sister?
If they say they are, get details– one guy in that video only volunteered two hours a week! One woman only volunteered with the children in her church. And so on.
And if you videotape it, you can send it around.
But don’t think of them as lying or hypocritical. They’re only working through their somewhat serious issues with a sadly dysfunctional 12-step program.
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July 14, 2010 at 10:00 pm
Well Charles, those questions were made, they all said they didn’t do any of it (for the questions mentioned) and if they are mentally ill or not, giving them “rights” of accusing women who enters a clinic that practices abortion is quite dangerous, don’t you think?
We can compare that to giving a child a loaded gun, it is a horrible accident waiting to happen, and who to blame for that? Whoever allow them to be there enforcing something they don’t even understand.
Another example? Simple, those cowards who brain washed the stupid that blow the twin towers in NY, they brain wash those guys, gave them a lot of money and said that whatever they were about to do was OK under their GOD. Do i agree? Of course NOT! Do i think those guys were totally innocent? PLEASE!!! But the situation is “almost” (not to say equal at all), equal. Someone could get so mad for believing that what they do is SO right to do that they may do some drastic and stupid act in the name of their GOD!
That is why i will say again, EDUCATION.
If you teach teens to prevent, either boys and girls, things will change.
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July 14, 2010 at 10:23 pm
Sonia, you are so right about education and prevention. Educate parents about the dangers of their children engaging in sexual activity as well as the young people. Parents by far have the biggest influence over what their children do. And you cannot wait until they are 13 or 14 to start talking about what behavior is acceptable. Talk early and often.
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July 15, 2010 at 9:19 am
Totally agree, Susan, about educating. Unfortunately, a lot of parents, for whatever reason, do not/can not talk to their kids. On the other hand, the kids are learning so much in the schools and other sources. But no matter how much they know, they will always take risks, just like we did and we still do!
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July 15, 2010 at 10:08 am
Yes! And that risk taking is what is frustrating! But we have to keep educating because pregnancy may be way down the list of high-risk consequences of “sex for entertainment” that we see young people engaging in. The STDs that are being contracted in today’s culture can be deadly, cause infertility later or cancer. The mental health of our young people suffers as well. There is nothing that breaks my heart more than to have a young woman of 24 or 25 who bought that lie and has 5 or 6 partners in her past and a self-worth that is in the pit.
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July 15, 2010 at 2:32 pm
Do you provide counseling on contraception, Susan?
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July 15, 2010 at 8:09 pm
We have information on contraceptives, but because they require a doctor’s prescription we are not qualified to counsel.
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July 15, 2010 at 9:24 pm
WHAT??? I have been knocking around this topic in this region for decades and have never heard of a clinic’s hands being tied like that!! How did that happen? State law? Municipal law? Ku Klux Klan?????
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July 15, 2010 at 2:36 pm
Amen, Sonia!
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July 15, 2010 at 5:19 am
Susan, my state compiles “livable wage” figures every year, which is the amount it takes to get by without having to use any public assistance (except health care costs; these figures assume the parent(s) have health insurance or children who never need checkups, immunizations or ill child treatment). With 80 to 90 percent of postpartum single women who are in economically difficult circumstance still in those same circumstances 20 years later, you might find it instructive to include a question about household income.
The figures are eye-opening, to say the least:
Single, no child, rural, $34,132
urban, $35,526
Single, one child, rural, $47,923
urban, $$52,083
two rural, $59,446
two urban $65,250
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July 15, 2010 at 8:15 am
We don’t keep stats on economic status because we do not base our level of help on their economic need like many other government funded programs. We do not charge for our services. But, we do talk with them about their economic circumstance and about the difficulty of rising out of poverty with no job skills, education and with children.
The figures you quote are interesting–I think we must of raised our children with liveable wages near your state’s poverty level and didn’t know we were considered poor. And no, I don’t live in Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama or Arkansas. 🙂
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July 15, 2010 at 9:20 am
If you do not charge for your services, how do you keep the doors open? How do you raise money?
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July 15, 2010 at 9:53 am
People in our community that believe in what we do give us money. Individuals, businesses, churches and few small grants from other non-profits.
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July 15, 2010 at 2:30 pm
Mississippi, where the unofficial state motto is, “We make Texas look good.” The state I live in is costly to live in, but the quality of life is far superior to that of Texas, where the wealth (world’s 12th-largest economy) doesn’t begin to make a difference in most quality of life rankings. Taxes are lower than here, things are cheaper, but it’s not a state you’d care to move to, if you have children to raise.
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July 15, 2010 at 8:01 pm
That is funny–never heard that unofficial state motto.
“Quality of life rankings”–there is such a thing? Did my tax dollars go to pay for that too?
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July 15, 2010 at 9:00 pm
Susan, see my response at #21…..
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July 15, 2010 at 8:40 am
GREAT SUSAN!!!
That is one more reason to educate child, pre-teens, teens, and young adults. So they won’t bring a child to the world without having the meanings to raise them.
Once they get more info on the subject they get more aware of consequences. Abortion is there as an option, but with the education of them it can lower the numbers to a large extent.
All pro-lifers like to talk about BS, I am sorry, no offense here, but bla bla bla is easy to do, difficult is to ACT in PRO the people who really needs.
I will say something I don’t know now, but I wonder, after a pro-life do their job in preventing an abortion, and Susan I am not talking about the kind of work you do that sounds to be really different, but those protestors that goes around preaching something they don’t really do, what they do to help that young girl who is pregnant and the boyfriend left her with the responsibility of taking care of that baby? What does the pro-lifers offer in order to help all those teens that are in that situation, or young couple from the same urban or rural zone that Charles mention that barely can keep food for them, but sex is free, so they do it, of course, but than the woman gets pregnant and who helps them? Who feed them? Who gives them clothing and ways of raising that child? Government??? PLEASE…
That is why people keep going over and over to the same mistake.
Education how to prevent pregnancy, CONTRACEPTIVES, sperms are not BABIES.
Education hot to keep teens of getting pregnant and having to forget about their dreams.
Education for BOYS who most of the time does not take any responsibility in raising the child, that HIS sperm helped to get the girl pregnant.
I am a single mom, my mom NEVER explained to me how I was going to get pregnant if I was to have sex, and of course I did it… My boyfriend at the time, his family said (back in 1985):
– Well he is a man; she should be the one preventing.
NO, I was a girl, and like me there is a lot of girls out there that also don’t have knowledge about how they get pregnant because moms are ashamed of talking about sex with daughter and also with sons.
I always told my daughter everything, she knew from early age that pregnancy was a big responsibility and how did that happen. I never invented any weird stories to her about birds that bring baby or nonsense things like that.
EDUCATION, INFORMATION = PREVENTION
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July 15, 2010 at 8:44 am
Peace can only last where human rights are respected, where the people are fed, and where individuals and nations are free. True peace with oneself and with the world around us can only be achieved through the development of mental peace.Dali Lama
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July 15, 2010 at 9:21 am
“I am the Walrus” John Lennon
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July 15, 2010 at 9:45 am
Sonia & Susan what a breath of fresh air!! I ran a clinic that performed abortions for 20 years and Susan all I wanted to know was (like you) when a woman came to us that she was given “unbiased” information on what was available to her…to listen to what she said and to just let her talk! Sometimes that is all that a woman needs is to just talk! If she left there and decided to terminate or if she left and decided to continue that pregnancy I was always”proud” that she left there educatated on what was available! Women do know their options but they haven’t always sat down with someone and really discussed them! I did have a contact at one of the “crisis pregnancy centers” that you remind me of Susan and I never hesitated to refer a pt there if that is what she needed…and she never hesitated to refer a pt to me is that is what she needed! I had many pts ove the years that came back to show me their babies….I was always proud when I gave a woman all the info she needed to make a decision that was right for her! Sometimes it was not to have an abortion….that I think is what “choice” really means! Just like Sonia supported her friend in her time of need…even though that was not the decision Sonia would have made….(Please spare me Dunkle!!) I don’t want to hear it…..
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July 15, 2010 at 11:47 am
What a great post, Lorraine. It is so refreshing to hear from someone who actually worked in an abortion clinic and who saw the “real world” out there. There are so many misperceptions about clinics, about the owners, the staff. Many pro-lifers would probably not believe at how thrilled you were to see the baby of someone who had come into your facility.
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July 15, 2010 at 10:12 am
What is this! Lorraine wants me to spare her, Sonia wants me not to crucify her! What could I possibly say that would so upset you? Oh, now I know.
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July 15, 2010 at 10:15 am
Oh come on John… you know exactly what we mean with that.
😉
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July 15, 2010 at 3:03 pm
Yeah.
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