It seems that every once in a while, we get a new, energized abortion rights advocate who starts screaming about how every pro-lifer is a “terrorist.” They usually also add how the Catholic Church has murdered more people than any other religion in the world, but I don’t have the time or energy to research what the Catholic Church has done over the centuries so I don’t opine on those comments. However, I do have some experience in the world of abortion, so I would like to chat a little about whether or not all pro-lifers are “terrorists.”
I guess the first thing one needs to do is define “terrorist.” In my head, the true terrorists are, of course, the folks who fly crowded airplanes into buildings, who blow themselves up in crowded market squares and who plot the death of innocent civilians or government workers. You know who I am talking about: Bin Laden, Timothy McVeigh, and that nut ball up in Norway who recently killed all of those kids. Then there are the Micheal Griffins, James Kopps and Paul Hills of the world. True terrorists, they.
But then, way on the other end of the spectrum, are those pro-lifers who just sit in their house, avoiding all demonstrations and who rarely opine about their position on the abortion issue. They might pray at home or in church for an end in abortion and send some money to their local pro-life organization, but I have a very tough time calling them “terrorists” and I suspect that most pro-choicers would also be reluctant to affix that label to them.
Where I get stuck is when I think of those folks who go to their local abortion clinic on a regular basis and publicly demonstrate. Are they “terrorists?” Let’s talk about their motivations and their actions.
I guess your average protestorgoes to the clinic in the hopes of stopping an abortion, whether it is by engaging in prayer (don’t even ask me how that would work) or, if they chance, talking one on one with the women as they approach the
abortion facility. Once they identify the woman, they might start screaming at them. Some even resort to the use of a bullhorn. Now, a woman who has made an appointment for an abortion usually is warned by clinic staff that there may be protestors outside so when she sees the anti-abortion folks out front, she knows they smell blood. Then scream at her that she is “killing your baby!” They may make a crying baby sound and shriek “Mommy, don’t let them pull my legs off!” Sometimes it is just a simple “Murderer!” The woman may have been warned, she may have seen demonstrations on television, but she is rarely prepared for this scene. And, to top it off, she doesn’t want to be at the clinic in the first place.
Over the years, I have seen this scenario played out in the front of many clinics. The unique perspective that I have, however, is that on a number of occasions, I have walked with the women passed the protestors into the actual clinic. Some gave me permission to accompany them through the entire abortion process. I have seen (and the protestors haven’t) how upset the women are when they sign in, whose blood pressure has risen because they are so angry at these strangers outside the clinic who don’t know her or anything about her personal situation. I’ve seen women who have already shed a few tears as she contemplated her decision shed even more tears in the waiting room. And then, after all of the theatrics outside, I’ve then seen them have their abortion.
Not all pro-lifers are terrorists. That’s a silly statement. But I would conclude that to the women who walked the anti-abortion gauntlet, who could feel the hatred, who heard the screaming, who would prefer to be just with alone with their loved ones – I would say that those particular women were indeed “terrorized.”
Related articles
- Are All Pro-Lifers “Terrorists?” (abortion.ws)
- Pro-lifers become papist: three stories (insightscoop.typepad.com)
- 60-40 Nation: (brothersjuddblog.com)
- Toss Out the Bumper Stickers for a Moment! (abortion.ws)
- Why are so many prominent pro-lifers becoming Catholic? (osv.com)
- ‘Pro-life’ terrorists name themselves ‘most peaceful social movement of all time’ (dailykos.com)
- No One Cares About the Science (abortion.ws)
- Twin reduction abortions: Why do they trouble pro-choicers? (slate.com)
- It’s Time for a Pro-Quality-of-Life Movement (crooksandliars.com)
- How much of Pro-Choice is About the Money? (chariotofreaction.blogspot.com)



August 15, 2011 at 5:38 pm
The U.S. government and media often portray terrorists as Others, as nefarious individuals or organizations outside our national boundaries who harm or kill innocent civilians because of their fundamentalist religious beliefs. The suggestion is put forth that individuals or organizations with fundamentalist religious beliefs, often engaged in a battle for their God, demonstrate harmful and sometimes deadly dispositions toward women in their policies and practices which they consider morally and legally right. Specifically, the suggestion is that these Others are living within the boundaries of the United States and implementing policies and practices effecting women that frame reproductive health as something to be controlled not by women, but by these Others. From the perspective of a Pennsylvania reproductive health center, these Others, whether they’re politicians, judges or Catholic right-wing activists, are more closely aligned with mindsets of many fundamentalist religious terrorists.
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August 15, 2011 at 6:29 pm
“The suggestion is put forth that individuals or organizations with fundamentalist religious beliefs, often engaged in a battle for their God, demonstrate harmful and sometimes deadly dispositions toward women in their policies and practices which they consider morally and legally right.”
How can anybody write that sentence with a straight mind? Oh, Pat, am I happy she’s back and am I glad she’s on your side.
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August 16, 2011 at 12:59 pm
I’m glad she is back also, and I’m also glad she is on my side !!
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August 15, 2011 at 8:35 pm
I stopped reading after US Government and Media! Please, don’t you have any thoughts of your own?
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August 16, 2011 at 5:46 am
Yea, Kate. Don’t you have any thoughts of your own? On second thought, we don’t want to know.
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August 16, 2011 at 8:53 am
Pat, remember a few month ago when I thought some of my comments were disappearing? I got worried that editing could be used against my words and I quit, like Kate, for a day or two. But I couldn’t stay away either and decided to give abortion.ws another try. For months everything’s been great. But then someone started to use my name for comments I didn’t make. It began on “Toss Out the Bumper Stickers . . .” and has continued with the above. As you can see that could get really dangerous, so, this is what I have to do. The next time a comment that I didn’t make appears under my name, I gotta go. And I’ll never even look at abortion.ws again, so I don’t get tempted back.
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August 16, 2011 at 1:03 pm
Wow, John, I hadn’t noticed that but I have to say that I dont look at stuff that closely. If anyone is posting things under John’s name, if that is even possible, they better stop it right now. Indeed, John, if you suspect that someone has done that, contact me right away through this world famous blog, give me the exact post and we’ll follow up on it….some people drive me crazy but you know well, John, that folks on BOTH sides of this issue do very, very crazy things that are not necessarily above board….this stuff comes with the terrority.
I hope you stay, it might be boring without you!
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August 16, 2011 at 3:52 pm
I won’t be bored but life will certainly be less interesting if I leave. I think I’ve noted the six comments under my name that I did not make, two here and four on “Toss out . . .” So, I do contact you right away through this world famous blog, and do indicate the exact post.
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August 15, 2011 at 6:23 pm
Another excellent post, Pat, but the people you describe in paragraphs 4-7 I would describe this way: “Some hate baby killing enough that they go to where the babies are killed. They go there for various reasons but the bottom line is they cannot let those young folks die alone.”
Maybe you’re stuck on whether we’re terrorists or not, but most other killers’ helpers think we are. Here’s the interesting part. Most of us pro-lifers would agree with you that Griffin, Kopp, and Hill are terrorists. But I keep telling my prolife friends: If you agree to that, you’re next. Anybody who goes to a mill will be dealt with as a terrorist. And after that? — those “who rarely opine about their position on the abortion issue.” It’s that “rarely” that will get them. Just once and they’ll be through too.
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August 16, 2011 at 1:05 pm
I am not sure, John, that I agree with you when you say that “most killer’s helpers” think you folks are terrorists. That might be going too far for them. But, for me, I do think that some of the things that occur outside an abortion clinic do result to some extent in the “terrorizing” of a patient.
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August 15, 2011 at 8:20 pm
How about this question. if the baby was aware of what was about to happen to them..who would they say is the “terrorist” in that situation. Certainly not the people trying to offer help to the moms going in. I would say the “terrorists” are the people who want that little one’s life snuffed out! (for whatever reason or excuse they can come up with) God help this upside down world we live in!
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August 16, 2011 at 1:06 pm
IF the baby were aware, etc., etc. When that day comes, “anonomous”, we can have that discussion. Just let me know when it’s here….
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August 16, 2011 at 1:15 pm
Typical so-called “pro-lifer” rhetorical device: positing a situation which cannot exist, hoping to lure the listener into believing that it could be real. Entertaining that belief, the listener has weakened his critical abilities and is now open to even more destruction of his resistance to outright deception.
The fact is that until well after birth, the fetus has no concept of what is going on outside it. The child is the one who learns the difference between self and external reality.
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August 17, 2011 at 11:36 am
The fact is that until well after birth, Chuckles has no concept of what is going on outside it.
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August 16, 2011 at 5:10 am
Contemplating a moral issue, such as an abortion, is an invitation to reflect on its ethical, psychological, and socio-economical complexities. The anti-abortion activists’ oversimplification of abortion for an unintended pregnancy, about which is a deeply personal and grueling decision process, is an egregious affront to a woman and to her abilities to make the best choices for herself and her families. The activists who harass women at reproductive health clinics demonstrate utter disrespect for them and complete disregard for their socioeconomic and psychological situations. As Katha Pollitt wrote in The Nation, women are reframed out of the abortion conversation. Their experiences, their bodies, their healthcare and their struggles are meaningless when framed against the fetus. Arguing for the life of the fetus, antiabortion activists essentially erase women’s agency. Nowhere is this symbolic annihilation more evident than in the streets and sidewalks adjacent to abortion clinics.
There are lessons to be learned from leading terror scholars. Anti-abortion activists threaten the security of others using calculated, deliberate and inhumane tactics to create a state of terror in the minds of targeted women and health care providers. Of course, their purpose is to achieve political or religious advantage (or both). And, like many of the protesters at Allentown Women’s Center and at reproductive health clinics across this nation, the activists are usually affiliated with a fundamentalist religious group who target civilians and nongovernmental groups. As with militia, white supremacy and radical fundamentalism groups, these terrorists lack the power to changes laws they find intolerable. Regrettably, unacknowledged by all too few city, state and federal officials, the activists’ actions invade women’s privacy and are humiliating, hostile, threatening and bullying. And as is evidenced in Allentown and elsewhere, these activists act with impunity.
Contemplating a moral issue, such as an unintended pregnancy, is an invitation to reflect on all its ethical, psychological, and socio-economical complexities. I would add that it is an invitation to acknowledge the woman in the body as well in how she is approached.
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August 16, 2011 at 1:17 pm
The results arrived at in contemplating a moral issue such as abortion usually say more about the person doing the contemplating.
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August 16, 2011 at 7:33 am
Maybe if you stopped harassing pro lifers who wish to HELP women you would understand what the “moral issue” really is! if you have no morals, how in the heck do expect to convince anyone of anything?
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August 16, 2011 at 8:21 am
Who is harassing prolifers?
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August 16, 2011 at 8:57 am
Nope, not my words, again. I’ll ignore this because it has appeared before my comment in #1.
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August 16, 2011 at 1:10 pm
Whoever is pretending to be Dunkle, cut the shit. I want everyone to be above board here, we dont need that kind of crap. If you do it again, you’ll be banned – if I can find out how to ban someone 🙂
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August 16, 2011 at 2:07 pm
Above board? Right! Like anonomous and anonymous and Anonymous. Cowards, I’d say.
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August 16, 2011 at 2:11 pm
Especially the Pro Life Anonymous as they have been asked several times to use a name.
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August 16, 2011 at 3:40 pm
Cowards are the ones who murder defenseless little babies and the ones that assist women inside the killing mills to do so. Cowards also come in the form of the ‘above board’ ones who disguise their true identity as christsmothershelpers in emails and don’t have the courage to correct totally inappropriate titles for them on websites! Right Rev?? The pot’s calling the kettle black again.
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August 16, 2011 at 3:59 pm
Kate, Tim, names you want? I got a bunch for you. Anonymous is Shirley sometimes, and Fred other times, mostly. Anonomous is Richard, Hanna, Patsy, Sid, Sam, Pam, etc. Sound familiar?
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August 16, 2011 at 3:55 pm
Damn, Pat, why ain’t you prolife!
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August 16, 2011 at 1:09 pm
I will ask the same question that the fake John Dunkle asked: Anonomous, who is harassing pro-lifers? If you frequent a clinic regularly, can you tell me exactly what they are doing to you?
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August 16, 2011 at 4:22 pm
I’ll give my answer because I like the question: “who is harassing pro-lifers?” I’ve been harassed by killers’ helpers. In Reading they dragged me to court three times. Since they accused me of harassing clients, I had to pay for their “continually running” tapes. Their excuse was always the same, “We don’t have them because we were rewinding the machines.”
At the Allentown Women’s Center Sharon Davis called the police to say I had made a threat to burn down the building after I had just finished telling her that I could never do that because I don’t know how and I don’t have the guts. When the clops came, I said, “Look, someone needs money and he knows it’s right there in the bank. He’d love to have the know-how and the courage to rob that bank. Can you arrest someone for wishful thinking?”
But I’ve been harassed even more egregiously by a “pro-lifer.” She has attacked me to my face and behind my back, in her newsletter and in her emails. She has sent the attacks to the public, the diocese, the FBI, the local and state police, my children, my wife and anyone else she could think of. Four years ago I began keeping a record of her attacks. Right now it’s more than thirty pages. It makes for interesting reading and anybody is welcome to it.
That’s who’s harassing pro-lifers.
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August 16, 2011 at 4:29 pm
Can you imagine John Dunkle complaining about harassing when he protests at clinics, at doctors’ homes and at directors’ homes? Karma’s a bitch, eh?
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August 16, 2011 at 6:59 pm
As you say, that’s protesting, not harassing. (What the heck is Karma?)
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August 18, 2011 at 5:57 pm
when i went regularly to pray in front of a clinic, obscene gestures and projectiles thrown from passing cars were the norm.
one woman turned around and parked and came and spit in my face.
that was the only time that i was harassed by a woman, until i got the death threats on the phone. i have no idea of the gender of whoever sent the death threat on the letter wrapped around the brick that was sent through my front window.
interestingly enough, the death threats came after i was no longer a regular. when my roommate moved in, she took priority over going to the clinic to pray.
but things like that are something that often choicers are unaware of, just as lifers are unaware of the death threats that clinic staff get regularly.
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August 20, 2011 at 12:12 pm
I just do not believe this, Rog. You are a quiet and peaceful protester. I am super active: I even hold sign,A KILLER LIVES HERE, outside the homes of five abortionists.I get the obscene gesture occasionally, about half a much as I get a “thumbs up.” I have never had a projectile thrown at me and I’ve been doing this since before you were born, 1970. And nobody has spit in my face yet, or even threatened to.
What world do you live in?
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August 16, 2011 at 9:17 am
We would be wise to avoid saying that “all prolifers are terrorists” because it’s clear that some prolifers are not, nor will ever be, terrorists. Others are suspect. Recognized experts on religion and terrorism such a Jurgensmeyer, M., McCauley, C. & Moskalenko, S., and Stern, J., provide a lens through which to look at Allentown’s protesters. To begin, three male antichoicers, practicing some form of Catholicism, have become radicalized in their antiabortion activism outside abortion clinics. They are Saturday regulars at in Allentown PA where they harass, shame and terrorize women, their companions, clinic staff and volunteers. They suffer from religious tribalism, that evil and ultimately self-destructive mythology that identifies others as less than human. It’s clear to even casual observers that these men feed off each other’s bravado, commune in the sharing of their personal stories and work with bloated self-righteousness. These men seem to have a fear of a godless universe, of chaos, of loose rules, and of loneliness. Their slogans mask fear and humiliation and greed for power and, often, wounded masculinity.
Several of the female antichoicers work diligently to appear compassionate in their offerings. They proselytize with half-truths and lies then project their habits of lying onto the clinic staff and volunteers. But truth is not what counts for them. Like terrorists or for those who come to support them, it is the perception and pain, not truth, that leads these women to terrorism. They seem themselves defending sacred territory or protecting the rights of their coreligionists. They view people who practice other versions of their faith, or other faiths, as infidels or sinners. Their faith offers tradition, religion, as a buffer against the failures of modernity and globalization. And with their feelings of repeated, small humiliations that add up to a feeling of nearly unbearable despair and frustrations, they relinquish their moral compass to a willingness to do anything—even commit terrorism—in the belief that attacking the oppressor will restore their sense of dignity, their sense of righteousness and their sense of worth.
But much of the behavior of the men and women antichoicers is characteristic of terrorists. First, terrorism is aimed at noncombatants. This characteristic of terrorism distinguishes it from war-fighting. Second, terrorists use violence for dramatic purpose: instilling fear in the target audience is often more important than the physical result. Witness the grotesque imagery, the myths about breast cancer and post abortion stress syndrome, the regret, their God talk and, don’t forget, all the shame. This deliberate creation of dread is what distinguishes terrorism from simple murder or assault.
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August 16, 2011 at 1:12 pm
On the other hand, Kate, what I see on some of the films that is occuring at Allentown looks rather lame to me. I forget the lay out of the clinic, but are the women entering the facility really exposed to the protestors and are the women affected by their activities?
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August 16, 2011 at 1:59 pm
If the clients drive into the fenced parking lot, they are apt to first encounter the protesters at the car gate. This is the one location where protesters use the surrounding areas to post their signs and where they stand, often in attempts to stop cars, to hand out their literature. Once they are out of their cars, they are subject to protesters yelling. And then again as the cross a public street, they are often surrounded by protesters who stand right next to them or reach their arms out to them with papers in hand or yell.
As I said above, I intervieweded every counselor for my documentary about this case. Every single one of them reported that the protesters really are bothered by the protesters, some more than others. Some of the women reported that they wanted to testify against the protesters for the harm they inflict.
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August 16, 2011 at 3:47 pm
Kate, in your deepest desire to be non-biased and fair, how about we let the women that have their beautiful babies thanks to the pro-lifers presence and are deliriously happy they trusted God and embraced LIFE also testify FOR the pro-life advocates for the LOVE, MERCY, and COMPASSION they’ve shown them! We all know how unbiased and neutral you are. I’m sure your documentary will attest to the same.
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August 16, 2011 at 4:03 pm
Taken from the Allentown Women’s Center 2011 web page:
Protesters at AWC are not violent, although some do shout and carry graphic signs. Protesters can be harassing and intimidating. Some protesters may try to force you to take literature, so it is best to walk with escorts around you. Since AWC provides may services, keep in mind that the protesters will not know why you are entering our building–your confidentiality is assured.
‘Nuff said (Protesters are NOT VIOLENT) and for the record they don’t shout – merely try to make themselves heard above the pro-death escorts attempt to drown out our message.
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August 16, 2011 at 4:52 pm
Pro Lifers are dangerous people
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August 16, 2011 at 7:04 pm
Your mother’s a dangerous person.
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August 16, 2011 at 11:11 pm
John,
You are right.
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August 16, 2011 at 10:12 am
is abortion a simple murder? how do you define it Kate? you never answered my question regarding what the babies would feel if they knew what was going to happen to them as they are being led to their deaths? simply skipped right over that one. I think I am going to start calling you “COPY and PASTE KATE” seems more appropriate doncha think?
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August 16, 2011 at 1:15 pm
I dont know about Kate but I have said on several occasions that abortion is a form of killing. DUH>>>>>
And, again, maybe thousands of years from now when a fetus can someone grow a brain enough that they can hear what is going on outside their little home…your question, anonomous, would be more relevant.
I mean, c’mon, is that the best argument you got??
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August 16, 2011 at 1:20 pm
“anonomous”, how do you feel about your “rescued babies” being sexually assaulted by their father by the age of 3 because you weren’t involved in their nurture?
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August 16, 2011 at 4:04 pm
Again, reject personal responsibility and project the responsibility on to others.
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August 16, 2011 at 6:46 pm
Well, if rejecting personal responsibility works for you, go for it. You write like Dunkle would if he were faced with a 500-word essay.
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August 16, 2011 at 10:52 am
Watch what you type! Pa. judge OKs felony charges over Facebook posts.. Can you imagine what he would say if he/she were to read the comments and personal attacks (namely Kate going after Deanna) that were posted on here? Not only that, COPY AND PASTE, you are now calling pro lifers Terrorists? If the VP isn’t going to get away with it, what makes you think you can get away with it? We are not going to stand for your slanderous remarks anymore…and we now have the courts to back us up. YOU are warned.
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August 16, 2011 at 11:12 am
Where in the above is it written that prolifers are called terrorists? I’m drawing comparisons from profiles of terrorists to the behaviors of some prolifers? It’s a legitimate comparison backed with scholarly research as well as astute observations. And for that, you are using the Internet to make a threat?
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August 16, 2011 at 12:11 pm
backed with scholarly research? all hail, assistant professor! NOT! and as for astute observations, YOU are highly biased in what you profess to see and hear. You print lies and falsehoods at every chance you get. You paint a broad brush on all pro lifers (don’t deny this either, you know it is the truth) You need to pull the plank out of your own eye before you start crying wolf. and as for using the internet to make a threat (show me where I did this!) I can and will promise you that I will use all in my power protect my reputation and the reputation of my pro life friends and families. You have no right defaming us or our families, on that, you have crossed the line.
and stop trying to change the subject to avoid answering the two questions I asked you earlier.
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August 16, 2011 at 12:30 pm
Well then you’ll have to talk to the FBI, state troopers, lawyers and the ACLU because they have their eyes on anti abortion individuals and groups. Tell them that they’re highly biased, print lies and falsehoods. I don’t get all my information just from my own astute observations. I synthesize data from other sources, legitimate, legal and scholarly sources. Sorry if that bothers you.
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August 16, 2011 at 3:55 pm
You mean the same groups that fill their circular files with all the weekly pro-death gibberish sent to it by Ellen Bell and Doug Marsh.
Doug Marsh here. Pro-life advocate arrived at 8:15 and walked towards Keats St. Advocate is now standing in the yellow line crosswalk. Pro-life advocate offered literature to client. It was accepted by client (but don’t worry we’ll send one of our deathscorts inside and get literature back because we really don’t believe in choice – we just say we do when it suits our needs.) Oh for the record, Diane prefers this job but hey, Sharon Davis is just as adept in this arena in a pinch. Cheshie is a little too intimidating so don’t let her do it anymore.
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August 16, 2011 at 7:06 pm
love it
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August 16, 2011 at 12:33 pm
Oh, and one more thing, whoever you may be–I’m guessing from your charming patois that you could be Joyce, Mary, Katie or Kathy—I’m not inclined to continue with your charade. You either come out of the closet or expect no further responses from me.
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August 16, 2011 at 1:24 pm
Kate, how can you resist her plea, “Kin I play? Huh? Huh? Kin I play?”
Glad to see you’re able to put in some time on this site.
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August 16, 2011 at 3:56 pm
Patois?? Yuck – at first I thought you were talking dirty to me!
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August 16, 2011 at 11:22 am
Perhaps I should post a video of one of the female protesters calling escorts terrorists. Just to keep things interesting. Would you like to see that? Or how about calling the clinic a slaughterhouse? Or how about calling volunteers and women murderers? Or how about calling an escort fag boy? Or calling several escorts stiff-necked Jews?
The lack of civility has its way with everyone, now and then.
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August 16, 2011 at 11:40 am
Geeze, Kate, you keep repeating this, and you shouldn’t! Your husband Jimmy is the only one over there I know who’s called someone a fag boy! Why do you keep bringing it up?
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August 16, 2011 at 12:58 pm
Maybe your circus on Union Blvd. would be fun to watch also.
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August 16, 2011 at 10:56 am
For those who are interested, Frances Kissling on public radio.
http://being.publicradio.org/programs/2011/ccp-kissling/
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August 16, 2011 at 1:00 pm
You misspelled her name again. It’s Quisling.
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August 16, 2011 at 11:41 am
They are definitely terrorists. If they stand on the sidewalks calling the women names, telling how horrible she is among other things they are terrorizing her mentally. Unfortunately words have a huge affect on people and certainly on the women who is about to make such a hard choice.
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August 16, 2011 at 12:18 pm
It’s often not the words but their physical presence that women feel when they encounter them, not knowing what they might do to them.
From counselors and staff in clinics such as Dr. Tiller’s to more localized, early term abortion clinics, I’ve learned that the story is pretty much the same: The women fear the protesters, are angry with the protesters, are annoyed with the protesters or, once in a blue moon, ignore the protesters because they believe the protesters are irrelevant. The overarching emotion is dread.
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August 16, 2011 at 1:06 pm
“The women fear the protesters . . . The overarching emotion is dread.”
Would that it were so. I’m afraid that will happen only when our perverted laws get straightened out. Make the killers’ helpers realize they will be severely punished for helping to kill that child. Then we’ll see some dread.
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August 16, 2011 at 3:41 pm
What do you suppose the women do with the pregnancy they don’t want or can’t afford? This has been done forever but since it is legal there is no more hush hush about and it is out in the open people seem to make a big deal out of it.
Like a said before, the world would be a better place if there wasn’t any abortions needed and ultimately that is the women’s choice and that is the end of it.
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August 16, 2011 at 7:11 pm
” . . .with the pregnancy they don’t want . . .” — as soon as you say this, Milly, you lose all credibility. It’s the baby they don’t want, the baby, the baby, the baby, the baby, the baby, the baby . . . .
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August 16, 2011 at 12:17 pm
There is no doubt that a subset of Pro Lifers are terrorists.
They intimidate and cause fear and real harm to people who have lawfully chosen to follow choice.
We must not be so ethnocentric. We should realize that terrorists exists in our own communities. Worst of all they terrorize women who exercise their lawful right to control their own body.
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August 16, 2011 at 7:14 pm
“Subset,” wow! J, you must have taken a course in sigh koll oh gee. Right?
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August 16, 2011 at 11:19 pm
?….?
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August 16, 2011 at 12:19 pm
I believe there are a lot of pro lifers that fit the description of terrorists.
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August 16, 2011 at 7:14 pm
but not half so well as you do
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August 16, 2011 at 12:21 pm
Yep. Terrorists is what pro-lifers are. They attempt to control women’s bodies, to change laws that will harm them, deprive them of choice and play silly games with their very lives. And I’m not even talking about organisations such as Operation Rescue who puts the names and addresses of doctors who perform a LEGAL and VALID procedure.
And why? Because instead of uniting and fighting their nonsense as soon as it appears, we debate whether they are “terrorists” or not. We debate whether or not they are allowed to grant women or withold women’s human rights.
That we have seen so many anti-women legislations this year should NOT be surprising. We need to be there EVERY SINGLE TIME there’s an anti-choice rally. Every single time. We need to let them know that women have a choice, that their civil and human rights are not up for debate. Unless we do so, they will continue to make decisions for us, we will continue to let them pretend they know better than women.
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August 16, 2011 at 12:26 pm
I laud your comments and would emphasize that many of these so-called prolifers fail to honor the human rights of women who are different from them, who view life differently.
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August 16, 2011 at 1:09 pm
“different from” — hey, you’re getting there, Kate
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August 16, 2011 at 2:14 pm
I find a lot of what the pro Lifers do to fall into the category of terrorism.
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August 16, 2011 at 7:16 pm
falls
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August 16, 2011 at 12:44 pm
But then, way on the other end of the spectrum, are those pro-lifers who just sit in their house, avoiding all demonstrations and who rarely opine about their position on the abortion issue. They might pray at home or in church for an end in abortion and send some money to their local pro-life organization, but I have a very tough time calling them “terrorists” and I suspect that most pro-choicers would also be reluctant to affix that label to them.
Gee that’s really big of you to not call people who stay at home and pray for an end to abortion terrorists.
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August 16, 2011 at 1:10 pm
ooof
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August 16, 2011 at 1:19 pm
Thanks! It’s the least I could do. But I am confused, I thought you were pro-choice, or is that the other anonomous? I’m getting very confused here.
And boys and girls, can everyone cool it on the “I’m gonna sue you, you’re committing a felony, blah, blah” stuff? My goal here is to have a stimulating conversation in response to my world famous blogs.
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August 16, 2011 at 12:49 pm
Over the years, I have seen this scenario played out in the front of many clinics. The unique perspective that I have, however, is that on a number of occasions, I have walked with the women passed the protestors into the actual clinic. Some gave me permission to accompany them through the entire abortion process. I have seen (and the protestors haven’t) how upset the women are when they sign in, whose blood pressure has risen because they are so angry at these strangers outside the clinic who don’t know her or anything about her personal situation. I’ve seen women who have already shed a few tears as she contemplated her decision shed even more tears in the waiting room. And then, after all of the theatrics outside, I’ve then seen them have their abortion.
Pat, what you’re missing from your little field trip is the baby in the jar afterwards – how they have to piece it all together and make sure all the body parts are accounted for. Also, so kind of you to be their ‘abortion buddy’ but are you also with them when they shed tears over what they’ve done in taking their precious child’s’ life? Or do you part ways at the mill’s door – good deed having already been done?
Gotta give you credit though, you must have guts of steel to have witnessed such a horrific ‘procedure’ apparently more than once. Good for you.
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August 16, 2011 at 1:25 pm
I certainly do not have “guts of steel,” anonymous (I hope I have the spelling correct). I have said time and time again that the whole experience is a sad one. Everyone with a brain knows that there are two entities involved, that’s what makes the decision to abort so hard for women. They know if they abort, they will not be having a baby in several months. But where we part ways is that I choose to focus on the needs of that woman. And I dont give a darn whether she chooses abortion, birth or adoption. I just want her to have the option and, indeed, to help avoid her being in that difficult position, the clinics will prescribe birth control so they are never forced to confront that heart wrenching situation in the first place.
Okay, now come back and blast me and tell me I’m a murderer or murderer’s assistant or something and tell me that the fetus/baby needs to be protected.
My sincere hope is that women never found themselves in that difficult situation to begin with, that there was absolutely no need for abortion…
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August 16, 2011 at 2:36 pm
No need to blast you about being a murderer or murderer’s assistant. You’ve done that well enough on your own and yes, the baby needs to be protected. (Also, Pat – I hope you looked at my earlier post and tried to figure out where YOU fit in on the list regarding the grisly abortion killing business and it’s hierarchy.) It’s a shame that although you acknowledge that the baby needs to be protected on the one hand, you aren’t willing to offer the child the protection it is entitled to as a member of the human family created in the image and likeness of God. You don’t seem like such a bad guy so it’s a shame that you don’t have eyes of faith to see the window to the womb and the precious child growing inside of it’s mother.
But are you really kidding me (or yourself) when you say the clinic will prescribe birth control so that women are never forced to confront the heart wrenching decision of abortion?? Are you not aware a huge majority of women going into these mills are there precisely because of failed contraception? Abby Johnson has stated that Planned Parenthood gives out low dosage birth control to young girls in the hopes that it will fail and they will return to them for their abortion. They also hope to get them to return more than once during their reproductive years. After all, if you are on birth control and find yourself unexpectedly pregnant, then just have an abortion because you didn’t want the baby in the first place. ABC easy as 1 2 3 as simple as do re mi. That’s why these mills give out birth control pills like they were jelly beans. It fits right into their ‘unholy trinity’ (again the polar opposite of our Triune God – God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.) The abortion mill’s unholy trinity is comprised of (1) contraception – the killing of babies at their VERY EARLIEST stage, (2) sex education (yeah baby – get in those schools early and get those kids working those cucumbers and condoms – indoctrinate them young, alter their families basic system of values into the permissiveness of if it feels good go for it culture of today’s youth thanks be to you pro-aborts. After all, you need to keep business going and if kids are stripped of their values then they’re fair game to buy into your theology) and lastly but not by any means the least, (3) the abortion itself. Voila!! Naturally you will do all of this with the perverted, twisted and deceptive logic that you in fact trying to prevent pregnancy. Pat – I have to add – you bought into it.
You are also right, Pat, – these women who abort know they will not have their baby in a few months. Likewise, the generations that should have sprung forth from that child will never be as well. Abortion has consequences that will last for eternity. Only a fool would wager their eternal salvation and support abortion. Satan’s Fool.
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August 16, 2011 at 2:51 pm
Oh, gawd, here we go again with the same, tired tactic of effective saturation and repetition—same old stories about birth control and Abby Johnson and Satan. Like I said before, there are three components to effective saturation: being repetitive, being ubiquitous and being consistent. The message must be repeated cover and over, it must be everywhere and it must be shared across commentators: e.g. “God is offended by abortion” or “Abortion mills give out birth control pills because they want young girls to forget to take them and then get pregnant and then have more abortions” or “Abby Johnson said. . . “.
Veracity and hard data have no relationship to the efficacy of saturation. There is a psychological effect of being exposed to the same message over and over, regardless of whether it’s true or if it even makes sense, e.g., “There is a direct connection between abortion and breast cancer.” If something is said enough times, by enough people, many will come to accept it as truth.
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August 16, 2011 at 3:26 pm
Kate is the messenger of reason.
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August 16, 2011 at 4:18 pm
Kind’ve like Dr. Bernard Nathanson when he perpetuated the lies and the number of women being killed by illegal abortions over and over until the lies became truth. Your truth, dearest Kate, and the whole abortion industry in fact is based on solid lies! Read Dr. Nathanson’s book, The Hand of God: A Journey from Death to Life.” In this book he states ALL THE LIES that the abortion industry was founded on. Your Hero is now OUR HERO!! How’s that float your boat?
May his soul and all the souls of the faithful departed through the mercy of God, Rest in Peace. Amen. Okay, okay so he’s not your hero now but I’ll just bet you a buck he was at one time now wasn’t he? Truth Kate – no more lies.
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August 16, 2011 at 7:18 pm
snap
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August 17, 2011 at 4:45 am
Everybody, reread the piece that begins, “No need to blast you . . .” and linger over paragraph 2. I’m gonna have to do two newsletters.
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August 16, 2011 at 1:25 pm
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orange/os-abortion-doctor-ruling-20110815,0,3932318.story
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August 16, 2011 at 1:33 pm
In my opinion, so-called “pro-lifers” are not so much terrorists as they are simply bullies. Given a free hand, I could clear any clinic neighborhood of the demonstrators– but I don’t try that because I know I would risk arrest. The demonstrators only go as far as the law protects them, just the same way a bully only picks on those he knows will not fight back.
As soon as the Allentown mayor decides that they’re a threat and changes his position from toleration of bullying to forbidding it, they will stop, just like they stopped their worst excesses in Milwaukee once the City Attorney was replaced.
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August 16, 2011 at 4:12 pm
Tell me what tactics you would use to clear these neighborhoods? Would it be considered terroristic?
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August 16, 2011 at 4:20 pm
RESPONSIBLE Right to Life Says:
August 16, 2011 at 1:33 pm
In my opinion, so-called “pro-lifers” are not so much terrorists as they are simply bullies. Given a free hand, I could clear any clinic neighborhood of the demonstrators– but I don’t try that because I know I would risk arrest.
Spoken like the a terrorist! Or in your case – a terrorist wanna be.
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August 16, 2011 at 1:45 pm
John Dunkle Says:
August 15, 2011 at 6:29 pm
“The suggestion is put forth that individuals or organizations with fundamentalist religious beliefs, often engaged in a battle for their God, demonstrate harmful and sometimes deadly dispositions toward women in their policies and practices which they consider morally and legally right.”
How can anybody write that sentence with a straight mind? Oh, Pat, am I happy she’s back and am I glad she’s on your side.
– – – – –
John – she does it very easily. You see even with all of her degrees and titles what Kate doesn’t realize is that she is also part of an organization however, hers has a very grisly belief system. The abortion ‘organization’ or ‘cult’ if you will is fundamentally a business – a profit driven business I might add, based on the perverse and misguided concept that it is a ‘human right’ for a woman to have “abortion on demand without apology. Period.’ Those are Kate’s words, sick and pathetic as they may be. It is her mantra and ideologically and cleverly marketed by their church bishops (if you will) as ‘free choice’ and garnering the ‘church’ astronomical profits by perpetuating the killing and death of innocent babies to the tune of approx. 4,500 per day in the U.S. alone.
It goes further than just being a busine$$. Kate doesn’t even realize that she serves a god – but it is not the One True God – rather she serves the god of child murder and gleefully claps and cheers at the systematic ritual of each and every woman’s offering of her child’s blood sacrifice as she enters into the killing mill. How dreadfully perverted and sad for her. In the Old Testament this god was called Moloch. Through the years child sacrifice has always been the same – the bloodthirsty beast demanding the killing of children as a form of worship. Hence the name of Malachi on our quite ghastly photos (yes, they’re ghastly but heck that’s abortion for you.)
The work in the abortion mills today are our modern day valleys of slaughter. In their demonic RELIGION, (gee I bet you pro-aborts didn’t know you were religious!) the abortionist offers the ritual blood sacrifice to the ancient demon of child murder. As in most religions, this demonic religion also has their dogma which is the cleverly marketed word, “choice” (a euphonism used to take the sting out of what they REALLY mean – murder). Their perverse sacrament is quite simply the abortion itself. Their ruling hierarchy is all the Planned Parenthoods out there (we won’t leave out all you little mom and pop stand alone mills either) Further, they have their theologians (feminist ideologues – Kate that’d be you and your minions or ilk – Ellen, Lucy, Sharon I haven’t forgotten about you don’t worry – or whatever your word for the day is) their priests (abortionists and ghastly clergy supporters of abortion), their temples (of course all those lovely state of the art abortion mills that we read about – some more grisly than others), their altars of sacrifice (the surgical tables – minus the stretchers – we’ve heard from patients at a local mill that they are expected to walk to the recovery room), their victims (the babies and also the moms), acolytes and/or lectors (clinic workers and technicians), guardian angels (police/security, and deathscorts), congregations (leftist foundations and private supporters), and it’s own version of “grace” that covers everything -albeit not always very proportionately – (money) (guess who I’m thinking about hmm? – hint she has red hair and drives a hybrid) ’nuff said – by the way – hope all you guardian angels enjoy your summer picnic and thanks so much for all your help!! LOL
Yeah – I’ll take my Jesus any day. You folks that get your undies all in a wad about being able to kill babies without ‘terrorists’ offering a life line to women about to commit your ‘blood sacrifice of abortion’ deserve one another.
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August 16, 2011 at 1:48 pm
Oh by the way Kate, welcome back! I thought you had taken your toys with you and run home for good. Missed you this am. No worries, since there was no deathscorts there we had a wonderful opportunity to talk with a very lovely young woman uninterrupted and unhindered. Thanks again!
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August 16, 2011 at 2:15 pm
Could you please use a pseudonym?
It is very confusing . .
Tx
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August 16, 2011 at 2:30 pm
I’d say the whole post is confusing…
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August 16, 2011 at 7:20 pm
You’d better say that.
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August 20, 2011 at 8:42 pm
As a matter of fact, I didn’t realize the first time I read it just how powerful that post is too. It also will have to go into my newsletter.
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August 16, 2011 at 2:02 pm
Oh and by the way, Kate, abortion is not a ‘moral issue’ so knock off saying that. This is for the rest of you pro-aborts too so listen up. Abortion is NOT A COMPASSIONATE CHOICE, it is NOT DONE out of LOVE for the baby or for the woman’s other children. Plain and simple – ABORTION IS MURDER AND THE VIOLATION OF THE MOST FUNDAMENTAL HUMAN RIGHT TO LIFE. PERIOD.
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August 16, 2011 at 2:17 pm
The right to control one’s own reproduction is paramount.
Abortion is an essential part of that righteous moral equation.
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August 16, 2011 at 2:29 pm
Thanks for your comments. Of the millions who are prochoice, they see abortion within the full spectrum of reproductive health and they know that abortion is a moral issue.
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August 16, 2011 at 2:25 pm
Well if abortion is not a moral issue, why the heck are you arguing so vociferously, invoking your god, labeling a fetus as a person with comprehensive rights?
Abortion IS a moral issue! Period! I do wish you could wrap your head around the reality that women are moral beings, fully human with all the rights and privileges allowed by law.
You want to call abortion murder, go ahead. But to deny women their own sense of morality is not your call. Judging women as selfish because they choose abortion is a sentiment that reflects on the speaker, a speaker who is narrow-minded, self-righteous and lacking compassion.
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August 16, 2011 at 2:42 pm
Kate, you’re the one shouting from the rooftops – ABORTION ON DEMAND WITHOUT APOLOGY. PERIOD.’ Not me!! Now THAT’S a compassionate and I might add closed minded statement if I ever heard one and reflects on the speaker in a rather pitiful way! I do believe I’ve even heard you pro-aborts sing and chant it at your rally’s. Sickos. THINK about what you are saying — PLEASE. It’s incomprehensible to anyone with a properly formed conscience to even believe you really mean what you say. ‘Let us kill our babies – no apologies. period.’ That’s disgusting.
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August 16, 2011 at 3:28 pm
This cowardly anonymous is wrong as usual.
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August 16, 2011 at 7:23 pm
This cowardly Kate is wrong as usual. (If you want to act like an AI, Kate, that’s how I’ll treat you.)
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August 17, 2011 at 12:59 pm
Oops, another my fault. I looked at “Kitra” and saw “Kate.” Sorry, Kate. I should have realized “nothing statements” are not your thing.
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August 16, 2011 at 2:15 pm
Having a university credential is perceived by these folks as not a sign of credibility, but of a lack of it. In fact, among some antichoicers, evidence of intellectual prowess is treated snidely and as anti-American. The disdain for education and other evidence of being trained in critical thinking are direct threats to a hive-mind mentality, which is why they are so viscerally demeaned.
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August 16, 2011 at 2:49 pm
Kate, not at all. In fact – KUDOS to you for all your credentials! (applause is heard in the background) I can only imagine that they were achieved with the selfless (or ish) drive and determination that you so aptly display out at the killing mill. We’re simply stating that you will stand before the throne of God some day totally NAKED without ANY of your credentials to help you because He will not care about them at all. What he will ask you is ‘What did you to for the least of these to help me?” Unless you repent Kate – your answer, sad to say, is going to be, ‘I helped their mothers end their lives’ because Kate, the least of these are the preborn babies being slaughtered at your precious killing mills. Oh and I might add, you will not have your little chortling minions to surround you like Queen Latifah. You will be ALONE – NAKED AND ALONE!!
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August 16, 2011 at 2:58 pm
What a wild imagination you have —Queen Latifah, totally naked (pervert!), killing mills, preborn babies. Yikes. How about predead prolifers?
And who’s this “we” stuff?
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August 16, 2011 at 4:32 pm
How about this astute quote from Ann Coulter. I think it applies in light of Kate’s ignorant statement above about predead prolifers!
“I don’t really like to think of it as a murder. It was terminating Tiller in the 203rd trimester. … I am personally opposed to shooting abortionists, but I don’t want to impose my moral values on others.” –on the murder of Kansas abortion doctor George Tiller, FOX News interview, June 22, 2009
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August 16, 2011 at 4:57 pm
Another genious
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August 16, 2011 at 4:35 pm
How about the astute comment from Ann Coulter which I believe is aptly printed here in light of Kate’s ignorant comment re: predead prolifers.
“I don’t really like to think of it as a murder. It was terminating Tiller in the 203rd trimester. … I am personally opposed to shooting abortionists, but I don’t want to impose my moral values on others.” –on the murder of Kansas abortion doctor George Tiller, FOX News interview, June 22, 2009
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August 16, 2011 at 7:55 pm
whoever wrote this is a cold-hearted bitch
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August 17, 2011 at 7:49 am
I wish you’d sign a name so I could return the compliment.
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August 16, 2011 at 3:38 pm
I support the right of women to have full determination of their bodies and control of their reproduction.
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August 16, 2011 at 4:58 pm
I support that as well.
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August 16, 2011 at 7:26 pm
Go to it, Remy and A. You guys are really contributing to this discussion.
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August 16, 2011 at 6:43 pm
While at the gates of Hell, Satan congratulates Anonymous for helping ensure that 1.2 million more souls were born every year, most of them destined for Hell….
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August 16, 2011 at 7:32 pm
Wrong again, Chuck. The only ones in danger of Hell are you and I and others who have survived their early months. Ninety-six percent of us survivors will end up there. The other trillion trillion plus will escape the eternal fires. The ball, as they say, is in our court.
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August 17, 2011 at 5:13 am
“Having a university credential is perceived by these folks as not a sign of credibility, but of a lack of it.”
I didn’t want to get into this, Kate, because it can’t help but hurt you, but, as I said above, you do have a knack for self abasement, and sometimes you give me no choice. So here it is:
There are university credentials and there are university credentials. First you have the biologists, the chemists, the historians, the theologians, all those true scientists who have solid credentials.
Then you have the phony scientists, those who attach the word “science” to their field of study in hopes that something legitimate will rub off, like the social scientists and the transgender scientists, and you have the psychologists, the anthropologists, and what not. Your field, the “science of education,” lies at the bottom of the heap. It’s not that you’re stupid, but somehow you got sucked in and now you’re dead. Peruse this please:
Sociology and Other ‘Meathead’ Majors — Archie Bunker was right to be skeptical of his son-in-law’s opinions..
By HARVEY MANSFIELD
In this happy season of college graduations, students and parents will probably not be reflecting on the poor choices those students made in selecting their courses and majors. In colleges today, choice is in and requirements are out. Only the military academies, certain Great-Books colleges and MIT (and its like) want to tell students what they must study. Most colleges offer a cornucopia of choices, and most of the choices are bad.
The bad choices are more attractive because they are easy. Picking not quite at random, let’s take sociology. That great American democrat Archie Bunker used to call his son-in-law “Meathead” for his fatuous opinions, and Meathead was a graduate student in sociology. A graduate student in sociology is one who didn’t get his fill of jargonized wishful thinking as an undergraduate. Such a person will never fail to disappoint you. But sociology has close competitors in other social sciences (including mine, political science) and in the humanities.
Part of the problem is the political correctness responsible for “Gender Studies,” a politicized major that has its little echoes in many other departments, and that never fails to mislead.
More fundamental, however, is the division within the university today, in America and everywhere, between science and the humanities. Science deals with facts but the humanities also have to deal with values. This is where the problem of bad choices arises. We think that one can have knowledge of fact but not of values—the famous “fact/value” distinction.
Science has knowledge of fact, and this makes it rigorous and hard. The humanities have their facts bent or biased by values, and this makes them lax and soft. This fact—or is it a value?—gives confidence and reputation to scientists within the university. Everyone respects them, and though science is modest because there is always more to learn, scientists sometimes strut and often make claims for extra resources. Some of the rest of us glumly concede their superiority and try to sell our dubious wares in the street, like gypsies. We are the humanists.
Others try to imitate the sciences and call themselves “social scientists.” The best imitators of scientists are the economists. Among social scientists they rank highest in rigor, which means in mathematics. They also rank highest in boastful pretension, and you can lose more money listening to them than by trying to read books in sociology. Just as Gender Studies taints the whole university with its sexless fantasies, so economists infect their neighbors with the imitation science they peddle. (Game theorists, I’m talking about you.)
Now the belief that there can be no knowledge of values means that all values are equally unsupported, which means that in the university all departments are equal. All courses are also equal; no requirements can be justified as fundamental or more important. Choice is king, except that there can be no king.
It’s no wonder, then, that students make poor choices, avoiding difficult courses, stumbling into easy ones, embracing counterfeit majors. One might hope that with common sense they could learn from experience, but according to the fact-value distinction, experience cannot be shown to give one better judgment. There is no “better” judgment. That’s what colleges teach their students these days.
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August 16, 2011 at 2:26 pm
Gobbledy gook, blah, blah, blah, yadda yadda
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August 16, 2011 at 2:54 pm
Spoken like a true pro-abort.
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August 16, 2011 at 3:29 pm
?????
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August 16, 2011 at 7:37 pm
Kitty, Vern said, “Gobbledy gook, blah, blah, blah, yadda yadda.” A said, “Spoken like a true pro-abort.” A means that Vern is a true pro-abort because he talks nonsense. See? — Pro-aborts talk nonsense.
What else can I help you out with?
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August 16, 2011 at 3:30 pm
Update on impact of protesters:
Contraception
Volume 84, Issue 3, September 2011, Page 303
Effect of clinic protesters on women’s emotional response to abortion
D. Foster, R. Barar, H. Gould and T. Weitz
Objectives
Little is known about how antiabortion protesters affect women’s experience with abortion. This study seeks to understand who experiences and is upset by protesters and how protesters affect emotional response to an abortion.
Methods
Between 2008 and 2010, 725 women who received an abortion at 25 sites across the United States were interviewed 1 week after their appointment as part of the Turnaway Study.
Results
Nearly half (49%) of women saw a protester; 29% reported being spoken to, and 17% reported that protesters tried to stop them from entering the clinic. Women under age 20, African American women and Latinas were twice as likely as other women to report protesters attempting to stop them from entering a clinic. Among those who saw a protester, nearly half reported that they were not at all upset, 25% reported being a little upset, 15% were “quite a lot” or “extremely” upset. Women who had difficulty deciding about the abortion were more likely to report being upset by protesters. In both bivariate and multivariate models, seeing, being spoken to and being stopped by protesters are not associated with differences in regret, relief, guilt, happiness, sadness or anger 1 week after their appointment.
Conclusions
Protesters do upset some women seeking abortion services. However, the effect of exposure to protesters does not seem to have an effect on emotions toward the abortion 1 week later.
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August 16, 2011 at 7:42 pm
Can we please get away from this nonsense: “15% were quite a lot or extremely upset. ”
Some of you killers’ helpers say we upset everyone; Kate here says a small minority. Get your acts together! On the other hand, keep contradicting yourselves. Makes the path to sanity easier.
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August 16, 2011 at 5:10 pm
Pro Lifers are scum.
Your FaceBook page Rules!!!!
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August 16, 2011 at 7:43 pm
Wrong, Charles is scum.
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