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July 1, 2010 at 6:26 am
Beatrice, ggogle “aborticentrism” to get to the heart of the so-called “pro-life” movement. I am not famous, but can only hope that the recognition of the aborticentric nature of that movement outlives my brief time on this planet. In this way I will live forever, just like they want to!
Kingsmen in #8– watch out for Dunkle: If you give him a hint as to how to find Pat (the blogger on Abortion.com), he’ll start stalking her.
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July 1, 2010 at 7:51 pm
Charles, didn’t you suggest Pat might be a gay? Do gays mind being called her?
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July 2, 2010 at 8:01 am
OK, Did not get it all but makes sense what I did.
Why not post some here? Looks like you have a popular spot here.
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July 2, 2010 at 8:02 am
John,
you say the silliest things.
What are you talking about, your posts make no sense, are you even talking about abortion ever?
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July 2, 2010 at 10:27 am
Usually I am but here no. Pat won’t say if she’s a he or not. I speculated a she because of the quality of the writing, and Charles speculated gay — you know, more sensitive. Does that help?
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July 4, 2010 at 9:53 pm
What are you talking about?
Are you OK, seriously, I feel like we should call a doctor, you’re brain sounds fried!
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July 2, 2010 at 5:25 am
Ask a gay. If Pat minds, he’s being very professional about it. And I don’t think she’s going to rise to your bait. You’re going to have to deal with Pat as a person, not as a gender.
I wonder if perhaps the concern you’re showing might not be another aspect of the male self-proclaimed “pro-lifer.” Intending to deal with women as sexual beings who need to be controlled, those males need the certainty of knowing they’re dealing with a woman in every situation….
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July 2, 2010 at 10:28 am
Oh my gosh.
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July 2, 2010 at 4:39 pm
I’ll tell you one thing, boys. I’m not gay. Indeed, I’m quite the heterosexual….
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July 3, 2010 at 10:27 am
Well, that reduces your chances of being stalked by John by 50%. . .
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July 3, 2010 at 12:59 pm
Dono about that. I’ll bet some of those baby killers are hetero.
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July 4, 2010 at 9:57 pm
CG, that was funny.
What is the deal with stalkers like JD you have a periodic routine of harassment? For years?
A guy that supports murdering doctors, yet the authorities do nothing?
I just …. What am I missing.
Guys like him just killed Dr.Tiller a year ago,
And they joke, burn the flag, think it’s funny, have website hit lists . . . What am I missing?
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July 6, 2010 at 5:06 pm
common sense
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July 2, 2010 at 8:08 am
John,
are Homosexual people one person . . .
are Heterosexuals?
They all have different minds and attitudes.
Let’s talk like you now . . .
Are you a hermaphrodite?
What do you prefer to be called?
You do not appear to be able to reproduce even if you have both pair of gametes in your body.
I saw a Volkswagon, the other day, let’s murder doctor’s Let’s torture prolifer’s, I am John Dunkle, I speak like the Joker, I am so witty,
People are astounded.
John,
you seem like an intelligent person who just cannot bare the reality of being wrong.
That is so sad. Did Satan drip his venom on you?
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July 2, 2010 at 10:29 am
ditto
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July 4, 2010 at 9:58 pm
Again, no sense? Could someone translate for this retard?
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July 2, 2010 at 10:29 am
I mean ditto for “oh my gosh.”
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July 4, 2010 at 9:59 pm
What does ” Gosh” mean?
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July 2, 2010 at 10:51 am
For all~~ The introduction from the blog on aboricentrism:
A syndrome is a combination of phenomena seen in association. In the field of psychiatry, the presence of one trait will prompt the doctor to determine if other traits are associated with it in a way that indicates the existence of a pathology.
The “pro-life” movement displays one unusual trait– an extremely restrictive definition of the range of life it will care for– that indicates the possible existence of a syndrome, the “pro-life syndrome.” It can be summarized like this:
“The closer human life gets to being the “pro-lifer’s” responsibility,
the less sacred it becomes.”
A psychopathology (clinical study of the movement) is in order to determine why such a syndrome exists, and what it means for its members, its intended “rescuees” and society at large.
Cognitive dissonance– the ability to make an illogical choice to remain discomfited in an embarrassing, stultifying or harmful situation is another trait that would indicate the presence of a syndrome. Its members, despite embarrassing evidence to the contrary, always and everywhere choose life, even when it results in great harm.
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September 2, 2010 at 11:00 pm
your posts, even if i disagree, are always very thought provoking, chuckles.
i have been visiting aborticentrism, and am learning how to navigate it, and even have it bookmarked.
some of the issues that i have with my own camp, as a lifer, i learned from listening to choicers. and some of them, i have by my own self-examination.
you validate quite a bit of the issues that i have.
out of curiosity, do you ever write about other aspects of the “life issue”?
for instance euthanasia, or embryonic stem cell research or the death penalty?
i would love to hear your opinions on those topics.
when someone speaks of “respect for life”, most pro-lifers automatically think of a baby in utero.
but i believe that there are other aspects to human life that have just as much value and purpose. ever notice that a lot of lifers are pro- death penalty? :-S
even if we disagree on some stances, i would love to read your thoughts on those topics.
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July 2, 2010 at 12:25 pm
Will you get off this pop psychology, Charles, (and of course all psychology is pop). This charge, that we are otherwise uncaring, was leveled at us pro-lifers probably before you were born, and the only careful study I ever read found that we have adopted, foster cared, given to charity — in other words outdistanced others in every way “humanity” is measured. This is just your way of avoiding the issue.
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July 4, 2010 at 10:03 pm
As a psychologist at a respected major University,
John Dunkle you are speaking without knowledge.
You harm people that way.
All psychology is not Pop.
Dunkle tell me your familiarity with SPSS.
You could only find one study, well there it is. You define your own immense ignorance!
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July 6, 2010 at 5:14 pm
Look, Carrie, I hate to break this to you, but you got took. Psychology is supposed to figure out what people are like. Shakespeare, Dante, Tolstoy, James, the Bible, Austin, Updike, Roth, Bronte, et al. — that’s where you find out what people are like. Psychology is a phony study dreamed up by and for people who are not able, or who have not tried, to understand the masters. It’s not the only phony study they serve up in college, but it’s the most damaging. Well, the most damaging after “Education.”
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July 2, 2010 at 3:44 pm
Sorry, John, but at a personal level you haven’t demonstrated anywhere near the passion and concern for born children as you’ve demonstrated for the unborn– that is a very disturbing gap. And at that level, you represent a vast majority of the so-called “pro-lifers.”
My citations for the rate of adoption for “pro-lifers” comes from Seaton’s Activism and Altruism, and he has citations for that. Where do you data come from?
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July 2, 2010 at 9:05 pm
Your first paragraph, Charles, has to be either incredibly naive or simply grotesque. What born children are being tortured to death legally? A million and a half children are being tortured to death before they are born, many of them probably right around where you live. And still you find fault with the few of us who do a little bit about it? You’re the pop psychology expert, Charles. Let me hear your analysis of someone who could write that first paragraph.
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July 3, 2010 at 10:21 am
YOu don’t really do anything about it, John. You try to shame a woman into having a child that you you have nothing to do with! I am bothered by the fact that 50% of children do not have their biological father in the family, and most of those don’t have a good male role model– which means very high male juvenile delinquency rates in America.
What this means at the clinic level is that during the 36 seconds you have to try frighten, shame or humiliate a woman in front of a clinic, there are TWO chlldren being born in America who need a male role model (i.e., YOU), but you are not there for them.
I’ve tried to be, and I haven’t been that good at it, but at least I’ve done more than you have– and it’s not because you wouldn’t if you could, but you CAN’T. You are so focused on this fairy taie of “millions of chiildren being tortured to death” that you don’t have the ability to meet the needs of real children.
It’s the “pro-life” curse. Welcome to it.
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July 3, 2010 at 10:41 am
Charles, stop telling us how great you are. Explain the horrible thing you are doing — aiding and abetting in the annual murders of a million and a half young people.
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July 3, 2010 at 10:43 am
go to #31, john
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July 4, 2010 at 10:06 pm
Very good CG, I am impressed.
This John fellow is just not an intelligent person. I don’t know why people bother with him.
CG congrats, looks like you have quite a successful blog!
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July 2, 2010 at 3:49 pm
Beatrice, you sound like the sort of person who’d have the energy and the drive to take a video camera out to a so-called “pro-life” demonstration and interview them to ask: “Are you an adoptive parent? A foster parent? A family court or social services guardian ad litem for children? A Big Brother or Big Sister? A parenting center volunteer staffer? An unpaid volunteer in public school classrooms?”
Asking them this exposes the contrast between their fantasy as a “rescuer” and their inability to commit to children not of their kin, social class or religion, but whom they wanted somebody else to love.
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July 2, 2010 at 4:41 pm
CG, if they say they’ve adopted a child, then in your mind is it okay for them to be pro-life?
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July 3, 2010 at 10:25 am
No, Pat. It is not being responsibly “pro-life” unless they pledge to raise to adulthood every “uborn human” they want “rescued.” Until they make that pledge, they’re playing with a fantasty– see Dunkle, above.
The closest I will come to backing off someone who calls herself “pro-life” would be an acquaintance who has adopted or is fostering 12 kids– but I’ve never heard her call herself “pro-life.” She sees herself as being able to help kids who need help.
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July 3, 2010 at 10:47 am
John, there is nothing in my treatise on aborticentrism that advocates abortion– if you can find any statement that even IMPLIES it, I will pay you handsomely!
The entire site deals with the need to care for children who are born and the weird mindset of people who want them to be born but won’t care for them. The bit about millions of “children being tortured to death” is just another variation of the “I’m a hero” schtick that so-called “pro-lifers” need to live by. As I point out at the site, it’s sad, but it’s something they are compelled to do– they can’t care for that next child! Look at you!
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July 3, 2010 at 12:55 pm
I’m not talking about your website, Charles. I told you that blew me away after thirty-seven seconds! I’m talking about here. Don’t you take the pro-death side of this argument? Have I missed something?
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July 4, 2010 at 10:06 am
Yes, you have missed something, John, and you miss it because you can’t afford to face it. When wants a child to be born, one has an obligation to care for it You did that with the five children you wanted in your family, but you don’t acknowledge the obligation you have to all those other children who have been born as a result of your clinic blockade work.
There are two possible reasons for it– one is that you are a psychopath who enjoys terrifying and humiliating those who are weaker, and calling yourself “pro-life” gives you a convenient cover.
The other is that you are working out in a classical way (first identified by Freud) your own resolution of the problem you have in knowing that you’re going to die. Your problem has several components:
1. Your religious faith, although loudly proclaimed, is actually too weak to sustain you in your struggle to accept your departure from the known world.
2. You therefore seek to use the fetus to represent yourself, and you “rescue” it from “Abortion.” Abortion represents Death, and of course you play the part of God.
The reasons that you miss my argument:
A. Your struggle to prove your ability to transcend Death is so important it cannot risk being destroyed by new evidence (such as that he who wants a child born had better want to nurture it).
B. Your struggle is so all-consuming you don’t have the emotional reserves to actually care for a child, and
C. You don’t have the psychological resources to commit to meeting needs that you don’t define.
Now, it is quite likely that you are going to tell me you don’t understand the above, but by doing so you are confirming the thesis! As an aborticentric, your focus on abortion is so strong that it precludes care for human life!
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July 4, 2010 at 5:52 pm
I didn’t miss your argument accidentally, Charles. I missed it deliberately. I never could get more than three sentences into it before I felt the need to breathe. All I’m trying to find out is this: do you want the laws to remain intact that permit some people to kill others? Or are you like me and want the law to protect the lives of everyone.
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July 4, 2010 at 10:10 pm
CG,
You are right,
This Dunkle person is wrong.
He continually reveals his ignorance why do people bother with wasting the time to talk to him?
Dunkle, you have already said, as I have read that it is OK to break to law for your ends.
Murder? Your kind are the murderers.
What doctors do is legal?
I implore you, get some help!
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July 5, 2010 at 8:20 am
Carrie, not only is it OK to break some laws, it is necessary to break them. One of those laws is that which permits some people to carry others into a building where the latter will be tortured to death. This is not the first time it was mandatory to break certain laws. When the laws permitted European-Americans to kill African-Americans, they too had to be broken, and when they permitted Gentiles to kill Jews.
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July 6, 2010 at 8:41 am
Mr Dunkle, I’m a little concerned about your post where you say it is necessary to break some laws. I have a family and dont want to be thrown in jail. What laws are you saying we need to break? I’m really torn by this and seek your expert guidance….
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July 6, 2010 at 5:30 pm
The laws that protect the facilities and the people involved in the holocaust. I’m too scared to break them too but I’m worse off than you because my family is on their own.
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July 5, 2010 at 10:12 am
John, being against killing is not enough! Reconsider the message behind the story of the Gadarene swine– what does it help for a man to purify his house, only to have move in spirits that are worse than those he eradicated? Due to somebody’s concern for the unborn, Ted Bundy was born at a home for unwed mothers– a classic example of good intentions not going far enough, just as yours don’t.
However, I don’t hold it against you, because you are struggling against inner forces you don’t understand.
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July 5, 2010 at 10:23 am
Dang, Charles, how you talk. Of course being against killing is not enough. Nothing’s ever enough. But being against it is better than being for it! Know where your logic leads? It leads to plunging the knife yourself into someone who needs help because you are unwilling or unable to provide that help.
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July 5, 2010 at 8:10 pm
Abraham,
A real genius,
Willing to plunge a knife into his baby.
Would you do that John if those voices told you to?
Or if you were called up to take the the role as the next martyr as you referred to earlier?
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July 6, 2010 at 5:27 pm
I wouldn’t do it. I’d be too scared.
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July 6, 2010 at 6:17 am
One of my favorite jokes: “Why did God tell Abraham to make a sacrifice of his 12-year-old son?”
“Because if he’d been 13, it wouldn’t have been a sacrifice.”
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July 5, 2010 at 10:09 am
Carrie, if you’re in the field, you could perhaps do me a favor and find a student who needs to do a paper. The field of Aborticentrism Studies is as yet undsicovered. Some grad student would probably be able to make a name for him/herself…
And thanks for the compliment!
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July 6, 2010 at 5:26 pm
Now that I just found out Carrie is in the field of psychology, I’ll bet she can find a hundred.
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July 7, 2010 at 5:30 am
People have their own lives, John. The subject of aborticentrism is not going to mesh with what they want or what they need.
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July 5, 2010 at 10:25 am
Oh my gosh, run, Carrie, run. If Charles catches you, you’re dead.
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July 5, 2010 at 8:12 pm
What?
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July 5, 2010 at 10:27 am
John in #34– there are at least 61 mothers out there who I think would rather have seen the lives of their daughters rather than that of
Ted Bundy saved. You need to be more thorough in helping those you want to “rescue.”
Take the pledge of RESPONSIBLE Right to Life (my organization): “I pledge to raise to adulthood every ‘unborn human’ I want ‘rescued.’ ” What’s wrong with that?
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July 5, 2010 at 12:08 pm
What’s wrong with it is so very obvious, Charles. Suppose your life were threatened. Suppose someone who might be able to save you won’t do it because then he would be responsible to see you through adulthood. Make sense?
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July 5, 2010 at 3:57 pm
John, that would only make sense if he had wanted to see me born in the first place. Why he should feel responsible for the rest of my life simply by virtue of having pulled me from a burning car is a totally different thing.
Why shouldn’t you be responsible for the welfare of the children you want to see born? After all, you may be the only person who wants them…
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July 6, 2010 at 11:09 am
Suppose the guy who pulled from the burning car is the only one who wants you1 Or suppose nobody wants you!
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July 6, 2010 at 12:58 pm
John, you’re not answering the question; in fact, you’re trying to appeal to my egotism to draw my attention away from the fact that you’re not answering it.
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July 6, 2010 at 5:24 pm
The question is, Why do you want to save someone’s life if you are not going to support him for the rest of his life? My answer is because it’s the human, not the ghoulish, thing to do.
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July 7, 2010 at 5:28 am
No, John, the question was, ‘Why shouldn’t you be responsible for the welfare of the children you want to see born? After all, you may be the only person who wants them.. . .” What’s your problem with it?
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July 7, 2010 at 9:41 pm
I have no problem with it. On the contrary I just love to see you write things like “the children you want to see born.” No humanoids now Charles. See what happens when you forget your agenda? You become human yourself.
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July 8, 2010 at 5:35 am
see my reply on #3 on the next page, John.
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July 5, 2010 at 8:19 pm
John,
You are famous!
I just saw you on the
Abortion.com Facebook page!
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July 6, 2010 at 11:12 am
Facebook is something I can’t handle. I signed up, and people write me all the time, but I’ve never been able to read what they’ve written. Can’t handle texting, ipods, and blackbirds either.
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July 6, 2010 at 11:18 am
I saw you on FAcebook also! You gotta get on and get your buddies to sign up with “abortion.com” They’re all talking about you over there.
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July 6, 2010 at 4:54 pm
If you say so.
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July 6, 2010 at 5:21 pm
Went there. Same thing happened. Signed in. Saw comments by lots of people I know, none of them talking to me. Saw nothing about me.
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July 7, 2010 at 6:25 am
You gotta hit the like button once signed in,
And you can comment, be the voice of reason.
That’s where I heard of you.
It’s no more difficult than what you do here
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July 7, 2010 at 1:07 pm
Thanks, George. I’ll give it another try.
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