This page is dedicated to the Pro Life violence of John Dunkle,
We do not agree, but in the spirit of discourse, here it is,
Please opine.
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July 28, 2010 at 5:34 pm
To quote from post 20 on the previous page: “So, Bruce, I still haven’t heard from you whether your new endeavor is more rewarding than caring for another young human life.”
You’re so cute when you play obtuse, John….. At least, I hope it’s not Alzheimer’s showing its ugly head.
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July 29, 2010 at 8:58 am
What I got from Bruce’s response that it is both rewarding to be a father AND to stalk. As he said, he can multi-task….
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July 29, 2010 at 1:13 pm
Bruce is not addressing the relative merits of the two endeaavors if he is saying they’re both rewarding. Of course they’re both rewarding, but I asked him to COMPARE how they’re rewarding in their different ways. And I get this big void for a response, once he gets past the sarcasm….
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July 28, 2010 at 8:21 pm
Remember those high schoolers on Pat’s blog here who never got past, “You’re realy f_____ stupid”? You’re getting like them, Charles. Come on now, cut the insults.
To the question — Bruce’s new endeavor is saving lives. Caring, then, for those you’ve saved is impossible. First of all, you don’t even know who they are! We pro-lifers try to do what we can.
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July 29, 2010 at 9:01 am
I’m sure he will ultimately speak for himself, but I think Bruce will say that he is saving lives AND raising his child at the same time.
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July 29, 2010 at 5:17 am
Well, then, John, I suppose we have to thank Ted Bundy’s grandparents for “rescuing” him.
Yet, they did nothing to prevent him from growing up a neglected and abused child whose psychological outlook and undiagnosed ADD led him to kill between 35 and 61 young women.
What if Bruce “saves” the life of the next Bundy or Zodiac Killer, which in turn causes the deaths of another fifty women?
Meanwhile, your answer isn’t his, nor was it addressing both aspects of the question.
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July 29, 2010 at 6:26 am
Oh Geeze, “both aspects of the question”! Will you get off Ted Bundy; try Lenny Bruce or somebody. Course my answer isn’t his. If you want to talk person to person, go private the way we did. Meanwhile, on this public blog, comments are wide open.
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July 29, 2010 at 6:45 am
I wonder what Lenny Bruce would have said!
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July 29, 2010 at 1:15 pm
So, you slide by the question I pose about the next Bundy or Zodiac Killer? What a finesse!
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July 29, 2010 at 4:09 pm
Question: “Why would you save the life of someone who might turn out to be the next Ted Bundy.”
Answer: “I would try to save anybody’s life. That he might turn out to be the next Ted Bundy is not only irrelevant, it is impossible to know!”
Conclusion: You’ve used this argument twelve times, Charles. Please don’t make it thirteen.
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July 29, 2010 at 5:45 pm
Aborticentrism offers the best of all worlds for the would-be hero, the so-called “pro-lifer.” If the child he insisted be born turns out to be a world-class physicist, the so-called “pro-lifer” takes as much credit as anybody.
If on the other hand, the child grows up to be the next Ted Bundy, the so-called “pro-lifer” says it was the will of God, part of God’s inscrutable plan for all of us.
In neither case is the would-be hero required to sacrifice his time, his money, his talents or his future plans to help the baby make it safely to a productive adulthood. Which has been so amply demonstrated by you, John, over all these years…..
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July 30, 2010 at 4:08 am
I would try to save anybody’s life. That she might turn out to be Mother Theresa or Bella Abzug is not only irrelevant, it is impossible to know.
Now I’m confused, Charles. Maybe your problem is literacy.
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July 30, 2010 at 5:39 am
That’s exactly it, John! Not the literacy, but your single-mindedness in “rescuing.” It’s just the sort of mindset– the focus on the process and not on the context in which it is done– that makes monstrosity possible. Imagine that you are in a special Army unit, and your job is to pour crystals down a tube. Your commander stresses that the fate of our country depends on you doing your job at exactly the moment the signal is given, and that it is important you carry out the work in precisely the manner you have been taught. ( Rather like standing in front of a clinic, reciting the given prayers, observing the ritual of engagement as taught and rehearsed.)
So you stand alert for the signal, you pour the crystals into the tube at the command, and you salute to indicate you’ve done your job. You don’t ponder the consequences of what it is you’re doing– and underfoot a room full of Jewish civilians is gassed to death.
Ignoring the future needs of “unborn human” you think you are “rescuing” is just that sort of mindlessness. I don’t think the parents of Bundy’s victims look kindly upon your lack of wisdom.
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July 30, 2010 at 2:43 pm
I feel another “would you let a stranger have your dog” coming on. Charles, when the topic is baby killing, you become one confusing and confused individual.
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July 30, 2010 at 3:31 pm
Sinclair Lewis: “You can’t make a man understand when his paycheck depends on not understanding.” Your reward in your endeavors depends on your not understanding, John. That’s what makes aborticentrism so difficult to cure.
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July 29, 2010 at 8:30 pm
Why stalk someone at their home?
Why humiliate and terrorize her, her children and neighbors?
What do you think could be going on inside their home that would merit that?
If you are compelled to do this, why don’t you do these things in front of the abortion clinics instead? The acts that you take issue with are going on there, not in this woman’s home.
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July 30, 2010 at 4:13 am
I go to both places, SB, but here they squeal louder. That should tell you something.
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July 30, 2010 at 8:10 am
Actually, they don’t “squeal” at all, John, and you know it. Indeed, I’ll be you anything that you rarely see the folks whose houses you are protesting in front of. They know you’re coming on a certain day and certain time, so they plan on not being there, going out and actually contributing to society….You’re protesting to an empty house….
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July 30, 2010 at 2:49 pm
I didn’t mean “they” in the houses, I meant “they” you — the killers’ helpers. Nothing else I do causes more killers’ helpers’ vitriol to pour on my head. Just read this blog: “you do what!” “you terrorize that professional killers’ helper?” That makes what to do in this war an easy call.
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July 30, 2010 at 9:12 am
You still haven’t said what is going on in their homes that you are compelled to protest.
What of the people that you take no issue with, being the recipients of negative effects of your conduct?
When you protest in front of someone’s home, it’s not just them that it affects.
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July 31, 2010 at 10:38 am
Sugar Britches, see my response on the next page.
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July 30, 2010 at 3:02 pm
SB, the following is on a sheet I give to passers-by when I visit killers’ homes. Read it first and then ask me questions, one at a time, please:
I’m John Dunkle from Reading. I come here for a prayer vigil on the fourth Sunday of every month from about 11:30 till noon because Charles Benjamin lives in the house I am standing in front of.
Charles is called an abortionist by those who want to keep abortion legal and a baby-killer by those who want to make that practice again illegal. Since 1970 I have been holding prayer vigils outside the homes of baby-killers like Charles. I have been successful, though not often, in persuading them to help people, as they became medical doctors to do, rather than kill them.
I welcome your stopping to talk to me or calling me (484-706-4375) for any reason. I also invite you to join me here or at several other places where I hold prayer vigils. If you accept the invitation, you must promise to abide by the guidelines.
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July 31, 2010 at 10:06 am
While i am sure that you are very proud of the “sheet” that you give out, you did not answer the questions.
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July 31, 2010 at 10:07 am
What is going on in their homes that you are compelled to protest?
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July 31, 2010 at 10:12 am
Nothing, I think, in their homes. It’s what they do outside their homes.
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July 31, 2010 at 10:47 am
Then why protest at a place where there is nothing that you take issue with?
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August 7, 2010 at 4:18 am
I take issue with the person who lives there.
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August 7, 2010 at 8:43 am
Why do you take issue with the person, rather than what it is that they do?
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July 31, 2010 at 10:08 am
What of the people that you take no issue with, being the recipients of negative effects of your conduct?
When you protest in front of someone’s home, it’s not just them that it affects.
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July 31, 2010 at 10:19 am
You kind of mangled this question, SB. First I’ll rephrase it and then answer the rephrased question. If that’s not satisfactory, try again.
Question: When you protest the way you do, John, you upset lots of neighbors, neutral people who have no stake in this issue. Are you comfortable with upsetting them too?
Answer: I am, SB, because every citizen has a stake in a law that allows some people to kill others. Those who try to stay away from the issue, are actually more guilty than those who get involved.
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July 31, 2010 at 10:50 am
Actually, I did not mangle the question, I would venture to say that you did not like the question and wanted it rephrased.
That would have been simple enough for you to remedy.
But be that as it may, given the answer that you gave, that those who remain neutral, and that you believe that you are on a mission from your god, why not protest in front of churches that are not involved with your protests?
Surely as your fellow christians they should have the same stakes as you do in this.
Why not protest that they remain neutral?
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July 31, 2010 at 10:35 am
“Those who try to stay away from the issue, are actually more guilty than those who get involved.”
What he’s saying, Sugar Britches, is he’s not aiming to protect his “pre-born humans” as much as he’s trying to win the favor of the non-committed.
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July 31, 2010 at 10:53 am
He may say that he is trying to save unborn humans, or trying to win the favor of the uncommitted, but personally, I fail to see how he does either one in front of someone’s home.
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July 31, 2010 at 10:09 am
How is carrying signs that have the purpose of demeaning and humiliating a person to their family and neighbors. a prayer vigil?
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July 31, 2010 at 10:20 am
I pray while I’m doing it.
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July 31, 2010 at 10:53 am
What is it you say to your god when you do this?
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July 31, 2010 at 3:10 pm
Our Father who art in heaven hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us, but lead us not into temptation and deliver us from evil, amen. And other things.
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July 31, 2010 at 11:02 pm
And you believe that “as we forgive those who tresspass against us…” doesn’t conflict with “A killer lives here” that is directed at the families of the people that you take issue with?
They deserve condemnation for loving someone that you disagree with?
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August 7, 2010 at 4:21 am
I don’t condemn, SB. I’m not God! I warn.
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July 31, 2010 at 10:09 am
What exactly is it that you pray for?
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July 31, 2010 at 10:22 am
First, I pray that the babies the killer will dispatch in the coming weeks will suffer less, and second, I pray that the killer may return to the practice of healing.
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July 31, 2010 at 11:04 pm
And a spirit of condemnation is conducive to the prayers that you offer?
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August 5, 2010 at 11:11 am
“spirit of condemnation”! I pray for everyone, SB. For example, I pray that you be celibate since that is what you sexual inclination requires.
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August 6, 2010 at 1:39 pm
Why would my sexual orientation require that I be celibate?
I was born gay. Why should I refrain from sex, whereas a person who was born straight shouldn’t?
Are you suggesting that I aspire to the priesthood???
I’m not Catholic.
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August 6, 2010 at 5:58 pm
“Catholic” is not a law unto itself, SB. Catholic is God’s voice here on earth. You should refrain from sex the same way I should have before I was married at 26 — voluntary sexual activity outside of marriage is verboten.
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August 7, 2010 at 1:21 am
Ok, so once he and I are married, it is fine?
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July 31, 2010 at 10:47 am
Sugar Britches, I am translating the Dunkle message about the man he is stalking so you can get a better idea of where these aborticentrics come from:
“I’m John Dunkle from Reading. I come here for a prayer vigil on the fourth Sunday
of every month from about 11:30 till noon because Charles Benjamin lives in the
house I am standing in front of.
Charles is called an abortionist by those who want to keep abortion legal and a
baby-killer by those who want to make that practice again illegal. Since 1970 I
have been holding prayer vigils outside the homes of baby-killers–”
translation: “A fetus is a BABY. I am trying to SAVE BABIES.”
“– like Charles. I have been successful, though not often, in persuading them to help people, as they
became medical doctors to do [this last clause is unclear], rather than kill them.
I welcome your stopping to talk to me–
Translation: “I want your attention! I don’t want you to adopt a child or care in any other way for any child you didn’t want born; I want you to talk to me!”
“– or calling me (484-706-4375) for any reason.–
translation: “I need you to validate the worth of my existence by personally attending to me.”
“– I also invite you to join me here or at several other places where I hold prayer vigils.–
Translation: “I am a very religious man. If you are a very religious person, you will do as I suggest. If you do not, then you are not a very religious person at all.”
“–If you accept the invitation, you must promise to abide by the guidelines.”
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July 31, 2010 at 3:14 pm
This is the third of Charles’s endlessly repeated arguments for the extension of legal baby killing: you may not try to save anyone’s life unless you are willing to care for that person till death.
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July 31, 2010 at 11:10 pm
Do you not see the logic in that argument?
Do you think that protesting in front of a person’s home and hurting their families as well as them, saves more babies than taking in a woman with an unplanned pregnancy, perhaps in an abusive situation, where every door to her is closed?
The attention that you gain with your acts, saves more babies than opening doors to the women that seek abortions?
Shaming a person’s children saves more babies than offering to foster a woman and or her baby until she can get on her feet?
You really believe that your god wants you to do that?
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August 1, 2010 at 4:34 am
I didn’t get past the first sentence, SB. The answer is no.
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August 1, 2010 at 3:21 pm
LOL
Why is that? Scared someone else would be getting attention that you want for yourself?
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August 2, 2010 at 5:51 am
Sugar Britches, obviously you don’t understand how important it is to be a hero in order to work for your eternal salvation! That’s why he didn’t get past the first sentence. He cannot be distracted from his true goal– verifying his own worth in God’s eyes.
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August 2, 2010 at 5:47 am
Sugar Britches, you can’t ask a so-called “pro-lifer” to help others pursue the good life, to love and care for others on their terms, especially children, who need so much in order to acquire the tools and values that will make it possible for them to work toward a happy and fulfilling life. For him, the focus is on violence, death, horror– as it has to be, as long as he is driven by his aborticentrism.
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July 31, 2010 at 1:35 pm
Sugar: John THINKS that by standing outside the doctor’s home, disturbing the serenity of his neighborhood, it will cause the doctor to finally give up his practice, that he will surrender to John’s subtle form of “terrorism.” But at the end of the day, John knows in his heart that he is not having any effect. He just goes out there to get away from him home, to hopefully become the center of attention in some other venue. It gives him a purpose for living. And, indeed, I support his right to do it – it’s free, albeit silly, speech.
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July 31, 2010 at 3:04 pm
Except for saying it’s my right to do it, this sounds like another my wife ghost-wrote. Did she, Pat?
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August 1, 2010 at 11:49 am
I’ve never talked to her, John, but would love to meet her! I get the sense she doesn’t like what she does but then isn’t that what wives are supposed to do, i.e., criticize their husbands? 🙂
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August 1, 2010 at 4:52 pm
not criticize, obey
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August 2, 2010 at 5:49 am
Being an MCP is almost a requirement for being a so-called “pro-lifer.”
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August 2, 2010 at 5:59 am
From John’s sub-post at #2: I only propose a test of how much a person cares for another’s life. What sort of idiot would let a toddler gambol at the edge of an abyss? Dunkle says, “I have gotten the child born; my job is done,” and refuses to pull the child back from the edge and keep it from endangering itself. So, I have proven a point– there is caring FOR life, which he requires all wemen, but not himself, to do, and there is caring ABOUT life, which he does excellently for his own purposes.
I would like to point out that there is no place in any of my writings where I insist on abortion– it is a stance he has invented for me in order to keep his fight simple.
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